When doing regular planting the seed will soften up just as rapidly in moist soil as in a moist towel. I get what you're seeing here but I think the risk outweighs the benefit. Any handling of the root meristem is going to affect it negatively. Thanks for the input. Do you have anything else that might be a reason people have been doing this forever?One reason for the pt method is to soften the outer shell. Sometimes even with pt method they can barely break through the outer shell.
Keeping that moisture and temp at the right place in soil, especially outdoors, is harder than in a baggie on your fridge. Too dry or too wet in bad soil is not trivial to avoid.When doing regular planting the seed will soften up just as rapidly in moist soil as in a moist towel. I get what you're seeing here but I think the risk outweighs the benefit. Any handling of the root meristem is going to affect it negatively. Thanks for the input. Do you have anything else that might be a reason people have been doing this forever?
But on the other hand , I have no problem dropping my seeds into a solo cup filled with pro mix , moistened with a mister and a piece of Saran Wrap and a rubber band for 2 days , then under t 5 lights ......
Thanks for the input....I agree with the rooting out duds. I think this may be the main reason it is done from what I've heard over the years. I love Jiffy pellets because they work great. I agree outdoors straight in the ground is not the way to go. Any that don't make it leave a hole in the canopy and lost production if that's the goal. I'm still looking for a benefit outside the cost of the germination media. I challenge everyone to place a seed into a Jiffy pellet, dirt, rockwool...whatever. Put it on your kitchen counter and see how well it works. We pop 30-100 seeds every 1-6 months and we load the rockwool with 1200 ppm veg nutes and water with the same. We put them right into a 6" x 6" block and sprout without a hood under HPS bulbs about 3-4 feet above (our regular mom building room). Hoods cause stretchy plants (especially if they are old and blocking light). Then they have to adapt when the hood is removed... the seed plants have roots ergo do not need a hood.Keeping that moisture and temp at the right place in soil, especially outdoors, is harder than in a baggie on your fridge. Too dry or too wet in bad soil is not trivial to avoid.
Now for me as an indoor grower obsessed with my environment and knowing I can replicate conditions pretty reliably with my chosen medium (jiffy pellet), I would way rather do it all there. Really the initial soak is an attempt to weed out duds, I guess.
Yeah, put it back and let it pop. One thing I do that decreased the amount of "stuck seeds" in the rockwool is to split the A-OK with the grain. This will reveal vertical columns through the material. I place the seed in with the scar pointing up about 1 to 1.5 inches deep. This is important because it allows the seed to properly shed the shell and the binding membrane that hold the cotyledons inside the seed. Plat too shallow and it will pop with the shell attached and potential lead to a fail. I have planted seeds 3-4 inches deep right into the rockwool block. it took a couple extra days but they did great. I believe this would not work so well if you do not load the rockwool with nutrients. We start our seeds in 1200 ppm (500 scale) soaked into the block initially and water with the same. Seeds generally need less nutes so "they" say but we do better with nutes on board.I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.
The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?
Bud
I think the fact you are using a hood is the main cause of your stretching. We were using the same lids (if still clean) for 1 year+...never again... clones started failing. we finally noticed they were not as wet with condensation as newer hoods....changed them out and the clones did well again. Seedlings can handle almost any reasonable environment they emerge into as long as they remain watered and fed properly. Get rid of the hood in your germination process and I believe you will be a happier grower. I'll see if can upload a couple pics of seeds we are popping right now...Terp Daddy i think.The lights I have are Migro 600:
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Based on the stretching do you think the intensity needs turning up?
Thanks Bud
But on the other hand , I have no problem dropping my seeds into a solo cup filled with pro mix , moistened with a mister and a piece of Saran Wrap and a rubber band for 2 days , then under t 5 lights ......
I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.
The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?
Bud
I opened up one of the rockwool plugs to see what's happening with it and then put it back.
The taproot is there, do I just leave it for nature to do it's thing?
Bud
This is exactly what they look like from the day we plant....no hoods, no special lighting, humidity currently in that room
36.3 with 79.6 temp and a VPD 2.2. Against all the rules but they are doing great. We very regularly run new genetics.
In 100's of examples and varieties the seeds do the best like this. We never get them flopping over either...my guess is the nutes from the start are the hero on that issue.
Notice how clean and strong this seedling looks. It has been able to shed the shell and membrane and is ready to open up.
As you can tell by the algae it's getting nutes (120ppm on a 500 scale).
Hey Bud, props again for trying out what is suggested...free advise is worth what you pay. That doesn't make it wrong or bad but I believe in testing out ideas and methods. Well done Sir. I am interested to hear what you learn from your experiment. I am always glad to share hard-earned info with people who will actually consider and test out if it is benefit.Just had 18 hours light.
Watered each plug with 5ml of RO water.
The big fella that I bent accidentally looks like it was starting to show promise.
Hopefully that little fella will spring into life.
Bud
Hey Q , your "question" seems more like a challenge , where you gently asked opinions then aggressively knocked each answer down with a know it all attitudeI have a question regarding paper towels and seeds and glass jars for germination. Why is this done? What is the reason for it, is there a benefit? Why wouldn't you just put the seed into the media you're going to germinate it in and decrease the risk of damaging either meristem? Everyone does it but no one can tell me what the benefit is outside of it's cool to see it.
For sure, next time it's the paper towel method.Hey Q , your "question" seems more like a challenge , where you gently asked opinions then aggressively knocked each answer down with a know it all attitude
Please don't tag my name in on a response that ends up with " we no longer have to settle for mediocre advice from unqualified mentors ....
Not sure if you were referring to my answer but I will tell you that the paper towel method is a great way to start seedlings and I know you will find hundreds of experienced growers here who use it
Looks like budw3is3r is having a shitload of problems using your technique, I guarantee if he started his germ in paper towel , got a taproot started and split the rock wool and oriented the seedling inside , he would have been better off....
Also I've been handling that big word " meristem" at the seedling stage with no damage , ever , so that right there may be some unqualified advice.....
I germ about 600 seeds in a 6 month period , and have 30 years grow experience , so to each his own so please don't come in here with a friendly and curious question then rant about how it's all wrong , or at least don't attach my name to it when you've declared how things are done by " commercial pros" like yourself....
Putting a seedling in a jiffy pot on your counter will have much more unpredictable results than using a paper towel in a warm dark place....
should be fine they are just pilot leavesHello All,
Just curious and noticed that this fella only has one of the cotyledon... checked previous photos and it looks like it always just had one. Does it matter?
Thanks
Bud
Yeah just always had 1!what happened to the leaf ? just wasnt there?
Yeah man, I'm all about questioning and experimenting for improvement. That said, a lot of the old time advice is acquired knowledge capital that has had a lot of value for a lot of people. Wasn't long ago that nobody knew how to get pot to grow well in most of the US.Thanks for the input....I agree with the rooting out duds. I think this may be the main reason it is done from what I've heard over the years. I love Jiffy pellets because they work great. I agree outdoors straight in the ground is not the way to go. Any that don't make it leave a hole in the canopy and lost production if that's the goal. I'm still looking for a benefit outside the cost of the germination media. I challenge everyone to place a seed into a Jiffy pellet, dirt, rockwool...whatever. Put it on your kitchen counter and see how well it works. We pop 30-100 seeds every 1-6 months and we load the rockwool with 1200 ppm veg nutes and water with the same. We put them right into a 6" x 6" block and sprout without a hood under HPS bulbs about 3-4 feet above (our regular mom building room). Hoods cause stretchy plants (especially if they are old and blocking light). Then they have to adapt when the hood is removed... the seed plants have roots ergo do not need a hood.
My summarizing point is bigger than pre-soaking seeds. There are so many practices that have become lore even though they are not optimal. People guessing in their garage on the best way to do things or talking to the "guy at the grow shop" who was most likely trained by product reps. We no longer have to settle for mediocre advise from well-meaning unqualified mentors.
It might be a good thread to have people share "things I was told to do that ended up being less than best practices" or "the guy at the grow shop told me to do it".
Cheers
Quuindarious Gooch
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