Hydro Girl LED | FINAL DISCUSSION | Non DELETED POSTS

Goddamn has this shit gotten outta control.

I frankly don't give a fuck about the whole LED discussion - I don't use them, never have, and don't have any plans to.

The thing that bothers is me that members of this community whose input I value are now getting banned for what to me appears to be a totally pointless reason - you don't like LEDs, don't fucking buy them.

You think the LED forum is a propaganda-producing machine that you disagree with? Don't read it and don't argue with LEDGirl, as that seems to get people banned.

You're really that worried about people possibly buying LEDs because of what you think are biased and *improperly reported* results? Then start up a fucking website called "LEDSsuck.com" and go nuts with it - don't start fifteen threads a day saying "LEDs Suck", because then the message kinda gets lost in how obnoxious your delivery is.

Please, please, please stop ruining this website which I've come to really enjoy because both sides of the argument feel as though their word is gospel and the world is dying to hear it - I think I speak for the majority of the community when I say that we're really not and 99% of us really don't care.

Fucking grow up, people.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems like for the past week or two that this site is devolving into a shitshow, and I think it's a sad state of affairs - just look at the traffic decline over the past few days/week.

See thats the problem. I HAVE used LED's and posted at LEAST 10 posts about them with pictures and all. Relevant non spiteful info. Purely facts. Whats got me stirred up is that ALL OF MY POSTS HAVE BEEN DELETED. People on here have been banned for commenting on her threads.. Does anyone even know how people really feel about LEDs or her LEDs? NO

http://i617.invalid.com/albums/tt254/mmjspots/2010-09-18_1355.png

Thats great you feel this way so maybe you should take your own advice and not read the threads and keep your blinders on. I am not here to crap on someones business or have any personal beefs. This is about LED's in general and I was posting my thoughts like a normal user and started getting staffbot messages about my posts being deleted or moved to a place where NOBODY can see them.. No big for you right? What about the noobs that come on here looking for real advice and see 10 threads in the LED section on LED grows and nobody is saying anything bad.. This would tell me if I was a noob that LEDS ROCK!! You get it or no? I have already said it in so many ways but my post was deleted. I did not start the other thread or started anything ever. I mearly posted and was screwed with like anyone else posting negative with leds.

Bobby Smith said:

Goddamn has this shit gotten outta control.

I frankly don't give a fuck about the whole LED discussion - I don't use them, never have, and don't have any plans to.

The thing that bothers is me that members of this community whose input I value are now getting banned for what to me appears to be a totally pointless reason - you don't like LEDs, don't fucking buy them.

You think the LED forum is a propaganda-producing machine that you disagree with? Don't read it and don't argue with LEDGirl, as that seems to get people banned.

You're really that worried about people possibly buying LEDs because of what you think are biased and *improperly reported* results? Then start up a fucking website called "LEDSsuck.com" and go nuts with it - don't start fifteen threads a day saying "LEDs Suck", because then the message kinda gets lost in how obnoxious your delivery is.

Please, please, please stop ruining this website which I've come to really enjoy because both sides of the argument feel as though their word is gospel and the world is dying to hear it - I think I speak for the majority of the community when I say that we're really not and 99% of us really don't care.

Fucking grow up, people.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems like for the past week or two that this site is devolving into a shitshow, and I think it's a sad state of affairs - just look at the traffic decline over the past few days/week.

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WasntMe said:

Motta --- being rude like this IS WHY YOU GET DELETED and edited. It's not because you have such profound knowledge that must be covered up. It's because you come across rude in your posts to people. It's very simple.

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After you take your time to post real information just to have people delete it, you start losing your patience and sometimes the harsh truth hurts. I don't see any rudeness to what I am saying.

from a friend on here...

"Old Haglar was banned (i assume for the Buyer Beware thread).
Lost is banned for a month.
LEDGirl has not posted today, she may be banned for some period also (when she's been banned in the past, it doesn't show up under her name like it does for us common members).

Don't worry about LEDGirl. She/he is a really bad person and shit catches up to people like that. i've heard rumblings elsewhere that suggest that it's soon."

I understand why you are so upset MT, you have spent time using LED's and when you put up your findings and info, it all gets deleted.

Again, don't worry about it.

Many other people (yourself included) have used LED's and switch back to other forms of lighting. Less than 1% of the community uses LED's. Keep letting LEDgirl gas herself out, ballons run out of helium sooner or later ;)

WasntMe said:

If you don't see how your post can be taken a rude and disrespectful then there is a much bigger issue here.
I'd be happy to help you see how you can constuct your posts in a more civil way if you are actually open to it.
Maybe you aren't trying to be blatantly rude to people and you just don't know the best way to word your posts to properly express yourself. You remember what you posted in the beginning of this thread, you should know why it was edited ... you were rude period... no ifs ands or buts.
Also look above at the tone you take with Texas in you last set of posts, a mod here who has to do more needless work when people act like children, the tone was disrespectful to the time he puts in here .. the work all the mods do allows this board to be here for all of us.

As far as lost and Haggler there bans were also influenced by their rudeness to other members here, me included.

as far as the LED you used again, was it a HydroGrow LED or a different brand? simple question

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do you think the results would vary that much bro??? bottom line is there garbage and everyones posts are getting deleted because they open there mouth and give input into a situation.. some of the best growers on this site have had BAD grows with her shit!! that should answer any question..

Bobby Smith said:

Goddamn has this shit gotten outta control.

I frankly don't give a fuck about the whole LED discussion - I don't use them, never have, and don't have any plans to.

The thing that bothers is me that members of this community whose input I value are now getting banned for what to me appears to be a totally pointless reason - you don't like LEDs, don't fucking buy them.

You think the LED forum is a propaganda-producing machine that you disagree with? Don't read it and don't argue with LEDGirl, as that seems to get people banned.

You're really that worried about people possibly buying LEDs because of what you think are biased and *improperly reported* results? Then start up a fucking website called "LEDSsuck.com" and go nuts with it - don't start fifteen threads a day saying "LEDs Suck", because then the message kinda gets lost in how obnoxious your delivery is.

Please, please, please stop ruining this website which I've come to really enjoy because both sides of the argument feel as though their word is gospel and the world is dying to hear it - I think I speak for the majority of the community when I say that we're really not and 99% of us really don't care.

Fucking grow up, people.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems like for the past week or two that this site is devolving into a shitshow, and I think it's a sad state of affairs - just look at the traffic decline over the past few days/week.

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the traffic decline aint over leds bro!!! :sign0065: its over raskal leaving the farm over shady practices by the man himself and swerves handling of his bunk beans!!! and all the moderation goin on in this place..maybe you should read the threads a little bit more.. no traffic over led threads hahahaha :hi

Wow. I can't believe some of what I'm reading in this thread.

BobbySmith said:

You think the LED forum is a propaganda-producing machine that you disagree with? Don't read it and don't argue with LEDGirl, as that seems to get people banned.

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^^^ That. For reals.

I have to say though - when I watched LEDGirl open up her forum, trolls were on her like stink-on-a-weed-plant.

Without fail, one poster after another would chime in about how LED's are totally useless, and then sign off with something like "LED's lick my chode" or something.

For whatever reason, posters and trolls get so fired up over these panels they tend to bomb out any thread that brings them up - and not with intelligent dissection of the technology - pros and cons - nothing, just something stupid.

Anyway, my posts have been axed by LEDGirl as well - but after watching her forum for a few weeks - at least back a few months when she opened it - I could hardly blame her for recoiling into the online equivalent of a defensive crouch.

She just challenges memes and accepted ideas too much to operate coherently without editing threads.

If all of you people with bad juju for LEDGirl only wield this (this one is for you Seamaiden) animus because you don't like her edit button, then get out of her forum and find something better to do with ur time.

Motta-Tokka: Did you actually take time to screen grab your message box, whiteout your other messages, and then post it up?

Wow. Just wow . . .

froggy said:

I am a novice grower and have used LEDGirl's light. I have had a positive experience with her light and produced some really good quality meds

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If her lamps operate the way she claims then they should - the science is right on - I spent sometime looking into these things when LEDGirl first popped up and I'm no fucking novice.

LED's are the future. In 20 years no one will have idea WTF a HPS even is. The entire fucking world is relamping with these things. When manufacturering costs come down as more and more are produced (remember how expensive CFL's were 10 years ago?) panels will get more powerful and cooler . . . and better for larger grows like most of us here on the Farm do . . .

froggy said:

A lot of this debate really does seem to be more of a personal issue with LEDGirl. I have never seen such an aggressive and extreme debate over LED's.

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Yea really. I mean she's in a tough spot.

She can't just answer every fucking troll that pops up with a nasty comment when she's trying to convey complex technical information about something that operates very differently from what traditional growers are used too - trolls and less erudite posters end up eating every fucking thread with dumbshit two sentence posts like "Better than my 1000?!" or "LED's lick my chode!"

On the other hand, it does engender resentment among the more senior members of the community when a newbie with a paid membership starts editing posts of respected members. I imagine lots of posters have logged on to see the Staff-Bot edit message and said to themselves "Who the fuck?! . . "

Anyway - I can't imagine why grown adults can't just avoid someone they don't like.

Especially online. I mean really.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to sedate again.

sedate your exactly right!! thats why i dont post in her threads.. and foggy my bad you and the joker did put up a good grows with her lights but not up to the numbers she was puttin up.. and everything got deleted or she got hostle when she got called on it!!

sedate said:

On the other hand, it does engender resentment among the more senior members of the community when a newbie with a paid membership starts editing posts of respected members. I imagine lots of posters have logged on to see the Staff-Bot edit message and said to themselves "Who the fuck?! . . "

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sometimes stuff disappears around here with out any kind of staff bot notice, I'm not talking specifically about ledgirls threads as I dont think I have ever been edited there, but I have had posts disappear into the netherwwworld.

This is not the only site on the net. Hell I only come here to really see a few grows and check what is being asked and answers given and maybe once an awhile I need to look something up, which I also check out more than a few other places and use the combination of info to decide what may or may not do.

This is a business site, not a true public forum as in with free speech and advocacy, and not the only one nor is their anything wrong with it.

First and foremost they are about making money, what makes you think letting people get in the way of that is going to fly? This is like being inside a business and budding into conversations. Sometimes it is hard to keep the perspective for some but that is how I see it.

Bad to questionable acts on all sides never leads anywhere good. I think people need to respect some boundaries and I say some editing should be done without so much zeal.

Editing should be uncommon in my opinion. I also think if you act an ass than your whole writing should go too regardless of its value to help maintain an air of civility. I would rather see a rebuttal that I disagree with than a flat out edit without further input. I can see how some people feel upset about it. Its kinda like being told to shut up and being corrected in front of others yet you do not know about at the time. Also the reader most likely will think they are the persons words and if the meaning/info is changed they may think it is the exact view point of the poster. Not a big deal for new people but when respected people get edited these issues can happen and can and do sour people. It is unwise to do this so easy on many different levels in my view.

With said. Many of the edits were probably very necessary than we would like to admit.

As far as some of the grows with the LED lights. I have looked at some but sure not all led grow logs and I can see issues that would affect the yield and growth other than just the lights. I see in many instances the grower pointing out these issues. When I see people throw out generic info like some of the sites best testers didnt come up the same results does not equate to science.
The very best of us suffer from many of the same faults that you and I do. I am not dissing any testers by no means. I am just saying some people are seeing more into the results than I think is proper.

beezleb878 said:

This is a business site

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I sort of doubt this site is printing euros for Logic.

Given the bandwidth necessasry, the european server location, etc., one would need banner ads and sponsors here and there to mitigate the cost of running the site.

As a longtime seller of banner-ads (I worked for an ad-broker - like DoubleClick - for a longtime) I can assure you Logic is NOT somewhere across the pond cashing 5-figure THCFarmer advertising checks.

beezleb said:

not a true public forum as in with free speech and advocacy

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Okay. If I see one more poster bring up another amorphous conception of free speech, I'm going to have an anurism.

"Free Speech" - as Americans think of it - is protection from GOVERNMENT control on what citizens may say, print, or dessiminate. Logic and his mods are not the government. I have it on good authority that - get this - they may even be potheads. (!)

"Free Speech" - as Americans think of it - has nothing to do with what a private property owner (Logic) wants to do with that property or who he wants to allow on that property (LEDGirl) or doesn't (whoever the fuck is banned this week).

Lastly, and the thing I really, really, really don't get about this thread - LEDGirl only plays in her sandbox. Which she paid for. I don't know WTF is more American or "free" about that.

beezleb said:

I would rather see a rebuttal that I disagree with than a flat out edit without further input

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Right. Except LEDGirl didn't join to please you. Just like I'm not posting this message for your exclusive benefit. So what you would "rather" have is sort of moot, isn't it?

If you bothered to follow LEDGirl and her couterie of trolls, you'd find that their really isn't a way to deal with trolls - especially when there are multiples at a time - when she's trying to socially market her product - probably on multiple boards at once. She just cannot stop to deal with every douche that posts up some two-sentence piece of garbage when proper refutation would take 40 minutes of typing.

You've heard the expression "don't feed the trolls?"
LEDGirl doesn't feed trolls. She throws them out of her threads.

And again - if she stopped to feed every fucking troll that stopped by to dump on her product out of ignorance or boredom or what-the-fuck, she'd need a paid staff of 10 just to keep up with the posts.

Bottom Line: If you don't like LEDGirl or the way LEDGirl runs her sandbox - I think we all learned this in grade school - just don't play with her.

nah, "you" are trying to define what I am saying. I mean exactly as I write it. Looking between the lines is not serving you well here. You also didnt read what I wrote. We sorta say the same thing, DoH!

Also, I was assuming the auctions made some money.

Oh yea, if you would be so kind to point out the whole sentence and maintain the meaning of what I wrote when quoting. This way it does not make it seem like I saying one thing when I am saying another. So you lectured yourself fellow potthead hehe.

sedate said:

If all of you people with bad juju for LEDGirl only wield this (this one is for you Seamaiden) animus because you don't like her edit button, then get out of her forum and find something better to do with ur time.

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You may not have realized this, but I have never posted in her forum. I read it on some occasion, and I have participated to a small degree in other discussions. However, that does not preclude me from the ability to put a few things together, having been a businessperson myself some things especially stand out to me. And so, I call them as I see them--if anyone is to be called out for slinging mud, anyone who does it so should be.

I stand by that, too. Furthermore, I defy you or anyone to find ANYTHING posted by me ever that qualifies as trolling.

My interest in LED lighting began with reef aquariums, not growing pot. Not that it matters, but there it is.

What's funny is the difference in behaviors I see between new product developers in the aquarium world (when things don't go as advertised) versus the behavior I see in the pot world when things don't go as advertised. Both endeavors are just as fraught with opportunities for disaster, too. I don't think it's a poor comparison, nor do I think it's asking too much for someone who's asking folks to spend their money on their product to behave with a wee bit more decorum than their customers.

If someone introduced a new lighting product in the aquarium world and it failed to perform as advertised and customers said so, and then that outfit went on to state that the problem lay with the customers, that they just killed fish and their customers from another site grow MAD corals and the rarest fish using that product and the ones that can't are just fucked up, that outfit wouldn't last very long at all if they used some of the tactics that I have seen LEDGirl use.

No excuses for this type of shit in my world, not if you're an adult with a little business savvy. I will always call it exactly like I see it and that is how I see it.

The misogyny needs to stop, too, but that's not gonna happen anytime soon.

Seriously, sedate, you don't see where my issue lies here? I actually thought about how she might have gone about marketing these lights, too, but I won't get into that here as it's her business and her marketing plan. That, to my mind, is but one reason why things are the way they are regarding this issue.

Sedate, I've read enough of your post's to know your not the everyday sucker, but did you really say somebody over there is trying to "convey complex technical data". lol, Man I think you've been engulfed by the hysteria.

The lights are kind of cool, if you want to just buy one, no problem, beware of blown up claims, thats all. No offense but breakthrough technology will come from panasonic not led girl. And the old technology still isnt anywhere near being competitive.

seamaiden said:

Seriously, sedate, you don't see where my issue lies here?

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huh? No you gave me rep for my first "animus" comment. So I used it again. That was all. "This [use of the word animus] is for you seamaiden" - it was a nod for a rep. :)

I totally agree seamaiden. You are not a troll or anything even approaching a problem poster.

Like I said originally, if the animus for the post editing - which is what all the bitching is about - then I don't really see the issue. Don't post there.

If she really has a bunk product - which I really kind of doubt for a number of reasons, all which are LEDGirl-independent reasons - then that's a different issue.

seamaiden said:

What's funny is the difference in behaviors I see between new product developers in the aquarium world (when things don't go as advertised) versus the behavior I see in the pot world when things don't go as advertised

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Sure. Aquariums are as tough as any RDWC. No doubt. Lotsa the same stuff going on.

seamaiden said:

If someone introduced a new lighting product in the aquarium world and it failed to perform as advertised and customers said so, and then that outfit went on to state that the problem lay with the customers, that they just killed fish and their customers from another site grow MAD corals and the rarest fish using that product and the ones that can't are just fucked up, that outfit wouldn't last very long at all if they used some of the tactics that I have seen LEDGirl use.

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Right. I mean I haven't read every single journal over there but the results all look kinda split.

I kinda chalked it up the growers/grow style/strains long before this thread ever appeared.

I've read enough LED grow journals and talked to enough growers IRL that the baseline claim of 1g/1w is more than possible for significanly less electricity per watt.

It does however require a pretty big adjustment in growing style, and perhaps more dissappointingly, IMO more plants per unit of space, but these things will work themselves out as LED prices drop and panels get larger and more powerful.

kuz said:

I've read enough of your post's to know your not the everyday sucker,

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Thanks. I'll take that. :)

kuz said:

but did you really say somebody over there is trying to "convey complex technical data"

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Uh. Yes. Threads dealing with spectral balancing and optimum light wavelength and how that interacts with lenses and the inverse-square for light qualify as "complex technical data" that doesn't mix well with dumbfuck statements like "LED's lick my chode" - an actual quote from a thankfully banned poster.

LEDGirl's forum is the only pot forum - uhh - ever - to make me break out my old Calculus book.

If the threads over there have devolved significantly since then . . . well, then that's a bit of a shame.

kuz said:

No offense but breakthrough technology will come from panasonic not led girl

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Just to nitpick, it'll be Philips.

But more broadly speaking, a large manufacturer like that will make LED's themselves - it's up to innovators and entrepenuers and hobbyists and small companies to rig them up to power suppliers, arrange them in photosynthetically optimized arrays, and sell them into the grow community.

I can assure you, Philips will not be making thier LED arrays for anything but televisions and Christmas ornaments.

kuz said:

Man I think you've been engulfed by the hysteria.

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Um. I don't grow with LED's and don't plan on it anytime soon. But the fact remains that the world is relamping with them. (seen a new traffic light with an incandescent? Nope?)

HPS lamps will still be the industry standard growlamp for sometime, but LED's will replace them sooner or later. Believe that.

kuz said:

Sedate, I've read enough of your post's to know your not the everyday sucker, but did you really say somebody over there is trying to "convey complex technical data". lol, Man I think you've been engulfed by the hysteria.

The lights are kind of cool, if you want to just buy one, no problem, beware of blown up claims, thats all. No offense but breakthrough technology will come from panasonic not led girl. And the old technology still isnt anywhere near being competitive.

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and if you posted this reply in her forum.. it would be deleted or edited by now... and it isnt a bad post, but thats what she does.. i dont think people understand... i don't like to stand by and watch people get burned for there money because they ask her a question and she posts up some inflated numbers... i have in NO way a problem with her product, but i do have a problem with the way she sells and markets it to people who dont know any better... and yea people can try and do some research on her product but when she DELETES everyone's posts who has had a bad experience or doesnt agree with her numbers and calls her bullshit, then thats not right regardless of what she paid to have her thread section and her doing it in her "sandbox".. and if you think otherwise ur a super scumbag... but i guess thats what this worlds made of nowadays people with low morals and the fend for yourself attitude..

I seen for myself shes banned on ICMAG for doing the exact same thing. At least they picked up on it eventually and had the nerve to do something.

Sponsorship Money or Protecting the integrity of the website not allowing a one sided view to a product being sold. I never lied about anything I posted and had enough data posted here to have anyone with brains some second thoughts. That is obviously a deterrent and is good enough for the post or thread to be deleted.

I have used many different lights.. Posted this info but deleted.

2 Different Companies LEDs
T-5 and T-8 Floros
CFL's
Induction Lights
HPS Lights

Have not done plasma, outdoor, or soil.

Been growing for about 4 years now in low pressure aeroponics till I recently switched systems.

Some pics and I think I got my point across. I asked for my post not to be deleted and it was. Hopefully this does not happen again, kthxbai

Before harping about experience, the difference in the lights would have to be understood before saying they are too different.

Perhaps if this information was available we could see those led light specs compared to the LEDgirl led's specs of similar size and determine it for ourselves.

Without that info, I have no opinion but to say it has potentially withheld to edited from us.

Motta Toka can you tell us your LED lights specs? thanks.