1,200,000 Veterans Arrested- DOJ Study

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Important U.S. Bureau of Justice 2007 Study
1,200,000 Veterans Arrested
703,000 Veterans Incarcerated



The Tragedy of Our 'Disappeared' Veterans
How the justice system has been manipulated to put astonishing numbers of vets with PTSD and other psychiatric injuries behind bars.


August 12, 2009 |




Wayne McMahon was busted on gun charges six months after he got out of the Marines.

He was jumped by a gang of kids in his hometown of Albany, N.Y. , and he went for the assault rifle he kept in the back of his SUV.

He's serving "three flat, with two years of post-release" at Groveland Prison in upstate New York.

Maybe it's tempting to write McMahon off as just a screwed-up person who made the kinds of mistakes that should have landed him in jail, but maybe that's because his injuries don't show on the outside.

Unlike physical injuries, psychiatric injuries are invisible; the burden of proof lands on the soldier (or sailor or Marine), and such injuries are easy for the public to deny.

The diagnostic criteria for post-traumatic stress disorder include a preoccupation with danger.

According to Jonathan Shay, a Veterans Administration psychiatrist and author of Achilles in Vietnam, hypervigilance in soldiers and veterans is expressed as the persistent mobilization of both body and mind to protect against lethal danger -- they act as though they were still in combat, even when the danger is no longer present.

That preoccupation leads to a cluster of symptoms, including sleeplessness, exaggerated startle responses, violent outbursts and a reliance on combat skills that are inappropriate, and very often illegal, in the civilian world.

When I asked McMahon what he was doing with an assault rifle in his car, he told me that since he got back from Afghanistan, he didn't feel safe without guns around.

"There was almost always a gun," he said. "In the apartment, there was guns everywhere.

"I was just over in combat, and you guys gave me an M-16 and a 9mm and let me walk around for eight months straight. And now I get back, and I get jumped by a bunch of people, and I can't have a gun?"

McMahon sits across from me in his prison greens, elbows on his knees, leaning into his story about the kid he was and the man he is hoping to become. His eagerness and optimism make it clear that he believes his mistakes are behind him.

His parents were teenagers when he was born, and they separated shortly after. He bounced around on the streets of Albany, and, like so many other young Americans with dreams of escaping dysfunctional families and lousy neighborhoods, he saw the military as a get-out-of-jail-free card.

He enlisted in the Marines right out of high school.

For the first time in his life, McMahon found himself in a meritocracy. He was promoted regularly and quickly, making sergeant by the time he got to Afghanistan.

Then two days before his five-year contract was up, he was caught drinking on the job, busted down to lance corporal and administratively discharged. He lost all his benefits.

McMahon was in the Marine Corps from 2001 until 2006. He spent his last year working as an aircraft mechanic on a flight line in Afghanistan that was under near-constant attack. It was also a transshipment point for injured American soldiers who were being evacuated to Germany.

For eight months, his days and nights were spent up close and personal with the visceral evidence of what the rockets, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades do to human bodies.

"We had a lot of explosions. Almost every day. And I seen guys coming out from convoy missions where their Humvees would have exploded," he told me matter-of-factly. "The first two months were pretty terrible. "

After that, even though "a lot of other people found it hard to deal with, it wasn't really too rough for me." A bit of Marine bravado, perhaps, but reinforced with a bit of liquid courage:

"We Marines, we're smart," he explained. "There was no alcohol provided, but I was making my own from fruit juice I got from the chow hall and yeast they gave us at the pizza shop. It was horrible, really horrible -- but two little 20-ounce water bottles, and you were good for the night. " It was the only way he got any sleep.

Jonathan Shay also notes the almost-universal reliance on alcohol or drugs by psychically injured veterans. They afford some temporary relief from intolerable memories and from the emotional and physical exhaustion of maintaining a constant state of vigilance.

McMahon came home from Afghanistan with a serious drinking problem, a hair-trigger temper and conditioned to rely on his combat skills for survival.

Both his marriage and his military career quickly unraveled, and then he was arrested. Nobody diagnosed his PTSD until he got to Groveland.

McMahon's obsession with safety and guns, and his compulsive drinking are both typical of a post-traumatic stress injury, but instead of diagnosis and treatment, he was left to his own compromised resources and promptly landed in jail.

In terms of the bottom line, it's a trifecta for the military when that happens. A damaged soldier is disappeared, the cost of treatment avoided and the evidence that would prove how often veterans find it impossible to readjust when they come home is erased.

Traumatized soldiers are not a military asset. They are unreliable, and can be dangerous to their fellow soldiers and to themselves. Their care can take years and be quite expensive. But because the macho culture of the military stigmatizes mental health issues, most soldiers won't ask for the help they need.

When they try to manage on their own and fail, when the entirely predictable symptoms of their injuries get them into trouble, their behavior is used to justify kicking them out of the service.

They lose all their health and disability benefits, and in the absence of treatment and support, the same behaviors that got them kicked out of the military land them in jail.

Once they enter the criminal justice system, their military service is irrelevant. Soldiers and veterans with psychiatric injuries who, like McMahon, end up in jail, are handed -- and in fact often accept -- the full burden of responsibility for their actions. And when that happens, the system gets off free.

That's what happened to McMahon, and though it's still too soon for meaningful statistics about incarceration rates among this new generation of veterans, the anecdotal evidence suggesting a predictive relationship between military experience, PTSD and trouble with the criminal justice system continues to mount .

And this is not a new phenomenon. The National Vietnam Veterans Readjustment Study, published in 1990, found that more than a decade after the Vietnam conflict ended, 15 percent of male veterans still suffered from PTSD, and half of them had been arrested or in jail at least once.

Most Vietnam War veterans deployed for exactly one year. Veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan have experienced longer and repeated deployments, and top military psychiatrists acknowledge that veterans of these new wars may have an even harder time coming home.

And instead of improving, the situation is getting worse. In 2008, the Rand Corp. estimated that 300,000 soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan will suffer from post-traumatic stress issues, and 320,000 others will suffer traumatic brain injuries that express many of the same symptoms as PTSD.

And although most of them will not seek treatment, even when they try the VA has made such care extremely difficult to access.

For years, the Pentagon has chosen to ignore congressional directives to screen soldiers both pre- and post-deployment.

In May, the Hartford Courant reported that such screenings are still being administered in haphazard fashion. Only 1 percent of at-risk soldiers were referred to a mental health professional prior to deployment, and post-deployment screenings continue to be a laughably inadequate box to be checked on a form.

The Courant noted that the situation has remained unchanged since the paper reported on the issue in 2007.

And for veterans, the VA's claims backlog in May was approaching 1 million, a 14 percent rise since January.

By now, the anecdotal evidence associating combat-related PTSD with crime and incarceration ought to be part of the conventional wisdom. Its accumulation over the past century should have engendered enough concern to provoke some serious attention and study.

But the reality is that nobody knows the precise number of veterans who have ended up behind bars in the aftermath of America's wars.

There are more than a few reasons why military and government officials might want those numbers to remain hidden, but certainly among the most compelling is cost.

Large numbers of veterans in prison suggest a pattern, perhaps even a causal relationship between military service and behaviors that lead to incarceration, lending support to those who argue that such behaviors should be seen as possible symptoms of a service-connected injury deserving of treatment and support rather than punishment.

When the patterns are hidden -- the numbers unavailable -- it is easier for the military to pretend that the problem is with a given individual and not systemic.

In January 2008, when the New York Times reported that it had identified 121 cases in which veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan had been charged with murder, the Pentagon declined to comment because it could not duplicate the newspaper's research.

A year later, the Army finally admitted that there might in fact be a connection between the violent behaviors of some returning service members and their combat experience. Pete Geren, Secretary of the Army, announced that in response to a spate of homicides at the Fort Carson Army base, he was “considering” conducting an Army-wide review of all soldiers involved in violent crimes since returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The report, which was finally published last week, does in fact “suggest a possible association between increasing levels of combat exposure and risk for negative behavioral outcomes."

And though it accuses the Army of denying necessary care to soldiers, and specifically blames commanders for proscribing access, Eric Schoomaker, the Army's surgeon general, calls it “preliminary,” and insists that no causality can be inferred from the findings.

Without causality, there is of course limited accountability.

Shoomaker pointed out that soldiers themselves should bear some responsibility for failing to seek help, ignoring the fact that half of the surveyed soldiers accused of violent behaviors had been sent back to Iraq “early,” and that many of them had documented suicide issues. Schoomaker also stressed that though many soldiers claimed to have witnessed war crimes, an Army probe did not substantiate those claims.

The results of this report might have been an invaluable contribution to the public conversation about what war does to soldiers and who should be responsible for their readjustment into society. Instead, once again, soldiers are blamed for violent behaviors that are clearly symptomatic of their injuries. When individuals take the rap, there is no interrogation of the pattern. Officials remain free to dismiss and deny how many ex-service members are ending up in jail. And as long as the bodies remain hidden, they get away with it.

Vets Demonized; the System Gets Off the Hook

Ed Hart has a hard time accepting official denial of a connection that to him seems more than obvious.

Hart is an 87-year-old Marine, a veteran of World War II. He is also a former president of Veterans for Peace, a retired attorney and a deeply concerned citizen.

"People like me are upset about what they did to us -- and what they continue to do to the fuzzy-faced kids they haul off to boot camp," Hart said. "Too many of those kids never made it back into reality; they were found guilty of terrible crimes and sent off to spend years in prison -- maybe all the years left to them -- and we can't figure out what happened to them?"

Hart did in fact try to figure out what was happening in the late ‘80s, when Vietnam veterans began showing up in large numbers in the criminal justice system. Along with his pro bono legal work, he began interviewing large numbers of vets in prison.

What he discovered has been corroborated by every Bureau of Justice Statistics survey since: incarcerated veterans are better educated than their non-veteran counterparts; they are more likely to have been employed at the time of their arrest; and they are more likely to be in jail for a first offense -- all of which should be factors in their favor at sentencing.

But instead, they are more likely to get longer sentences than non-veterans -- on average, more than two years longer -- for the same crime.

Guy Gambill, director of research and policy at the Veterans Initiatives Center and Research Institute (VICTRI), attributes this to a "know better" syndrome.

"Judges and juries, ironically, place veterans in a higher category, one with heavy moral undertones. The thinking goes that they should know better and therefore should be held to a higher standard of conduct," he said.

Hart also recognized that moral judgment, but in his days as a practicing attorney, he saw an element of demonization in the dynamic as well.

"I've seen prosecuting attorneys in their final statements point to the bewildered man at the defense table and tell the jury, ‘Look at him! He's a trained killer! We need to get him off the streets and make them safe for our women and children.' "

Mike Thomas has experienced that prejudice firsthand. Thomas did three tours in Vietnam, was wounded twice, and earned all kinds of medals, but he's doing 25-to-life at Mule Creek Prison in Ione, Calif., for spewing some racist bile at an Asian man over the phone.

The day he got home from Vietnam, he beat up an Asian man in a bar, and he did it again the day they let him out of jail. He was sent to a military hospital for two years with a diagnosis of Adult Situational Reaction, a diagnostic precursor to PTSD.

The military declared him "fully recovered." For 25 years, he held down a job as a sales manager.

Then, one morning, in the midst of a flashback, Thomas lost his balance. Aside from hypervigilance, the symptoms of PTSD also include flashbacks. Flashbacks can be so convincingly real that the sufferer behaves as though he or she were actually in the remembered moment.

"Everybody who's lived at the brink of terror for some time has stored that place in his memory," Hart explains with empathy. "There's always the possibility that something will take him back sometime, give him that little push that will take his balance away.

"But there ain't much more you can do to a guy on the phone worse than yell at him."

Nonetheless, the prosecutor, noting Thomas's two priors, decided to interpret his phone rant as a terrorist threat -- hence the draconian sentence.

Some might argue that Thomas's antagonism towards Asians made him an accident waiting to happen, and they're not wrong. But dehumanization of the enemy is central to how military training enables soldiers to overcome their inherent resistance to killing other human beings.

Author Jonathan Shay describes how images of the enemy were drilled into his Vietnam-era patients as a "demonized adversary … evil, loathsome, deserving to be killed as the enemy of God, and as God-hated vermin, so inhuman as not really to care if he lives or dies."

It seems a distortion of justice to send a man to prison for life because in the course of his military training a switch got flipped, making him temporarily more useful to his government.

The practice continues. Bob Herbert, writing in the New York Times, described "the growing rage among coalition troops against all Iraqis (known derisively as 'hajis,' just as the Vietnamese were known as 'gooks')."

He quotes Sgt. Camilo Mejía, an Iraq war veteran, who explained, "You just sort of try to block out the fact that they are human beings and see them as enemies. You call them hajis, you know? You do all the things that make it easier to deal with killing them and mistreating them."

"The sacrifice that citizens make when they serve in their country's military," Shay reminds us, "is not simply the risk of death, dismemberment, disfigurement and paralysis -- as terrible as these realities are. They risk their peace of mind."

"When I went to boot camp," Thomas said, "I was a good Catholic boy who'd never shot so much as a squirrel. But I turned 20, 21 and 22 in Vietnam, and that became my identity. I tried to filter life through that prism of horror, pain and loss. Not good. A recipe for disaster."

Thomas once tried suicide to escape "the despair, grief, survivor guilt, nightmares, depression, the pain of hearing my mother say she wished I had died in Vietnam so her memories wouldn't be tainted."

More recently, he asked Veterans for Peace -- by mail -- to sponsor a nationwide program for incarcerated vets. His proposal was accepted and in May, VFP Incarcerated Chapter 001 was officially incorporated at Mule Creek Prison.

Wayne McMahon was luckier in that New York state still maintains residential therapeutic programs for veterans at three of its prisons. (In 1999, there were 19, boasting a recidivism rate of 9 percent after five years compared to 52 percent for non-veterans. Unfortunately for taxpayers, those programs were consolidated for the sake of "efficiency and effectiveness.") He has taken advantage of courses in anger and aggression management, interpersonal dynamics, and substance abuse, and he has completed his training as a group facilitator.

McMahon has a job waiting for him when he gets out; he wants to go back to school; and he is going to try for a discharge upgrade from the military based on his PTSD diagnosis.

The Hidden Numbers

Since its first study of the issue in 1979, the Bureau of Justice Statistics has been the best source of information on the number of vets who have ended up behind bars.

According to the bureau's most recent survey, in 2004, there were 140,000 veterans in the nation's prisons -- or about 10 percent of the total prison population. By 2007, that number had risen to156,100, but the prison population overall had increased, so the relative share of vets in the population remained unchanged.

But as Baruch College's Aaron Levenstein once said, "Statistics are like bikinis. What they reveal is suggestive, but what they conceal is vital. "

For example, the numbers above don't include veterans held in the nation's jails, or those on probation or parole. When those groups are included, according to BJS estimates, the number of veterans who were under correctional supervision in 2007 jumps to 703,000. In addition, just under 1.2 million vets were arrested in 2007.

At least some of those on parole or probation at a given point will be arrested later in the year, skewing the estimated total. But Christopher Mumola, author of the last two BJS surveys of incarcerated veterans, said "if 703,000 veterans are supervised in some fashion on a given day, and 1,159,500 arrests in 2007 involved veterans as well, that gives you a rough approximation of the maximum number of vets who are touched by the criminal justice system in a year of about 1.8 million to 1.9 million veterans."

Still, in all probability, that number under-represents the number of veterans behind bars for several reasons.

For one, Mumola points out, an inmate's military history is irrelevant to prison administrators. "(They) measure the things they operationally use or are bureaucratically accountable for. Whether someone is a veteran or not doesn't change how that inmate is handled, the privileges they have or anything like that." So prison administrators don't ask. And, Mumola added, "the federal government doesn't require them to keep those statistics."

Frank Dawson, a patient advocate at the Boston VA, has long been frustrated and dismayed by the lack of reliable numbers. Dawson says he believes veterans need support before their lives spin out of control, and, "as a national service provider, the VA can't target services unless it knows where its population is."

But Dawson, like everyone else, has been stymied in his efforts. "I keep on my desk a stack of 6,000 address labels that I got from the Department of Justice," he said. "Six thousand institutions, 6,000 egos, 6,000 systems, 6,000 sets of protocol. There is no standard intake anywhere. I keep that stack on my desk to remind me how complicated they have made it. "

In the absence of federal, state or local legislation requiring penal institutions to use standard intake procedures that include verification of an inmate's military history, veterans' advocates across the country are pressuring the courts to at least inquire about veteran status during the bail-screening process.

But Taylor Halloran, who recently retired as the VA's liaison to veterans in New York's downstate prisons and jails, said there are more than a few reasons why veterans might refuse to divulge their military background.

Halloran emphasizes that many veterans offer fake Social Security numbers or aliases at intake, or they fail to report their arrests to VA because they fear the loss of benefits -- which is at least partially true. Health care benefits are suspended for the term of an inmate's incarceration and, after 60 days, disability benefits are reduced by about half, but those too should be reinstated when a veteran is released.

Lots of veterans don't know or understand the VA's policies, many have families that depend on those checks, and the VA has a reputation for taking its time reinstating benefits after an inmate is released.

So it's sort of a devil's bargain: identify themselves and lose half of their disability benefits, or take a chance they won't get caught. But if they do, they are royally screwed.

They have to pay the government back with interest and fines, but the far more serious consequence is that they lose all future benefits, including health care, disability and education.

To many, the risk seems worth taking. A 1999 Inspector General's report sharply criticized the VA's failure to "implement a systematic approach to identify incarcerated veterans and dependents, resulting in additional past and future overpayments exceeding $170 million dollars."

A 2004 VA Performance and Accountability Report found $5.7 million in benefit overpayments in a 20 percent sample of cases, and the report noted that "tracking 100 percent of these cases would not be cost beneficial."

Halloran said he had to work to get his potential clients to come forward voluntarily. And even then, he "couldn't touch the guys the VA doesn't consider veterans -- anyone with a dishonorable or bad-conduct discharge." One in six incarcerated veterans has been dishonorably discharged.

New Wars, Old Problems

Although the data are imperfect, one thing the BJS surveys do well is identify trends and patterns. For example, its last survey showed that at about 40 percent, Vietnam-era veterans still constitute the vast majority of vets in state and federal prisons.

The Gulf War involved far fewer soldiers and lasted for only six months, but at 15 percent of the veteran population in state and federal prisons, they constitute the newest wave. Veterans of the Gulf War are almost twice as likely to be incarcerated as demographically comparable non-veterans.

At 4 percent of the incarcerated veteran population, Iraq and Afghanistan veterans were only just beginning to show up in the 2004 BJS survey.

"It takes quite a while for these folks to show up in the criminal justice system," Chris Mumola explained. "They are out there in these conflicts, having these experiences, coming back, getting into trouble with the criminal justice system, being fully adjudicated, winding up in prison, and only then are they available to be interviewed in these surveys. It may take years and years to marinate before it really manifests itself. "

Unfortunately, the next BJS survey is not scheduled until 2012.

However difficult those populations might be to track, it would seem that if ever there was a population that should be easy to count, it's prisoners. Every one has a number. Files are kept. There are forms -- and now computerized records -- from which patterns might be gleaned.

And prisons aren't the only black holes into which our nation's damaged warriors are disappearing. They also end up in hospitals and mental institutions. They vanish beyond the margins of society when their lives, their marriages, their careers fall apart. They end up in boxes on the street, vilified, forsaken, and self-medicating. Far too many die too soon of disease, accidents, overdoses or suicide.

An honest accounting of their numbers would be ammunition for those who believe that soldiers and veterans are still not receiving the care and support they need.

It would help challenge the myth of the romantic warrior by better educating our children to the real dangers of military service. It would also contribute to a public better informed about the hidden costs of our military ventures, including the ongoing damage to our citizens and our treasury, and to our national character as well.
Penny Coleman is the widow of a Vietnam veteran who took his own life after coming home. Her book Flashback: Posttraumatic Stress Disorder, Suicide and the Lessons of War was released on Memorial Day 2006.
==================================


Very interesting article, sad yet true. How do you turn off years of mental conditioning? When we separate from the service either of our free will or a injury, we are given nothing. We must seek help ourselves or forever deal with everything the best we can. The suicide rates for soldiers are at an all time high and I can tell you why.
Frustration with an impossible system and nobody there to pick us up once we've fallen. We are brain washed that to ask for help is weakness, to suffer any malady much less a mental one is not for a soldier. We would be looked at as yellow belly maggots for going to sick call, much less section 8's or mental cases are fucked with without mercy. There is no room for the weak, there is no help for the ones that leave,.. unless you know which door to knock on and the secret password,.. and you can live long enough for that door to be opened even slightly.

Brothers n sisters, there is a door and together we can kick that mother fucker in. :) If you are frustrated with Veterans Affairs handling your case, switch your case over to the PVA and let them handle your claim,.. Paralyzed Veterans of America. They will help you even if you are not paralyzed and they are an excellent non profit veterans advocate group. There are others, just don't settle if you hit a stone wall without trying every avenue possible as there are many.

I'm always here for anyone much less a disabled veteran seeking help and support. Life is limited and precious, now get off your arse and make the best out it :) Remember you are still a soldier, we never had un-soldier training, your ranks were never removed, your oath to support and defend the constitution is lifetime. But how you do it is up to you :)

Here , this will help :volcano:


SSG Bonez
 
M

mrdizzle

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I think there has to be a little more to the story. Grabbing a gun while being assaulted by a group of people isn’t a crime, it doesn’t even say he shot it does it? Sounds like a jury of 12 people heard the evidence and found he committed a crime. I don’t think giving vets the green light to act in normal everyday life as if they were in a Warfield.

There should be some sort of exit interview to determine the vets mental state post war, followed by concealing and group sessions( I’m pretty sure there are already) but maybe make it mandatory, and maybe identify vets that are traumatized and give them specialized attention to help them return to a semi-normal life
 
monkeybone

monkeybone

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Hi Mr D-
You are right, there is certainly more to the opening story of this article. But what I get and want others to know is you can't magically turn off years of combat conditioning, much less the trauma of taking another human's life or watching your brothers in arms blood drip off your uniform as you carry him to safety only to feel his life slip away.
When we are in need of help and go to a Veterans Hospital, we are rejected or have to pay for any treatments that are not 100% service connected. In order to get an injury or illness service connected we must jump through a 4 year average process of filing claims, going to comp and pension review boards, examinations and through background checks,.. then hope the doc that you see isn't a rejection artist. Its not at all surprising that so many vets including myself are now considered felons and criminals for doing the exact same thing the government ordered us to do abroad.


The VA does have mental health counseling if you are able to go in and tolerate an extensive mental health file being made on you and the 'group' therapy approach to everything.


On that soldier that grabbed his assault rifle because he got into a fight,.. if he was in genuine fear for his life, I don't care what he used to protect himself,.. but if he had the state of mind to get away from the conflict and went back to it with a gun to solve his problems,.. that is stepping into criminal unacceptable behavior no matter who did it.


I see a lot of reports of murders wearing a uniform slaughtering people for fun,.. these are not solders,..they are nothing more then psycho's who sought this outlet as an excuse to exercise the ability to destroy life. Ask any soldier if taking a life is ever easy or a good thing. A soldier will tell you its the hardest thing they ever had to do and will regret ever being forced to make that decision,.. and the remnants will haunt them until the day they leave this existence.
 
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mrdizzle

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Its def a fucked up situation, I couldnt imagen what the outlook on life is like after serving in a brutal war. The impact war goes on much longer than the actual fighting
 
monkeybone

monkeybone

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Suicide is Painless

July 30, 2010
Associated Press

WASHINGTON -- An Army report on the record number of Soldier suicides says the trend reflects a rise in risky behavior including drunken driving and drug abuse in a military stretched to the breaking point by the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.

The report says the Army is failing its Soldiers by missing signs of trouble, or by looking the other way as commanders try to keep to tight schedules required to meet deployment schedules.

The Army vice chief of staff, Gen. Peter Chiarelli, said Thursday that statistics on levels of drug and alcohol abuse, car accidents and crime suggests that Soldiers are taking more risks while discipline has slipped.

The Army counted 160 suicides last year, the highest total ever. The rate was above that of the civilian population for the second year in a row.

The study counted an additional 146 deaths in 2009 that it says were due to murder, drug overdoses or other causes the Army lumps together as risky behavior.

There were also 1,713 known suicide attempts last year.

The ramped-up tempo of Army life, with faster deployments and too little time at home, underlies the problem but is not its sole cause, Chiarelli said.

Most suicides occur early in a Soldier's Army career, and some come before a Soldier has deployed.

The report raises the possibility that part of the increase in risky behavior comes from an increase in young Soldiers attracted to the wartime force precisely because it is dangerous.

"Looking across the Army, the [report] team found that there appeared to be an overall increase in high-risk behavior," the report said.

"Leader accountability had atrophied," the report said. "There were too many gaps and seams in programs and processes that allowed high-risk behavior to continue undetected and seemingly unchecked."

Among dozens of recommendations are increases in drug and mental health staffs and ways to encourage Soldiers to seek help.

Chiarelli said he would like to see supervisors at all levels intervene before problems get out of hand and accurately report problems when they occur.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I want to know how other nations' military branches and personnel are treated and handled. I want to have some comparisons, see if there are examples that we can take a cue from and do better by our people.

The sentence Mr. Thomas derived is, in itself, criminal. Talk about an abuse of PATRIOT! But I won't get into PATRIOT or any similar here, that's a whole other rant in itself.
I think there has to be a little more to the story. Grabbing a gun while being assaulted by a group of people isn’t a crime, it doesn’t even say he shot it does it? Sounds like a jury of 12 people heard the evidence and found he committed a crime. I don’t think giving vets the green light to act in normal everyday life as if they were in a Warfield.
That one doesn't get to me anywhere nearly as much as the guy in Ione, at Mule Creek.
mrdizzle said:
There should be some sort of exit interview to determine the vets mental state post war, followed by concealing and group sessions( I’m pretty sure there are already) but maybe make it mandatory, and maybe identify vets that are traumatized and give them specialized attention to help them return to a semi-normal life
It's an extensive article, buried in there is the fact that there are several thousand facilities and NOT A ONE has a standard intake, either.

SO many broken pieces, bits and parts of this system, all of it greased by money, there is so much to say and discuss about this one issue. And for me it's rather poignant at this moment as my stepson has begun his very first day home after spending six years in the Navy. We're thankful he was never deployed to a combat scenario, but that doesn't alleviate the tension, misgivings, worries, etcetera, that we have for others who have or are so deployed. Nor does it relieve us *all* of a collective responsibility, one which we as a nation have, as is so typical of us, created a monstrosity of a bureaucracy that does not, in fact, truly perform as we the people had tasked them to perform. Isn't the first thing we want to see happen to all who've served that they be given adequate support, help, whatever, after their service? Isn't the goal to have happy, productive members of society? No, apparently not.

I believe the this country seems to think that throwing money at a problem will fix it or make it go away, when in fact it may compound the problem, when in fact other mechanisms must be in place.

Because, let's face it, power corrupts.
 
F

Frank_Castle

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8
I can add a little bit of personal experience into this; I have severe PTSD and the need to have a weapon around is very real. In states where it is legal I open carry... and not just the gun but the entire belt system. .45, 3 extra magazines, 2 flashlights.
In the house I often find myself carrying a handgun with me from room to room and moving it so that it is always in arms reach.
I literally dont feel comfortable without a weapon on me. I know logically that this is unnecessary but if it relaxes my body and brain there seems to be little downside to it all.
Just a weird side effect is all.
 
beezleb878

beezleb878

226
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just because it is not easy for them to turn off the combat mentality it is also not appropriate to give leniency when they break the law.

Now I have no problem with going after the system and perhaps those in the system that enable him to get through the cracks and I am for ensuring he gets proper help but not a get out of jail free card because its a shame.

Not to take anything away from the soldier but he was not a combatant and yes while he was on a base that was shelled from time to time he was not direct combatant so I find it so hard to believe the article as it has the feel of being twisted and presented in a way to draw the reader in a certain view point or feeling I think.

I dont see it as a genuine news article but a political article.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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Leniency is one thing, but did you read in the article that they are, on average, sentenced to two years more than anyone else? How about something called 'fairness'?
 
beezleb878

beezleb878

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I see it as a poor effort to address the issue. I assume they do not get better in prison for the most part so the potential or rearrest may be high among that demographic.

Perhaps it is a knee jerk reaction and part of the problem overall in the failing of these people but I do not believe we have a justice system that is blatantly and across the board giving veterans tougher sentences based on that aspect alone.

I would like to see a study that looks at the issue in a bit more detailed way so that we can see the reasoning for the sentences. I am sure it is easy to portray those statistics to illustrate many things depending on how in depth or limited the analysis. I do not know if that is the case but since it does not break down things like mandatory minimums sentence versus other sentences and the like.

I do not believe if you had a civilian commit a crime and a veteran commit the very same crime in that same legal covered area that the veteran would get more time based on the military status.

I am with helping these people and doing a better job adjusting not only them but their families and this should include some realistic job placement/relocation assistance when they get out.
 
LordDankinstien

LordDankinstien

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28
I dont think people get how PTSD really effects people in there everyday life.... My close cousin is a veitnam vet he was in there from late 66 to 1970 within that three years he was exposed to agent orange and other chemicals and since has had four different types of cancer the latest was skin cancer he just had that removed last month... While he was in vietnam his first year was shot trying to safe a fellow soldier and was very lucky to live and again when he was 21 was shot out of a heliochopter and broke his back leaving him paralysed for 2 years. Now within that 3 years of him being there he was accounted for 188 confrimed kills... WOW I dont even want to begin to think how that still haunts him, after 90 confrimed was ordered home, but he did not want to go back he was planning on dieing in combat so he petioned to stay, which he did until a year later he was shot out the helio while providing cover fire for a platoon of men waiting for pick up.... Now he lives a life where even still he carry's two guns and two knifes at all times. After he broke his back that army tryed to just get rid of him, know the military was the only thing he had he fought tooth and nail to stay in, eventually after going through the legal process the let him back in, where he joined the army's band playng the guitar. He is probably the nicest guy you meet, but there is one thing still about him that hasnt changed he's always scared of not having a gun for protection. And he has been known to use it pretty offten luckly where he lives the police are happy to have him around to help protect the neighboors since the police station is a 30 minute drive away, they acutally radio (a radio they gave him) him and have him go down and check on who's ever calling for help. You better not break the law, steal something, or hurt someone in front of him. The funniest quote I heard him say last time we visted was "If I HAD to shoot a man up here I'd do it, and the sheriff would understand"
 
monkeybone

monkeybone

Bonez
Supporter
80
16
I can add a little bit of personal experience into this; I have severe PTSD and the need to have a weapon around is very real. In states where it is legal I open carry... and not just the gun but the entire belt system. .45, 3 extra magazines, 2 flashlights.
In the house I often find myself carrying a handgun with me from room to room and moving it so that it is always in arms reach.
I literally don't feel comfortable without a weapon on me. I know logically that this is unnecessary but if it relaxes my body and brain there seems to be little downside to it all.
Just a weird side effect is all.

Hi Frank,
Hyper vigilance is a definite symptom of ptsd, it is accompanied with over reactions to situations you would have handled differently if not is such a serious frame of mind. But you probably already know these things and how best to cope and have a good quality of life. Like all soldiers, we have to make the best out of it as we can, and teach people how not to trigger us. Besides, what good is a gun without a couple backup clips, that's normal :)

If you guys / gals can think of any other group(not race) of Americans per capita is locked up more then Vets, please post it here. If you don't see a pattern with professional soldiers just not giving a fuck about life, no future , live with the pain of a destroyed body or being disfigured, abandoned, forced to take chemicals for the rest of our lives,.. If you don't see why more vets are locked up then any other groups, you are certainly missing the big picture.

A political story? I agree the writer is verbose and dances getting to a point, but the point is far from political. Fuck politicians and the dumbasses who put them in there. 1.2 million vets locked up in one year is pretty dam real. I should know, I was one of them. The soldier in the story getting sent to corrections, well after he was discharged, he was a ticking timebomb. Hmm, a solder released 3 weeks from combat operations, I wonder what would happen if I fuck with him and make him think he was in fear for his life? I dunno, maybe his combat training will take over because this person is still under tremendous pressures and when stressed can and probably will make negative self destructive choices.

What person in their right mind would try to solve a fist fight with an assault rifle? He wasn't in his right mind. What kind of government dumps combat torqued soldiers on the pavement without decompressing them, brainwashing them to be a civilian for a year before releasing them to reserves, so they can still be put through rehabilitation programs. Naa, push them through and push them out so new young recruits can keep the military engine going.

Military combat brainwashing is a mother fucker, and you can't shut it off. You can never make me a normal civilian again, I am a soldier for life. Through herbal medicating I am a much nicer person to be around :) But I am a whole different animal when triggered. I can find a little solace in that knowing my government just wishes I would die to stop costing them so much for care :) So I think I will stick around just to be an asshole :passingjoint:
 
beezleb878

beezleb878

226
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I am with you on much.

I do say that that due to the extensive number of veterans that just because someone gets arrested does not mean it has to do with service related issues. I see the crime in not properly analyzing and treating soldiers before and after discharge and to effectively assist them into implementing society but lets not act like all these vets are mindless zombies who can explode at anytime. That is false and to come off in that manner will do much to cloud the issue of getting people help. If you want to help, advocate to get them help while they are still enlisted and after their enlistment.

I do see it appropriate to hold all people accountable for their actions as if you allow an avenue for the law to give special consideration in these cases than crafty lawyers will be able to seek those considerations for other types of criminals. Such as child abusers being mentally ill. I feel for your view point.

I am a vet and been to war and many other ugly places in the world. I recommend genuinely that you go speak to the old WWII/Korea/Vietnam/combatant guys and ask how they dealt with it. Go to your local VFW and/or American Legion. They will talk to you and offer you what assistance/advice/wisdom they can. Keep in mind, your a pup to them and they have been down that road long before you were a possibility and they live normal lives, you are not imprisoned by what you think, unless you choose to.

Oh yea, fist fights evolve into gun use regularly to almost every day where I live, and I imagine its the same in most cities in America. This genuinely does not stand out as extreme as being a rarity in crime.

Good luck to you and my next vape is in your honor.
 
monkeybone

monkeybone

Bonez
Supporter
80
16
Vets Court Takes Chance on Violent Offenders

Vets Court Takes Chance on Violent Offenders

Source: Stars and Stripes|
By: Megan McCloskey






C.J., a Marine Corps veteran, is handcuffed during a session of California's Orange County veterans court for violating his probation terms for drug charges last month. September 14, 2010



SANTA ANA, Calif. -- In one of Orange County's traditional criminal courts, the young defendant had been seen as an aggressor who had, without provocation, used brass knuckles to beat a middle-aged man at a gas station.

In Judge Wendy Lindley's court, the 22-year-old was all of that, but he was also a former Marine corporal who had served in Iraq.

That made all the difference.

Instead of spending two years in jail, the violent offender is going to therapy for post-traumatic stress disorder, to counseling for substance abuse and, now, to college.

Lindley presides over a court designed for combat veterans, allowing most to avoid incarceration if they plead guilty to their crimes and adhere to a strict probation program focused on intensive treatment of their underlying issues -- in most cases, PTSD.

"These guys went off to war and as a result of their service were damaged, and our job is to restore them to who they were," Lindley said.

Her court in Orange County, near sprawling Camp Pendleton, is one of about 40 specialized veterans dockets that have sprung up across the country in recent years, but Lindley is at the forefront of a new trend for these courts: taking cases involving violent crimes.

Veterans courts are part of the growing national debate about how to deal with struggling veterans who have seen years of war, and about how much, if any, special treatment they deserve.

Many of the jurisdictions that have embraced the veterans court model are in cities with a large veteran population or those near military bases. This year a few states have passed laws calling for veterans courts, and there's proposed federal legislation to help fund the courts.

Skeptics argue that allowing offenders to skip jail simply because they wore the uniform isn't in the best interest of the public, especially when dealing with violence.

But proponents say it's an effort to prevent the cycle of recidivism seen with Vietnam veterans over the last 40 years. There are about 1.7 million Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, and according to a 2009 RAND study, about one in five of them have mental health issues from their time at war. It's those troops -- and their brethren from earlier wars -- that veterans courts are designed to help.

Court is in session

Lindley's court started in 2008. Along with a public defender, a district attorney, a probation officer and an outreach worker from the Department of Veterans Affairs, she supervises the defendants' progression through the formal probation program. It's at least 18 months and consists of mandatory treatment at the VA, frequent court appearances before Lindley, home inspections and random drug testing. If the veteran doesn't comply with the four-phase program, he can be kicked back to criminal court for prosecution. If the veteran is successful, he can walk away felony-free, case dismissed.

Her court is one of only a handful in the country that accepts violent offenders, but as these courts become more popular many are leaning toward taking violent offenses, according to the National Association of Drug Court Professionals.

Given that combat veterans' PTSD issues often manifest in aggressive behavior, "it flies in the face of reason not to take violent cases," said Isabel Apkarian, the court's former assistant public defender. "I don't know how you have a veterans court without taking those clients."

Lindley's team recently debated two prospective violent cases. One involved a vet who had shaken a baby.

"I talked to him in custody for one and half hours," Andrea Serafin, the VA coordinator, told the team. "The severity of the crime is what concerned me, and I wasn't able to make any kind of connection there with his combat experience."

Lindley, who makes the final decision, said the case was "way beyond the pale of anything we intended to take in this court."

They did accept the other case, involving a veteran who had been shot in Iraq and was charged with domestic violence for dragging his wife out of the house by her ankles.

But the team doesn't always agree.

The Marine who left the man at the gas station -- with injuries resulting in $14,000 in medical bills -- almost didn't get accepted.

"I think he kept us all up at night for different reasons," Apkarian said.

She thought if the veterans court didn't take him he would be lost forever.

Wendy Brough, the veterans court prosecutor, opposed him on the record.

"I personally believe that those defendants should get state prison," she said.

The probation officer had his doubts, too, but Serafin thought otherwise.

"I fought hard for him," she said. "I could see him being that normal kid working at Costco doing his thing and going to family barbecues and then he just snapped. And I thought, ‘He needs us.'"

His family fought hard for him, too. Nearly two dozen family members showed up on his behalf, bringing the letters he wrote during his deployment.

"The letters just became darker and darker," Apkarian said.

The Marine's assault victim wasn't convinced. The man was appalled at the idea of his assailant not getting sentenced to jail, Apkarian said.

In his victim's impact statement, the man said the veteran "hit me at least twice in the face so bad that my mouth burst," and that his assailant's military uniform didn't make up for the crime.

Apkarian said it's natural for a victim to want to see someone punished for hurting them, but it was up to the court to balance that with what will protect society in the long run.

"I argue that they and the public are better off. We can warehouse them -- whether its six months or six years -- and they are back on the street without the coping skills they need," she said.

Lindley decided to take a chance on the former Marine.

"And he's doing beautifully," she said.

Last summer, when announcing in court that he was enrolling in college, he teared up as he described how the Marine Corps teaches them not to be emotional, "but in this program I learned to deal with pain, and it brings positive change."

Opening statements

When the veterans arrive in Lindley's court, they're often defeated, ashamed and addicted to drugs or alcohol.

"They have once had the pride of success and of earning their uniform and being a respectable person who's been entrusted with protecting our country. And I think the fall is harder for them for that reason," Lindley said.

Despite the seriousness of the crimes -- assault, domestic violence, and one case of someone carrying grenades -- veterans court doesn't much resemble criminal court.

One recent Tuesday with about 15 veterans sitting on benches in the courtroom, a smiling Lindley strode in wearing her judge's robe and greeted them with "Good afternoon."

The courtroom cheerfully responded in unison, like an elementary school classroom: "Good afternoon."

She called out the veterans' names so each could stand and be recognized with applause. There's a lot of clapping in Lindley's veterans court. Even the prosecutor joins in to give encouragement.

Lindley quickly checks in with each defendant for a progress report that is more like a casual conversation than a formal hearing.

"Adam, come on up," she said last month.

They talked about his kids, whom the judge had met the week before.

"The older one has your eyes," she said.

"You're my principal whenever they ask about you," the veteran said.

Lindley plays a maternal role with the 38 defendants. She says her job is a lot like parenting, doling out praise along with the discipline. She has an easy rapport with the veterans, nodding her head appreciatively as they share successes. But she doesn't hide her disappointment from those who have messed up.

A former Marine corporal didn't make it up to the podium before Lindley was shaking her head and telling him: "You blew it, buddy. Big time. Not smart. Not smart at all."

He hung his head and his parade-rest stance sunk deeper to the floor with each admonishment. The lawyers here are mostly silent. The VA coordinator and the probation officer do the talking. Both expressed sharp disappointment with the former Marine, who had left his treatment facility without permission. The bailiff handcuffed him on his way to a week in jail.

Near the end of the session, a former petty officer third class sat handcuffed, waiting to be taken to jail for failing a drug test.

The public defender pointed out that it was the sailor's birthday.

"OK, you know what we do," Lindley prompted the court. They serenaded him with "Happy Birthday."

"Next year, it's going to be a better birthday," Lindley told him.

Closing arguments

Veterans are a sympathetic group, so it's not hard to persuade people to give them a break, Apkarian said.

But many of the defendants who end up in the criminal justice system are victims of trauma, and Lindley recognizes that her veterans court chooses to elevate one group out of many whose trauma likely influenced their crimes.

But for her, the type of trauma -- war -- makes it acceptable.

"I think we can justify it when we look at combat veterans," Lindley said. "These human beings chose to put their life on the line for our freedom, so I think that intellectually I'm comfortable with saying I think our veterans deserve this special treatment."

California law says only veterans who were in combat are eligible -- a distinction that is important to Lindley and her team. Unlike many of the other veterans courts that take all veterans, they believe the special court is only warranted for combat veterans.

Lindley's team searches for a connection between the combat and the criminal behavior.

"One of the things we do is look at a person's history before they served our country," she said. "If they have no intersection at all with criminal justice, then we conclude that their intersection now is a result of, probably, PTSD, TBI and of course substance abuse as a result of [those conditions]."

That doesn't mean veterans are cleared of guilt -- only that they get a break in sentencing. "I firmly believe we are ultimately responsible for what we do," Lindley said.

Still, she maintains the country needs to take care of its combat veterans, especially since so many don't get the mental health treatment they need while on active duty. In her court she's seen success. Next month, five veterans will graduate from the program.

"We've got to stand up and take responsibility. And this works," Lindley said. "It's just too bad it can't happen before it gets to this point."
©

This article is provided courtesy of Stars and Stripes
 
S

sweetbee

70
8
Medical Thread/ Veterans

thank-you for all for contributing to this thread ,these same issues have confronted veterans forever. How many thousands of young { and not so young adults } have been told " it's all in your mind ", "you submitted the wrong paperwork " "your paperwork wasn't submitted in a timely manner," "the program you applied for has past it's application date", I could go on and on....
These few examples of "deniel of benefits", came from a joint conversation between veterans of the Second World War, the Korean War, The Vietnam War,
both " Desert Storm 1&2, and finally Afghanistan . ( not forgetting Bosnia and an arm length of list of "police actions".
These people coming back from war deserve all the help they can get,. and this bee wants to thank you all for going in "harms way. Bee persistent, support
each other, and your families, and document EVERYTHING! Most importantly . . . share a whole lotta' love - Aloha, Sweetbee
 
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