Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

186183 · May 27, 2014

ilaughlast said:
im listening. do you have lab results that show a positive test for tmv. you should post the results with the identifying info blurred out as others have claimed it to be not found yet in cannabis other than a few very rare instances. skunk pharm research claimed that theyve only ever seen 1 plant shown to test positive for tmv.others say theyve never seen it. your test result would be a helpful indication that it is actually happening.

Hi, yes I already

Greyskull said:
please share the lab results

an "official document" is way better than sharing experience (not discounting experience at all)

there have been lots of "I had stuff tested... it came back XXYYZZ" but I haven't had the satisfaction of seeing a lab doc... which is weird because when buds and oils get tested dudes throw up pics of the results on the quick. hahaha

ANYONE WITH OFFICIAL RESULTS DOCUMENTATION PLEASE POST IT UP

not trying to put you on the spot 186183 homie

No problem brother I understand. We are all just trying to get real info. The results are on the second page of this thread I believe.

186183 · May 27, 2014

Make that the third page.

Aladeen OG · May 27, 2014

Dorje said:
I don't think the tmv issue is irrelevant, there may be more than one contributing factor to this issue.

all i meant by saying that was people we on to something here with downwithdirt saying he had them tested in a lab, so to throw anything else is sure, a possibility, but until someone throws up that proof like greyskulls saying, i meant we should stay on track. if its TMV i think one of us would have seen some blotches on something not white/chem related. unless it is truly dormant (in everyones garden except with the aspect of duds????) or a different strain of it which doesnt include the blotching. but, until there is even proof of existence of that, we may as well throw broad mites in the mix. everyone has em ;)

Greyskull · May 27, 2014

186183 said:
Make that the third page.

post 52
thanks for redirecting me...

here it is:
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community...d-and-runted-plants.63709/page-3#post-1257184

and THANKS FOR THE PICS!!!!!!!

lots of reading easy to miss shit....
especially with little kids asking you to change from nickjr to disney jr hahaha

but.... POS = positive I am assuming...

Greyskull · May 27, 2014

I had to expand the pics to read them... i was like wtf is this I am looking at...
make sure you expand the pictures btw

aladeen... did we just reshuffle the cards lol
ah shit....

Dorje · May 27, 2014

Here's some pics of a semi-dud's stem. With my duds the flowers turn out fine (thank god!), but show symptoms like stunting and reduced yields...

Dorje · May 27, 2014

And plants in veg showing symptoms

186183 · May 27, 2014

Aladeen OG said:
all i meant by saying that was people we on to something here with downwithdirt saying he had them tested in a lab, so to throw anything else is sure, a possibility, but until someone throws up that proof like greyskulls saying, i meant we should stay on track. if its TMV i think one of us would have seen some blotches on something not white/chem related. unless it is truly dormant (in everyones garden except with the aspect of duds????) or a different strain of it which doesnt include the blotching. but, until there is even proof of existence of that, we may as well throw broad mites in the mix. everyone has em ;)

The thing is TMV doesn't just show up as blotches on leaves this is what people don't understand. It has so many different symptoms. It shows different on every strain I have done. Only two strains have showed the classic mosaic symptoms.

Aladeen OG · May 27, 2014

Dorje said:
And plants in veg showing symptoms

yeah that looks nothing like what i have going on, a few of my moms i'd need like 6' bushes to get leaves that big, and they will still be fully green, lush, full of health, or what looks like. i feel like its a "goldfish" symptom or so i thought, since my veg areas have always been small i figured they were trying to adapt.... i wonder if we are lumping a lot of problems into a single hopeful solution

Dorje · May 27, 2014

Aladeen OG said:
yeah that looks nothing like what i have going on, a few of my moms i'd need like 6' bushes to get leaves that big, and they will still be fully green, lush, full of health, or what looks like. i feel like its a "goldfish" symptom or so i thought, since my veg areas have always been small i figured they were trying to adapt.... i wonder if we are lumping a lot of problems into a single hopeful solution

Yeah, but I have had plants do the small leaf thing too.... just not right now. Symptoms vary so much that it makes this very difficult. And also the possibility there may be a virus AND a fungus attacking our plants.

One thing I would say about the stems I took pics of, it does look like there are some brown spots, although not as bad as other pics of verticillium I've seen.

DowNwithDirT · May 27, 2014

too much going on in here to sort threw........

Tmv isn't attacking my roots and causing weak brittle stems, thin leaves, and generally choking the plant out from the inside...........Pretty obviously fusarium or verticillum based on the fact the plants vascular tissues are damaged and or clogged. They are unable to move water and nutrients to where they need to.

FWIW YALL>.......I had plants with almost all browned out roots, the base of the main stem or the root crown is soft and decaying. After treating with glomus intraradices and azospirillum brasilense the root ball made a full recovery and dud plants clearly gained some slight vigor back.

Now treating with streptomyces lydicus (actinovate) and waiting on rootsheild wp (trichoderma harzianum).

actinovate and glomus/azos may counter act eachother. Not sure on this yet.

ilaughlast · May 27, 2014

where did you pick up the glomus intraradices and azospirillum brasilense and how did you use it?

DowNwithDirT said:
too much going on in here to sort threw........

Tmv isn't attacking my roots and causing weak brittle stems, thin leaves, and generally choking the plant out from the inside...........Pretty obviously fusarium or verticillum based on the fact the plants vascular tissues are damaged and or clogged. They are unable to move water and nutrients to where they need to.

FWIW YALL>.......I had plants with almost all browned out roots, the base of the main stem or the root crown is soft and decaying. After treating with the root ball made a full recovery and dud plants clearly gained some slight vigor back.

Now treating with streptomyces lydicus (actinovate) and waiting on rootsheild wp (trichoderma harzianum).

actinovate and glomus/azos may counter act eachother. Not sure on this yet.

soserthc1 · May 27, 2014

@delae632 curious as if you were having these issues pre - kloner trouble as I remember you posting that all your clones were not rooting in ez-cloners and you were going back to domes as I 'm really thinking this issue has started in my Kloner and spread from there as even the healthy cuts are looking sick in my cloner now but all new seed growth is fine .... ??

Dorje · May 27, 2014

I am doing a little experiment....

I put Extreme Azos and Pro Mix Pur on about 3/4 of my plants and Actinovate on the others.

Azos = azospirillum brasilense

Pur = glomus intraradices

Actinovate = streptomyces lydicus

I was worried the strep would just kill the other two, but it is an ingredient in Oregonism (a mix if different bennies) so not sure on that... it would really be best to try them one at a time but I have limited resources to do this.

There is a good chance that using this along with systemic fungicides may work, I am thinking Eagle20 and Heritage in combination... the goal being to beat it back enough that I can take unaffected clones, clean the shit out stuff, also do an ozone drench of your whole house/grow area like you would do for mold, I think I can rent an ozone machine that will do my whole house, a few hours of that should work to kill spores.

I hope it's possible to get rid of it this way and not resort to tissue culture. Of course, this will probably only work on already-resistant varieties that can already "outgrow" the disease... my plants have been healthy enough to get clones to root with no issues, but once in veg they show signs (as pictured above) and right now they are growing slow as fuck. :wtf:

Capulator · May 27, 2014

DowNwithDirT said:
too much going on in here to sort threw........

Tmv isn't attacking my roots and causing weak brittle stems, thin leaves, and generally choking the plant out from the inside...........Pretty obviously fusarium or verticillum based on the fact the plants vascular tissues are damaged and or clogged. They are unable to move water and nutrients to where they need to.

FWIW YALL>.......I had plants with almost all browned out roots, the base of the main stem or the root crown is soft and decaying. After treating with glomus intraradices and azospirillum brasilense the root ball made a full recovery and dud plants clearly gained some slight vigor back.

Now treating with streptomyces lydicus (actinovate) and waiting on rootsheild wp (trichoderma harzianum).

actinovate and glomus/azos may counter act eachother. Not sure on this yet.

I think the root pack has streptomyces lydicus WYEC and trichoderma t-22 (root shield) at higher concentrations. No need to waste your money on more.

Nute pack has azos and glomus.

whatthe215 · May 27, 2014

@Capulator is there any difference in the type of streptomyces lydicus you use and is in actinovate? strain WYEC 108?

Capulator · May 27, 2014

whatthe215 said:
@Capulator is there any difference in the type of streptomyces lydicus you use and is in actinovate? strain WYEC 108?

I am not even sure if it's in there, but if it were I imagine it would be the same strain... ;)

drknockbootz · May 27, 2014

Aladeen OG said:
all i meant by saying that was people we on to something here with downwithdirt saying he had them tested in a lab, so to throw anything else is sure, a possibility, but until someone throws up that proof like greyskulls saying, i meant we should stay on track. if its TMV i think one of us would have seen some blotches on something not white/chem related. unless it is truly dormant (in everyones garden except with the aspect of duds????) or a different strain of it which doesnt include the blotching. but, until there is even proof of existence of that, we may as well throw broad mites in the mix. everyone has em ;)

1# I have a Chemdog #4 dud that looks exactly like what has been shown in this thread shows no outward signs of TMV but has the small leaves slower growth brittle stems...etc hairy buds

2# I have a Snowdog that duds as well and what I notice is that when the clones first root they show mutated leaves from the new growth, its what everyone is calling "TMV" (serration, leaf tips curving to the left or right, but no striping) and then it eventually grows out of it, but its still a dud in disguise. It grows just as strong as my non dud and you couldnt tell when they are next to each other when fully grown. The final product not as bad as my Chemdog #4 dud but non the less no frost no smell but will still give a decent yield.
I think there is reason that "TMV" keeps getting thrown in because people are getting duds from plants that show these "signs". If they didnt the thread would never gain steam.
Thats why earlier I was looking for clarification of what a DUD is because Ive seen it happen both ways.

Also if its a root problem why arent the other plants showing these signs in my beds? Just wondering
My previous runs I dont think had any root problems but the problem still existed.

I think it happens either from the moms and as the cuts root and then I think its fate is determined(from my experience) Ive never seen them snap out of it.

For example Cap said his outgrow his non dud that doesnt sound like the signs of fusarium.
Maybe we need to make a distinction between the two.(or 3 or 4...etc)
Theres probably so much variation from strain to strain that they might show themselves differently in everybody's garden and seem hard to pinpoint and we probably have to figure this out pertaining to YOUR garden on a strain to strain basis.

Dorje · May 27, 2014

Capulator said:
I am not even sure if it's in there, but if it were I imagine it would be the same strain... ;)

Ahh, you are http://ogbiowar.com/ and the nute pack and root pack have the same organisms as the stuff I used? And your prices are probably better?

Do you use ever use the nute and root packs at the same time?

green punk · May 27, 2014

After following this thread, ( I have not read every post) I wonder how many of these occurrences can be blamed on getting cuts from people that are their culls, ( culls handed down to beggars , happens a lot). Thinking you can nurse them back etc. Or having a cutting that typically would be a cull and have it be your only survivor, and keeping her as a mom to perpetuate the strain.

As for this dud branch theory... not sure I can take that one as a truth. A shitty little sick, runt ass plant that should be culled sure is certainly is a possibility. This theory of a dud branch on an otherwise health plant, not so much. Perhaps that branch didn't get enough light or, that was crowded during veg and never really prospered in flower...

Where are the posts from the (supposed) big dogs who post only success on these sites, in this thread. I directed Jacks attention here, nada. Maybe some of the posters here in this thread are big dogs, but I can't tell from my view from this vantage point. But there are many who posture as big dogs who have yet to mention any thing. I think that if this situation is as common as this thread is boiling it down to be, it would be happening in the (supposed) massive gardens ( thousands of plants (cuttings)posted here.

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Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

Dudded, Stunted, and Runted plants...

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DowNwithDirT

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Dorje

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likes to smell trees.

whatthe215

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likes to smell trees.

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Dorje

green punk