dankworth
- 1,519
- 163
Botanicare 3-1-2(more a something-1-2.9 I think) is supposed to be for soil/coco.
They list exact ppms on their website somewhere I think.
No micros in that.
That info may even be in my 3-1-2 thread somewhere.
120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.
They list exact ppms on their website somewhere I think.
No micros in that.
That info may even be in my 3-1-2 thread somewhere.
LexLuthor
- 2,972
- 263
Thanks, I'll find out there exact numbers and punch it in the nute calc.
Does anyone know where Ca and Mg should be in relation to a 3-1-2 formula in soil with NO amendments?? I was thinking 2:1 N:Ca and 2:1 Ca:Mg.
LexLuthor
- 2,972
- 263
Question Dank, what was that website you mentioned earlier on this thread that you said you learned alot about growing in coco?? I forgot the name.
dankworth
- 1,519
- 163
I think it was Integral Hydroponics, not 100% sure.
LexLuthor
- 2,972
- 263
dankworth
- 1,519
- 163
Nope I boosted it higher I think.
No longer will do that. Will bump P and K to JK's recommendations or thereabouts. No more HH/MOAB at the end.
outwest
Premium Gardener
Supporter
- 4,629
- 263
Check out what homebrew is doing for a bloom boost using raw salts. I believe it's MPK?
Hope you are well, DW!
outwest
pork
- 197
- 28
P to 90 and K to?
i've been running my P at 90 and the girls seems to love it, might even want a tad bit more...
basically, although higher levels of Phosphates can contribute to slowed Fungi growth, the plant itself needs a fair amount of Phosphorus for full development. Fungi and the plant will compete for phosphate resources and 30ppm doesn't allow for the plant to get enough, imo, and after talking to a botanist friend of mine in a different field of study...
i've been running my P at 90 and the girls seems to love it, might even want a tad bit more...
basically, although higher levels of Phosphates can contribute to slowed Fungi growth, the plant itself needs a fair amount of Phosphorus for full development. Fungi and the plant will compete for phosphate resources and 30ppm doesn't allow for the plant to get enough, imo, and after talking to a botanist friend of mine in a different field of study...
dankworth
- 1,519
- 163
Thinking should bump k from 300 regularly to 350 or so
dizzlekush
- 62
- 18
whoa whoa whoa....
300-350ppm of K?
177ppm S?
Dude you gotta dump that potassium sulfate.
Big props for doing your own formulations. makes growing so much easier.
Cannabis can handle a huge amount of K and S without showing signs of phytotoxicity but that doesn't mean that you should overdo it so much. You're essentially throwing nutes down the drain, causing a salinity buildup in your medium, leading to osmotic stress and decreased transpiration, therefore decreasing Ca, B, and Si uptake (which is dependent on rate of transpiration). Aside from the increased salinity, excess K decreases Mg and B availability, and excess S decreases Ca availability.
I understand a bit of healthy skepticism. But to make you more of a believer id check out some of "Yosemite Sam"s grows here and at ICM. He grows monster cannabis trees with really nice yields and he does it with ~120ppm K and ~60ppm S, although he is running that in coco which provides a good amount of K. I personally use K up to 200-220ppm, but that is only during the heaviest periods of nutrient requirement and is only for a few fertigations.
Here's an example of one of my heavy feeds, i only ever increase P higher than this during the 2nd half of bloom, since there is some evidence that higher P levels increase THC content, but i never go above ~85ppm P. My Mg and S are only that high to get my N higher, usually i try to keep Mg around 45ppm and S around 60ppm
My waters got ~29ppm Ca and ~11ppm of each S and Mg so those are included in the results
Other than that, thats as hot as my feeds get. Usually when i dont feed so heavy my formulations fall close to Hoaglands, except i cut the N and Ca to 40-70% and use 10X the Zn, Cu and Mo since they are not as significant a contaminant in salts as they were when Hoagland & Arnon decided on their solution, and most Cu Zn and Mo requirements used to be provided as contaminants.
Hoagland's Solution:
N 210 ppm
P 31 ppm
K 235 ppm
Ca 200 ppm
Mg 48 ppm
S 64 ppm
Fe 1 to 5 ppm
Mn 0.5 ppm
Zn 0.05 ppm
Cu 0.02 ppm
B 0.5 ppm
Mo 0.01 ppm
BTW the Hoaglands solution was made for heavier feeders than cannabis like squash, melons, peppers and tomatoes, and it only uses a fraction of the K and S that you're using. Also if you want to lessen the internodal elongation (stretch) that happens during the first 3 weeks of bloom, try keeping your P in the 25-35ppm range during the stretch, as high P levels increase internodal elongation. Remember Hoaglands is only 30ppm and is for heavier feeders.
Hope that helps,
dizzle
dizzlekush
- 62
- 18
I just realized that the formula i posted for my heavy feed is crazy close to Spurrs. This is by coincidence and usually my formulas are not so high EC and identical to his. I know his formulas have been brought up before on this thread, but since i feel like i accidentally stole spurrs formula and called it my own that i should plug his formulas.
Everythings from ICM so just replace the 'invalid's with the correct address
Spurrs Formula's:
In case you're wondering how we come up with this shit, what ppm to decide on etc., here's Spurrs explanation for his formulas and a list of the best cannabis tissue analyses r.e. nutrient levels. Basically you just try to provide similar ratios of nutrients that you find in tissue samples and then just keep in mind basic fertigation science (rates of nutrient uptake/acquisition, effect on pH, alkalinity, nutrient antagonism, precipitation, salinity etc.)
In my honest opinion Spurrs formulas use way too much Si and have a tad too much NH4, and if you keep calcium so heavy in the 2nd half of bloom you can see some delayed maturation in some strains, especially in the stigmas, but other than that his formulas are the most excellent i have ever seen.
Explanation:
Tissue Analyses:
P.S. dankworth love your avatar. Cant believe they were planning on killing off Pinkman at the end of the 1st season, the show wouldn't be as good without him.
Everythings from ICM so just replace the 'invalid's with the correct address
Spurrs Formula's:
In case you're wondering how we come up with this shit, what ppm to decide on etc., here's Spurrs explanation for his formulas and a list of the best cannabis tissue analyses r.e. nutrient levels. Basically you just try to provide similar ratios of nutrients that you find in tissue samples and then just keep in mind basic fertigation science (rates of nutrient uptake/acquisition, effect on pH, alkalinity, nutrient antagonism, precipitation, salinity etc.)
In my honest opinion Spurrs formulas use way too much Si and have a tad too much NH4, and if you keep calcium so heavy in the 2nd half of bloom you can see some delayed maturation in some strains, especially in the stigmas, but other than that his formulas are the most excellent i have ever seen.
Explanation:
Tissue Analyses:
P.S. dankworth love your avatar. Cant believe they were planning on killing off Pinkman at the end of the 1st season, the show wouldn't be as good without him.
Capulator
likes to smell trees.
Supporter
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1:1 N:Ca
2:1 Ca:Mg
I like to run around 150ppm Ca if possible.
Fatman states a 3-1-2 ratio is best in veg through end of stretch... followed by a 2-1-2 in flower. I may try this formula next round to see how it does.
Capulator
likes to smell trees.
Supporter
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Great info. Do you drop a little N in later in flower or keep it at that all the way through?
dizzlekush
- 62
- 18
I lower my CalciNit applications in late flower since it will give some strains what i call "The curse of eternally white stigmas", and the plant will never look fully mature. Im fairly positive this is due to the excess Ca instead of N though, since i've found lots of scientific lit on Ca delaying maturation/senescence and most scientific lit i find on N talks about N DEFICIENCY causing a delay in maturation, have found nothing on excess causing it.
This leads me to believe the common belief amongst cannabis cultivators that N is bad for flowering comes from over application of Calcium Nitrate delaying maturation, and the N being blamed instead of the Ca.This is just like how NH4 is often blamed for causing stretch when its an overapplication of mono or di ammonium phosphate and the extra P that causes stretch.
The N to Ca ratio is relatively unimportant aside from its effect on lodging and insect & mold susceptibility. A lack of either will increase susceptibility, but the higher the N and the lower the Ca the more susceptible the plant becomes. Excess N softens tissues, while Ca toughens it. The softer the tissue, the more susceptible the crop is to lodging, insects and molds. Other than that, Cannabis will grow very happily on a wide range of N:Ca ratio as long as adequate amounts of each are provided.
The Ca:Mg ratio is much more important, as each antagonizes the uptake of the other, 3:1 - 2:1 Ca:Mg being the optimal range.
150ppm Ca? Yosemite Sam was going that high in Ca trying to get the Albrecht ratio's in his medium (old-school discredited science), but last i heard from him it was causing some serious delays in his crops maturation, although the ladies looked very healthy. you noticing anything?
3-1-2 is great for veg, 2-1-2 isn't optimal for bloom but plants will do just fine on it. 2-1-2 is considered the 'go-to' ratio for most horticultural applications
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
Not in coco, but fwiw. Heavy feeders peak bloom nutes;
133 149 550 101 135 222
mild nutes peak bloom:
118 80 352 50 100 115
The heavy feeders I've found gorge themselves on mg, cant get enough.
These strains that like lighter nutes are kind of new to me. This round I'm keeping n ca and mg the same all the way through flower. So far so good. From flip to 25 or 30 days:
118 40 184 50 100 63
118 60 279 50 100 94 day 30
118 80 353 50 100 115 day 40
5 gallon airpots with Rocks. Flood for 1 minute 5 times a day (about a gallon I think), for 15 - 20 days into flower, then I flood 9 times a day. Each plant has its own small 2 gallon res, I have to top with r/o or the salts build up, ec goes crazy. You guys in coco have this problem? First res change 15 days in, then every 10 days or so.
Thats the plan anyway, work in progress.
133 149 550 101 135 222
mild nutes peak bloom:
118 80 352 50 100 115
The heavy feeders I've found gorge themselves on mg, cant get enough.
These strains that like lighter nutes are kind of new to me. This round I'm keeping n ca and mg the same all the way through flower. So far so good. From flip to 25 or 30 days:
118 40 184 50 100 63
118 60 279 50 100 94 day 30
118 80 353 50 100 115 day 40
5 gallon airpots with Rocks. Flood for 1 minute 5 times a day (about a gallon I think), for 15 - 20 days into flower, then I flood 9 times a day. Each plant has its own small 2 gallon res, I have to top with r/o or the salts build up, ec goes crazy. You guys in coco have this problem? First res change 15 days in, then every 10 days or so.
Thats the plan anyway, work in progress.
LexLuthor
- 2,972
- 263
K
kuz
- 678
- 63
Uh, wasnt real clear. I meant when running drain to waste in coco do you get salt build up and need to flush every so often?
El Cerebro
- 1,197
- 113
1:1.2 N:Ca coco/chow
LexLuthor
- 2,972
- 263
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