1st time grower, seed problems?

[QuindariousGooch]

One reason for the pt method is to soften the outer shell. Sometimes even with pt method they can barely break through the outer shell.

When doing regular planting the seed will soften up just as rapidly in moist soil as in a moist towel. I get what you're seeing here but I think the risk outweighs the benefit. Any handling of the root meristem is going to affect it negatively. Thanks for the input. Do you have anything else that might be a reason people have been doing this forever?

 

[Milson]

When doing regular planting the seed will soften up just as rapidly in moist soil as in a moist towel. I get what you're seeing here but I think the risk outweighs the benefit. Any handling of the root meristem is going to affect it negatively. Thanks for the input. Do you have anything else that might be a reason people have been doing this forever?

Keeping that moisture and temp at the right place in soil, especially outdoors, is harder than in a baggie on your fridge. Too dry or too wet in bad soil is not trivial to avoid.

Now for me as an indoor grower obsessed with my environment and knowing I can replicate conditions pretty reliably with my chosen medium (jiffy pellet), I would way rather do it all there. Really the initial soak is an attempt to weed out duds, I guess.

 

[Budw3is3r]

I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.

The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?

Bud

 

[Milson]

I would, yes.

 

[QuindariousGooch]

But on the other hand , I have no problem dropping my seeds into a solo cup filled with pro mix , moistened with a mister and a piece of Saran Wrap and a rubber band for 2 days , then under t 5 lights ......

Keeping that moisture and temp at the right place in soil, especially outdoors, is harder than in a baggie on your fridge. Too dry or too wet in bad soil is not trivial to avoid.

Now for me as an indoor grower obsessed with my environment and knowing I can replicate conditions pretty reliably with my chosen medium (jiffy pellet), I would way rather do it all there. Really the initial soak is an attempt to weed out duds, I guess.

Thanks for the input....I agree with the rooting out duds. I think this may be the main reason it is done from what I've heard over the years. I love Jiffy pellets because they work great. I agree outdoors straight in the ground is not the way to go. Any that don't make it leave a hole in the canopy and lost production if that's the goal. I'm still looking for a benefit outside the cost of the germination media. I challenge everyone to place a seed into a Jiffy pellet, dirt, rockwool...whatever. Put it on your kitchen counter and see how well it works. We pop 30-100 seeds every 1-6 months and we load the rockwool with 1200 ppm veg nutes and water with the same. We put them right into a 6" x 6" block and sprout without a hood under HPS bulbs about 3-4 feet above (our regular mom building room). Hoods cause stretchy plants (especially if they are old and blocking light). Then they have to adapt when the hood is removed... the seed plants have roots ergo do not need a hood.
My summarizing point is bigger than pre-soaking seeds. There are so many practices that have become lore even though they are not optimal. People guessing in their garage on the best way to do things or talking to the "guy at the grow shop" who was most likely trained by product reps. We no longer have to settle for mediocre advise from well-meaning unqualified mentors.

It might be a good thread to have people share "things I was told to do that ended up being less than best practices" or "the guy at the grow shop told me to do it".

Cheers
Quuindarious Gooch

 

[QuindariousGooch]

I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.

The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?

Bud

Yeah, put it back and let it pop. One thing I do that decreased the amount of "stuck seeds" in the rockwool is to split the A-OK with the grain. This will reveal vertical columns through the material. I place the seed in with the scar pointing up about 1 to 1.5 inches deep. This is important because it allows the seed to properly shed the shell and the binding membrane that hold the cotyledons inside the seed. Plat too shallow and it will pop with the shell attached and potential lead to a fail. I have planted seeds 3-4 inches deep right into the rockwool block. it took a couple extra days but they did great. I believe this would not work so well if you do not load the rockwool with nutrients. We start our seeds in 1200 ppm (500 scale) soaked into the block initially and water with the same. Seeds generally need less nutes so "they" say but we do better with nutes on board.
I would also suggest putting that A-OK into the 6"block now so that when it throws the tap root down it will not be impeded by air. Looking forward to seeing what you find out.
Cheers
Q

 

[QuindariousGooch]

The lights I have are Migro 600:

MIGRO | Buy LED grow lights here

MIGRO - Buy the best modular, highly efficient and full spectrum LED grow lights here

www.migrolight.com

Based on the stretching do you think the intensity needs turning up?

Thanks Bud

I think the fact you are using a hood is the main cause of your stretching. We were using the same lids (if still clean) for 1 year+...never again... clones started failing. we finally noticed they were not as wet with condensation as newer hoods....changed them out and the clones did well again. Seedlings can handle almost any reasonable environment they emerge into as long as they remain watered and fed properly. Get rid of the hood in your germination process and I believe you will be a happier grower. I'll see if can upload a couple pics of seeds we are popping right now...Terp Daddy i think.

 

[QuindariousGooch]

But on the other hand , I have no problem dropping my seeds into a solo cup filled with pro mix , moistened with a mister and a piece of Saran Wrap and a rubber band for 2 days , then under t 5 lights ......

I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.

The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?

Bud

I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.

The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?


Bud

This is exactly what they look like from the day we plant....no hoods, no special lighting, humidity currently in that room
36.3 with 79.6 temp and a VPD 2.2. Against all the rules but they are doing great. We very regularly run new genetics.
In 100's of examples and varieties the seeds do the best like this. We never get them flopping over either...my guess is the nutes from the start are the hero on that issue.

Notice how clean and strong this seedling looks. It has been able to shed the shell and membrane and is ready to open up.
As you can tell by the algae it's getting nutes (120ppm on a 500 scale).

 

[QuindariousGooch]

Just had 18 hours light.

Watered each plug with 5ml of RO water.

The big fella that I bent accidentally looks like it was starting to show promise.

Hopefully that little fella will spring into life.

Bud

Hey Bud, props again for trying out what is suggested...free advise is worth what you pay. That doesn't make it wrong or bad but I believe in testing out ideas and methods. Well done Sir. I am interested to hear what you learn from your experiment. I am always glad to share hard-earned info with people who will actually consider and test out if it is benefit.
I'm in a commercial grow running about 3200 plants in four rooms in 2 weeks cycles. We just see more. To boot we grow on vertical walls under LEDs. That doesn't make us better or smarter...just more exposed to situations. If you think I can help with anything let me know... Always glad to share advice with fellows sincere growers.
Note... the 2nd pic is an older shot when we ran with sodium lights... LEDs are killing it...really too intense for our set up. We run at 40% to start and build a few % every few days but never full power because it's hard to keep them watered and transpiration rates were so high we had to re-do the dehu plan for the room.

This is about 1 week in...

Cheers,
Quindarious

 

[dire wolf]

I have a question regarding paper towels and seeds and glass jars for germination. Why is this done? What is the reason for it, is there a benefit? Why wouldn't you just put the seed into the media you're going to germinate it in and decrease the risk of damaging either meristem? Everyone does it but no one can tell me what the benefit is outside of it's cool to see it.

Hey Q , your "question" seems more like a challenge , where you gently asked opinions then aggressively knocked each answer down with a know it all attitude

Please don't tag my name in on a response that ends up with " we no longer have to settle for mediocre advice from unqualified mentors ....

Not sure if you were referring to my answer but I will tell you that the paper towel method is a great way to start seedlings and I know you will find hundreds of experienced growers here who use it

Looks like budw3is3r is having a shitload of problems using your technique, I guarantee if he started his germ in paper towel , got a taproot started and split the rock wool and oriented the seedling inside , he would have been better off....

Also I've been handling that big word " meristem" at the seedling stage with no damage , ever , so that right there may be some unqualified advice.....

I germ about 600 seeds in a 6 month period , and have 30 years grow experience , so to each his own so please don't come in here with a friendly and curious question then rant about how it's all wrong , or at least don't attach my name to it when you've declared how things are done by " commercial pros" like yourself....

Putting a seedling in a jiffy pot on your counter will have much more unpredictable results than using a paper towel in a warm dark place....

 

[Kanzeon]

For whatever this is worth, I've had by far the most success starting the seeds in about an cm of 50/50 dampened coco and ewc at the bottom of a pint deli container with the lid on. Then backfill as they stretch, and repot only once there's a node. When in doubt, wait to repot unless they're struggling.

Why the lid? Because it retains humidity, which helps the seedlings take their coats off. When I had them in lower humidity conditions, I had more of them fail to get them off altogether. It's easy to leave it cracked to adjust the ventilation.

Why the deli containers?

• Landrace beans can be all kinds of temperamental, so I want the ability to have the seedlings of each strain to be in a different microclimate when they're the weakest.
• Some beans seem to need a few wet/dry cycles before they germ, this way I can see exactly when they need more water.
• It's nice to be able to pick them up from below to see where the roots are growing, what they look like, moisture level, etc.
• They're easy to sterilize between uses. Fill it with 175 degree water, let them sit for a minute, dump, wipe with isopropyl, and it's ready to go for the next round. Could even microwave it after that to be extra nuts (these are obviously the heatproof deli containers).

Although honestly, @Aqua Man 's post earlier today has me curious about the effects of a transparent 3 gallon grow container. I might have to go hunt down a 12 quart cambro one of these days and flower out one of these Blue Dream clones in it, just to see the difference.

 

[Budw3is3r]

Hey Q , your "question" seems more like a challenge , where you gently asked opinions then aggressively knocked each answer down with a know it all attitude

Please don't tag my name in on a response that ends up with " we no longer have to settle for mediocre advice from unqualified mentors ....

Not sure if you were referring to my answer but I will tell you that the paper towel method is a great way to start seedlings and I know you will find hundreds of experienced growers here who use it

Looks like budw3is3r is having a shitload of problems using your technique, I guarantee if he started his germ in paper towel , got a taproot started and split the rock wool and oriented the seedling inside , he would have been better off....

Also I've been handling that big word " meristem" at the seedling stage with no damage , ever , so that right there may be some unqualified advice.....

I germ about 600 seeds in a 6 month period , and have 30 years grow experience , so to each his own so please don't come in here with a friendly and curious question then rant about how it's all wrong , or at least don't attach my name to it when you've declared how things are done by " commercial pros" like yourself....

Putting a seedling in a jiffy pot on your counter will have much more unpredictable results than using a paper towel in a warm dark place....

For sure, next time it's the paper towel method.

 

[Budw3is3r]

Hello All,

Just curious and noticed that this fella only has one of the cotyledon... checked previous photos and it looks like it always just had one. Does it matter?

Thanks

Bud

 

[Budw3is3r]

Also, noticed that the big fella in rockwool and clay pebbles (because I damaged the stem) has slight yellow on the tip of the leaves... what do you think?

Bud

 

[bigslimdawg79]

Hello All,

Just curious and noticed that this fella only has one of the cotyledon... checked previous photos and it looks like it always just had one. Does it matter?

Thanks

Bud

should be fine they are just pilot leaves

 

[Milson]

She's growing new leaves so nbd.

 

[bigslimdawg79]

what happened to the leaf ? just wasnt there?

 

[Budw3is3r]

what happened to the leaf ? just wasnt there?

Yeah just always had 1!

 

[bigslimdawg79]

ahh yah u should be good i had this before just didint get born with two leaves haha

 

[Milson]

Thanks for the input....I agree with the rooting out duds. I think this may be the main reason it is done from what I've heard over the years. I love Jiffy pellets because they work great. I agree outdoors straight in the ground is not the way to go. Any that don't make it leave a hole in the canopy and lost production if that's the goal. I'm still looking for a benefit outside the cost of the germination media. I challenge everyone to place a seed into a Jiffy pellet, dirt, rockwool...whatever. Put it on your kitchen counter and see how well it works. We pop 30-100 seeds every 1-6 months and we load the rockwool with 1200 ppm veg nutes and water with the same. We put them right into a 6" x 6" block and sprout without a hood under HPS bulbs about 3-4 feet above (our regular mom building room). Hoods cause stretchy plants (especially if they are old and blocking light). Then they have to adapt when the hood is removed... the seed plants have roots ergo do not need a hood.
My summarizing point is bigger than pre-soaking seeds. There are so many practices that have become lore even though they are not optimal. People guessing in their garage on the best way to do things or talking to the "guy at the grow shop" who was most likely trained by product reps. We no longer have to settle for mediocre advise from well-meaning unqualified mentors.

It might be a good thread to have people share "things I was told to do that ended up being less than best practices" or "the guy at the grow shop told me to do it".

Cheers
Quuindarious Gooch

Yeah man, I'm all about questioning and experimenting for improvement. That said, a lot of the old time advice is acquired knowledge capital that has had a lot of value for a lot of people. Wasn't long ago that nobody knew how to get pot to grow well in most of the US.

Everything can be refined, but people aren't idiots for catching up w the knowledge capital of the community of pot growers.

I def agree a thread of "challenges to common practices that have worked for me" would be very valuable.