120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

homebrew420 · Jul 1, 2012

they look real nice. Curious as to the extremely high ppm? we run an ec of 1.4-1.6 under 1000w halides and see NO sign of deficiencies. Just seems like you may be wasting salts is all. I think 1500 is more than needed. Maybe with 1400ppm CO2.
Nice work regardless. Keep it homes.

Peace

dankworth · Jul 1, 2012

pork said:
so i've been playing with this formula as well and seeing your variations across a few other threads...which has led me down (as i imagine, a similar query) of where the balance between synthetic [salts] and organic benes lie...it seems that the deciding factor is phosphorus levels that kill of benes more than others..60ppm even seems to be getting close to the axe for them...

have you been able to pinpoint which salts have a factor in killing off the microbes? if it really comes down to the phosphates, it seems like this mix would rock it outdoor too...i'm nervous using salts outside, and trying to find out a way...

hope all is well in chemo nug landia

So far as I know, the thing that is well-known to kill of bennies is high P. As in 50+ppms according to Cap's info, and I believe JK quoted 60 ppms.

I kept my P artificially low compared to the rest of the formula, and it negatively affected flower development. Brought P back up to where it should be, and morphology showed awesomeness.

She is a heavy feeder, so in a high-performance environment, with decent-sized specimens, she requires enough food ppms to kill off bennies.

Hey I like 5 ppms iron and 2 ppms boron right now scaled to the 120-60-300-etc.

pork · Jul 1, 2012

still keeping Ca at 120? Seems like some nute companies like to believe we can pump up the Ca, how high do you suppose we could take it? Would Mg have to come along?

I've got a friend claiming using Mg at rates of 250ppm...that seems a little outrageous...

dankworth · Jul 1, 2012

pork said:
still keeping Ca at 120? Seems like some nute companies like to believe we can pump up the Ca, how high do you suppose we could take it? Would Mg have to come along?

I've got a friend claiming using Mg at rates of 250ppm...that seems a little outrageous...

Lately I have been doing 120-60-300-147-73.5-whatever the sulfur is.
No K nitrate needed. I will be sticking with this for flowering for a bit I think.

Recently I went to 120-100-350-147-73.5-whatever the sulfur is. I sub MOAB straight across for the MKP at the rate of 1.5 tsp/5 gallons. 1 tsp equals roughly 5.5 grams.
This is for the last 2 weeks of feeding, weeks 6 and 7 for me.

Some recommend a 4:2:1 K:Ca:Mg ratio, seems to work out. Not sure of the impact of bumping Ca more, or interrelations with Mg exactly.

mountain · Jul 19, 2012

Getting up to speed here...

Couple of questions that must have missed the obvious answers to:

1. good sources for 50lb bags of salts - options for sourcing?

2. how are people using silicates / calculating? Dont see anyone mentioning getting bags of potassium silicates salts, or mention of how the K from this influences ratios or how much si they are adding...

Thanks

El Cerebro · Jul 19, 2012

mountain said:
Getting up to speed here...

Couple of questions that must have missed the obvious answers to:

1. good sources for 50lb bags of salts - options for sourcing?

2. how are people using silicates / calculating? Dont see anyone mentioning getting bags of potassium silicates salts, or mention of how the K from this influences ratios or how much si they are adding...

Thanks

http://customhydronutrients.com/zen...oducts_id=68&zenid=8dk3p7qb75i553lckkbr4tskt0

dankworth · Jul 19, 2012

mountain said:
Getting up to speed here...

Couple of questions that must have missed the obvious answers to:

1. good sources for 50lb bags of salts - options for sourcing?

2. how are people using silicates / calculating? Dont see anyone mentioning getting bags of potassium silicates salts, or mention of how the K from this influences ratios or how much si they are adding...

Thanks

I was using pro-tekt @ 1 ml/gal for a while, causes res ph to rise a bit for a bit. Capulator talked about using k silicate only in foliar form to avoid res ph issues. I think peeps may be commonly dropping k silicate in last half of flower, at least that is the impression I got when I was looking into that all high and shit.

Recently had to bump my P to make the ladies happier in veg. Stems stopped turning that ugly color.

And I killed the shit out of my RAs recently with Imidacloprid on sale from home depot, cheap as fuck, only made me feel a little sick over the next few days. Don't touch the medium for a while with bare hands. Do something about the fumes off it, it will make you feel worse. Poisoned.

It will be easier to apply this when the little ones are all installed in buckets.

Capulator · Jul 19, 2012

I wonder how a 120-40-210-120-60 ratio would do. I bet it would be magical. the n:K ratio of 1:1.75 that yosemite sam is all about, the almost 3:2:1 K:Ca:Mg and the 3:1:5 N:P:K/// Then pop your formula weeks 4-7 for the flower power.

May have to look in to this for you on my next run. Switching back to modified jacks for a bit. my plants are not liking their new diet.

ttystikk · Jul 19, 2012

Capulator said:
I wonder how a 120-40-210-120-60 ratio would do. I bet it would be magical. the n:K ratio of 1:1.75 that yosemite sam is all about, the almost 3:2:1 K:Ca:Mg and the 3:1:5 N:p:K/// Then pop your formula weeks 4-7 for the flower power.

May have to look in to this for you on my next run. Switching back to modified jacks for a bit. my plants are not liking their new diet.

Would like to know a couple things, Cap, since it's come up for me recently; first what's the flower formula you mentioned above? And second, you said 'modified' Jacks. Can you give a specific formula for how you're modifying it? I've been trying to dial the stuff in, but my girls are acting finicky. Thanks again, brother!

Capulator · Jul 20, 2012

ttystikk said:
Would like to know a couple things, Cap, since it's come up for me recently; first what's the flower formula you mentioned above? And second, you said 'modified' Jacks. Can you give a specific formula for how you're modifying it? I've been trying to dial the stuff in, but my girls are acting finicky. Thanks again, brother!

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/jacks-back-capulators-new-formulas.50080/

ttystikk · Jul 20, 2012

^^^^ Now that's what I'm talkin' about! Ask a question, he fires up a whole new thread for it- thanks again!

mountain · Jul 21, 2012

Thanks Dankworth and El Cerebro.

Ok, sorry if these are dumb questions:

I spent several hours on the computer and phone to find the ag place that sold these salts. I spent 181.06, and bought 5 50 lb bags of salts, and a 3 lb bag of micros.
I bought
Calcium Nitrate (calnit) 15.5-0-0-19
Potassium Nitrate(Knit) 13-0-44
Potassium Sulfate(Ksulf) 0-0-50-0-0-17
Monopotassium Phosphate(MKP) 0-52-34
Magnesium Sulfate(epsom) 0-0-0-0-9.8-13
And the micros(4.5% iron)

Looking at it http://customhydronutrients.com doesnt look possible to order 50lb sacks for 180 - they dont even have 50lb quantities of Potassium Nitrate...

Dankworth - would you be willing to share the source you used? feel free to pm if you dont want to post it.

What micros are people using? Peters S.T.E.M.?

Can someone be so kind as to walk me through making a direct Protekt replacement from dry salts:

AgSil Potassium Sillicate, 50 pound bag This is a 1.6 weight ratio hydrous potassium silicate powder with 32% K20 and 52.8% SiO2 and 14.8% H2O. (or is there a better source for this salt?)

Protekt is:

Potassium (K2O) 3.7%*

Silicon (SiO2) 7.8%

(from the manufacturer: )

Is this as easy as diluting it 1:10 in water?

El Cerebro · Jul 21, 2012

Hardly dumb questions, esp given most of us just figured it out too. The 50lbers prob aren't practical to ship, and if you're near a decent sized city there will be a larger ag supplier carrying most of it. Unless you have a hefty gig, the 5lb sizes might be good for cutting your teeth.

Some of us are using MOST from jr peters for the micros, similar to STEM but more iron %. Customhydro can prob help you with extra iron if you want to get everything there. The jacks program from jrpeters is solid too. The AgSil is very soluable, just dilute as needed, but be aware it sends the ph upward (sulfuric is good for ph down). KSil is great for foliar too, and handy if the ph swing becomes a pain.

Carl Sagan · Jul 29, 2012

gonna use this profile for the next run, 100% canna coco on drippers

110 N
62 P
175 K
112 Ca
60 Mg
67 S
25 Si
2.3 Fe

Thoughts? I've never had the freedom to dial in my profile until today! I'm using Cal Nit, Jack's Hydro, MOAB, Epsom Salts, CALiMAGic, and Pro-Tekt w/ every feeding. I know many people do the easy 3/2/1 with jacks/calnit/epsom but i really like the ingredients in the other things i've added.

Hope you're all kickin' ass!

El Cerebro · Jul 29, 2012

^maybe add basic micromix like most or stem, then adjust those #s accordingly? and fulvic.
also think about starting ph and how your adjuster might affect P/S/KSi.

are you using actual drippers? if so might need to consider salt build-up/clogging.

Carl Sagan · Jul 29, 2012

hmm, maybe i should grab some MOST, is 2.25 g/gal jacks not enough micros?

thanks for the reply-

im using blumats, have drip clean as well

Capulator · Jul 30, 2012

Carl Sagan said:
hmm, maybe i should grab some MOST, is 2.25 g/gal jacks not enough micros?

thanks for the reply-

im using blumats, have drip clean as well

.05 grams pr gallon if using RO water.

Your formula looks like it needs more N, K, and Ca in veg and certainly more K in flower.

Carl Sagan · Jul 30, 2012

yeah, def running a different mix for veg. I was reading a lot of people talkin' about running 150-175 ppm K for 100% coco for flower.

thanks for tha review! might have to play follow the leader and use 3g of jack's and tweak everything around that. hoards of previous users cannot be wrong..

dankworth · Jul 31, 2012

Carl Sagan said:
yeah, def running a different mix for veg. I was reading a lot of people talkin' about running 150-175 ppm K for 100% coco for flower.

thanks for tha review! might have to play follow the leader and use 3g of jack's and tweak everything around that. hoards of previous users cannot be wrong..

I would recommend copying someone's proven successful formula and then seeing how your cultivar responds in your environment. Then tweak values from there. Push micros to see what happens. You will see increasingly awesome health, then it will be too much, then you back it up. You can do this w/ratios of the micros against eachother, I played w/iron vs boron for a while for instance to confirm best ratios for me.
But whatever you do, copy JK or Yosemite Sam or Cap or Crysmatic or something first for nute values/ratios. Then tweak. And the ratios are the important thing, then play with strengths of solution. As long as the ratios are correct, and the formula is good, you can simply increase the strength to whatever and it will almost certainly hold up.
I am feeding my moms 1800 ppms or so right now.

outwest · Jul 31, 2012

dankworth said:
I would recommend copying someone's proven successful formula and then seeing how your cultivar responds in your environment.

outwest

120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

homebrew420

dankworth

pork

dankworth

mountain

El Cerebro

dankworth

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

mountain

El Cerebro

Carl Sagan

El Cerebro

Carl Sagan

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Carl Sagan

dankworth

outwest

Premium Gardener

120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

120-60-300-120-60-177.2 Nutrient Tutorial, or, My Thread Can Beat Up Your Thread.

homebrew420

dankworth

pork

dankworth

mountain

El Cerebro

dankworth

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

ttystikk

mountain

El Cerebro

Carl Sagan

El Cerebro

Carl Sagan

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Carl Sagan

dankworth

outwest

Premium Gardener

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