"This bill is fucking stupid, and the only thing that can sway this thing to pass is people with monetery intentions who would like to expand the market from a few hundred thousand patients to millions of consumers"

not to mention every californian over 21 will be protected by these new law, that can now possess,purchase, and grow there own.

but thats not good either. i mean what would you do if you lost all your illegal cliental to legitimate business? if i sold my herb illegally i wouldnt want this bill to pass either.

joker quote"Remember this is the tax and regulate bill, not the let people grow it for free bill"

actually joker it is a let people grow for free bill. you can cultivate as long as you are over 21 for your own personal consumption!!! yes in a 5x5 area. and also you can keep all that you grow! if you cant turn a 5x5 area in to a at least a couple pounds per year. maybe you should be buying you bud!

but you know that already because you read this bill and comprehended properly. good job. let me just help you here real quick....



(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.


how nice of me to prove my idiotic self right again. read it this time joker, and dont live up to your name. after jumping in so late id expect a good argument, with facts, not your complete non truth account of this bill.

If i was only growing for myself for personal use than 25sq ft would be plenty for me...A 4x4 tent for flower and a 2x4 tent for veg would be enough for my personals...but thats just me....I personally wouldnt need to have more than an ounce out in public for personals either but again thats just me...

I can see how this Bill would be good for some and bad for others...I dont think it will effect me at all if it passes since we are still protected by prop 215..

quote by joker "The reasoning behind only being able to posess an oz at a time is this. If you need to smoke more than an oz recreationally, you will have to buy it from the people who will tax you. If they don't make it difficult to grow , ( C'mon, you have to be a retard to not be able to grow an oz in a 5x5 area.) they won't make any money taxing you on what you buy."

how is growing personal weed in a 5x5 that difficult? and if you read the bill correctly is says its publicly unlawful to posses, share, lalalal more then a oz. let me explain that to you. it means you cant have more then an ounce outside you private residence. also that you cant buy more then an ounce at a time, this is for 21 and older rec users. (wait a minute joker! i thought you said they want us to buy all are weed from them so they make profits and contribute tax dollars, but they are gonna limit recreational users to one ounce at a time? and continue to allow medical marijuana? that almost makes sense)

refer to my last post to see what else 21 and older californians are afforded with this bill. like growing there own, for free, untaxed weed, and not having any possesion amounts for people growing there own. if fact you can have as much weed in your house as you want. you just cant purchase more the an oz at a time, and you cant resell it, or give it to minors.

that sounds awful for the weed community doesnt it?

i was only half way thru your post joker, and ive to correct that much misinfo.

ograskal said:

If i was only growing for myself for personal use than 25sq ft would be plenty for me...A 4x4 tent for flower and a 2x4 tent for veg would be enough for my personals...but thats just me....I personally wouldnt need to have more than an ounce out in public for personals either but again thats just me...

I can see how this Bill would be good for some and bad for others...I dont think it will effect me at all if it passes since we are still protected by prop 215..

Click to expand...

same here bro.

joker quote."Who this bill is good for is the occasional smoker. For hardcore fiends who smoke morning , noon and night, this will not help you."

what are you talking about? this helps the non medi smoker of 21 years of age and older!!!especially if they smoke all day!!! now they can just go buy some herb. when before, it was illegal. so what are you talking about?? oh yeah, i guess ill repeat myself again, they can legally grow there own tax free weed, and have as much as they want!!!!!!!

"Counties are already fighting prop 215. My county refused to support it until 2 years ago when a person I know won a 6 year court case that cost him over a 100 K and his marriage. Law enforcement happily cooperated with feds to bust med patients".

yeah and i bet he was charged with a federal offence. not a local, county or state charge.
the fact is 215 offers us state rights that cant be overtuned by any local government.
the only choice local govt has is wether or not to allow dispensaries in there community. you can grow your 6 mature plants in any county of this state without fear of arrest or penalties.

quote from the genius peron: "It limits personal possession to one ounce and cultivation to a five-by-five plot, or 25 square feet. This is guaranteed to keep law enforcement employed raiding and prosecuting people for marijuana."

so legalizing possession and cultivation for everyone over 21, is going guarentee law enforcment will continue prosecuting people for mj??? wtf???? does this make sense to anyone?

i believe that person is confusing rec herb and medi herb. again. right now cops can bust anyone growing who is not a medi patient weather its 1 plant or whatever. if this bill passes that same person will not be breaking the law possessing or growing as long as he or she grows in a 5x5 and doesnt take out of the house more then an oz. as long as he doesent give any to minors, that person will not have any problems if this new bill passes.

peron quote "It explicitly criminalizes the commercial sale, production, and cultivation of marijuana in cities and in counties that do not tax and regulate marijuana "without limitation". "

genius..commercial sale is criminalized right now!!! there is no commercial herb. it doesnt exist! legally anyway. this bill gives us an opportunity to create that market!! legally! it will be on the state books as a legal business to pursue. rules and regs will be county to county or city to city just like medi herb is today. and once again i think this person is interpreting this bill to say they cant act as a collective to provide for medical patients. and thats just not true since it explicitly says medi patients will be exempt.

The Joker said:

Danko, I've read every page before I made a comment. I've also been asking questions of Oaksterdam regarding all of these topics and their answers do differ slightly from yours.

I'm surprised at you claiming others have no reading comprehension when your arguments make no sense and contradict what you cut and paste. I understand that how people appear on the net and who they really are , are miles apart. But your online persona comes across as a moron. I hope that is miles apart from who you are.

The fact of the matter is that the bill has some vague areas that are just plain bad.

Remember this is the tax and regulate bill, not the let people grow it for free bill. The reasoning behind only being able to posess an oz at a time is this. If you need to smoke more than an oz recreationally, you will have to buy it from the people who will tax you. If they don't make it difficult to grow , ( C'mon, you have to be a retard to not be able to grow an oz in a 5x5 area.) they won't make any money taxing you on what you buy.

Who this bill is good for is the occasional smoker. For hardcore fiends who smoke morning , noon and night, this will not help you.

Counties are already fighting prop 215. My county refused to support it until 2 years ago when a person I know won a 6 year court case that cost him over a 100 K and his marriage. Law enforcement happily cooperated with feds to bust med patients.

Dennis Peron:

Peron claims this is not legalization but "thinly veiled prohibition". The flyer (prepared by KC Kimber of California Cannabis Inc.) advertising the boycott lists the following points:
It limits personal possession to one ounce and cultivation to a five-by-five plot, or 25 square feet. This is guaranteed to keep law enforcement employed raiding and prosecuting people for marijuana.
It explicitly criminalizes the commercial sale, production, and cultivation of marijuana in cities and in counties that do not tax and regulate marijuana "without limitation".
It "sends the wrong message" by placing the age limit the same as alcohol, even though marijuana is much safer.
It makes public consumption illegal, creates new felonies where there were none before, and makes it illegal for parents to smoke in front of their own kids.
It will limit competition and create monopolies by preventing ordinary people from getting into the business.
It should be noted that Oakland has limited the number of medical marijuana dispensaries that may operate in that city to four, and that they each pay $30,000 per year for a business license. Further, that these four dispensaries were the proponents of Measure F, which increased the tax medical marijuana patients pay in Oakland for medicine from $1.20 per $1,000 to $18 per $1,000; a total increase of about $350,000 paid in taxes on the cost of medicine by the sick and dying in Oakland per year. Additionally, they intend to spend $1 million on the signature drive to get their tax and regulate initiative on the ballot.
This adds up to the sick and dying in Oakland paying $120,000 per year for business licenses, $350,000 in taxes, and $1 million for a signature drive to tax and regulate them and their medicine. This is on top of the several hundred dollars each one has to pay every year for their recommendation and county identification card.

So, yes, having read it, contemplated it, asked questions and carefully read the answers through email with the proponents, I am voting against it.

Click to expand...

seriously there are so many thing wrong with what dennis peron believes its unreal! 1.20 to 18 dollars per 1000???lemme see....thats a tax rate of .018. good luck buying anything with less tax attached. shit 1000 in food (a necessity) you will pay almost $100 in tax.
on the back of oaklands sick and dying???? give me a break! i bet 90% of med patients are anything but dying dude. my rec is for insomnia.

im too tired to continue fighting all this. the info is there, believe what you will. i hope for the herb community out there you all get your facts straight and vote yes.


peace!

ograskal said:

If i was only growing for myself for personal use than 25sq ft would be plenty for me...A 4x4 tent for flower and a 2x4 tent for veg would be enough for my personals...but thats just me....I personally wouldnt need to have more than an ounce out in public for personals either but again thats just me...

I can see how this Bill would be good for some and bad for others...I dont think it will effect me at all if it passes since we are still protected by prop 215..

Click to expand...

So you would throw out all your mothers and breeding projects to comply with this stringent restriction?

An ounce in public is fine, but this bill doesn't explicitly grant you protections for possession over an ounce in your house unless you cultivated yourself and even that protection is vaguely worded. Lets say I wanted to buy an ounce of every ogr strain, and my home was searched on unrelated grounds. Since a non-med user would only be allowed possession of a ounce, police could potentially arrest or fine that individual. What the fine or sentence would be seems to be up to local governments to decide. How many of you are happy with how the local governments have handled medical marijuana?

You stand to benefit should this bill passes ogr, your strains are in such high demand, you have nothing to worry about and everything to gain, should you choose to commercially cultivate. Given your current connections to the industry, I would imagine you would have no problems doing so. What happens when small growers apply for licensing and are turned down? Find a new career ?

Danko without Dennis Peron you wouldn't even be in California.

Show some fucking respect to him and other members of this forum

"An ounce in public is fine, but this bill doesn't explicitly grant you protections for possession over an ounce in your house unless you cultivated yourself and even that protection is vaguely worded"

THE DO'S (WHAT NON MEDI PATENTS/PRIVATE CITIZENS CAN DO)

C. Intent
1. This Act is intended to limit the application and enforcement of state and local laws relating to possession, transportation, cultivation, consumption and sale of cannabis, including but not limited to the following, whether now existing or adopted in the future: Health and Safety Code sections 11014.5 and 11364.5 [relating to drug paraphernalia]; 11054 [relating to cannabis or tetrahydrocannabinols]; 11357 [relating to possession]; 11358 [relating to cultivation]; 11359 [possession for sale]; 11360 [relating to transportation and sales]; 11366 [relating to maintenance of places]; 11366.5 [relating to use of property]; 11370 [relating to punishment]; 11470 [relating to forfeiture]; 11479 [relating to seizure and destruction]; 11703 [relating to definitions regarding illegal substances]; 11705 [actions for use of illegal controlled substance]; Vehicle Code sections 23222 and 40000.15 [relating to possession].

Section 3: Lawful Activities
Article 5 of Chapter 5 of Division 10 of the Health and Safety Code, commencing with section 11300 is added to read:
Section 11300: Personal Regulation and Controls
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, it is lawful and shall not be a public offense under California law for any person 21 years of age or older to:
(i) Personally possess, process, share, or transport not more than one ounce of cannabis, solely for that individual’s personal consumption, and not for sale.
(ii) Cultivate, on private property by the owner, lawful occupant, or other lawful resident or guest of the private property owner or lawful occupant, cannabis plants for personal consumption only, in an area of not more than twenty-five square feet per private residence or, in the absence of any residence, the parcel. Cultivation on leased or rented property may be subject to approval from the owner of the property. Provided that, nothing in this section shall permit unlawful or unlicensed cultivation of cannabis on any public lands.
(iii) Possess on the premises where grown the living and harvested plants and results of any harvest and processing of plants lawfully cultivated pursuant to section 11300(a)(ii), for personal consumption.
(iv) Possess objects, items, tools, equipment, products and materials associated with activities permitted under this subsection.
(b) “Personal consumption” shall include but is not limited to possession and consumption, in any form, of cannabis in a residence or other non-public place, and shall include licensed premises open to the public authorized to permit on-premises consumption of cannabis by a local government pursuant to section 11301.

THE DONT'S (WHAT NON MEDI PATIENTS/ PRIVATE CITIZENS CANNOT DO)

(c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:
(i) possession for sale regardless of amount, except by a person who is licensed or permitted to do so under the terms of an ordinance adopted pursuant to section 11301;
(ii) consumption in public or in a public place;
(iii) consumption by the operator of any vehicle, boat or aircraft while it is being operated, or that impairs the operator;
(iv) smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present.





all these acts are lawful after this bill passes. right now any of those acts gets you at least a fine and up to imprisonment.

obviously if you can grow your own and keep all of it, you can posses as much as you want in your home. as long as it stays in your home, you dont sell it, you dont give it to minors, and you either grew it yourself, or you bought it and brought it home 1 oz at a time.
and thats for non medi patients!!!!! if your medi keep on doin what your doin.

kushpheen said:

Danko without Dennis Peron you wouldn't even be in California.

Show some fucking respect to him and other members of this forum

Click to expand...

your are a joke dude. just because dude has a rep doesnt mean he's not feeding you with bullshit. i read your post bud. and i also disproved all of his claims. with actual factual literature. i dont try and back my claims with the claims of others.

danko said:

"This bill is fucking stupid, and the only thing that can sway this thing to pass is people with monetery intentions who would like to expand the market from a few hundred thousand patients to millions of consumers"

not to mention every californian over 21 will be protected by these new law, that can now possess,purchase, and grow there own.

YOur still not protected from anything thats what you fail to see....now you get a 100 dollar fine....if this passes you get no fine...either way the feds can get you anythime....

but thats not good either. i mean what would you do if you lost all your illegal cliental to legitimate business? if i sold my herb illegally i wouldnt want this bill to pass either.

Click to expand...

If you work for a collective your doing it as legally as everybody...who has ilegal clientel?

danko said:

your not handing over anything. and kushpeeh all you did was repeat the residence residents thing. that was over forever ago.

And its true

"You my sir are keeping us behind tryin to expand the market is what this bill is really about....good for you your opening a collective....which you will probably turn into a recreational supplier once legalized, smart...."

two days ago you said only coroporations would be able to grow. what happened to that stupid argument? and yes thats exactly what i will do.

thats still stands, it will be very difficult to start once this passes....thats why you are getting started now? so there no difference from YOU and Richard Lee...


"and if your a collective...keep on trucken bro! grow for all your buds in your collective. it stays the same! guarantee the penalties will not be jail unless you grossly over grow you limits. which means you got caught cause you were selling it. or showing people, opera0ting illegally. that just wouldnt be smart. same as right now."

"keep on getting trucked over by recreation marijuana suppliers "

hey man, if your collective doesnt like your weed, thats because you suck. my people love my herbs!!! i have no doubt weather im growing for medical or recreational that my herb will be in demand.

Its not about liking it, a collective will no longer be effective if there are commercial ops suppling the herb...

"thats the fucking mentality im worried about ignorants who just wanna smoke...WOW...plus like u said it federally illegal anyway....right now the fine is $100 dollars for possesion of an ounce or less....so were going to open up a industry to capalist just to avoid a 100 dollar fine ?

there wont be a fine for an ounce!!! it will be legal!!! so we are going to open up a industry to capitalists???? no man. we will start a whole new economy for weed, that doesnt include money. good thinking!!!

An economy that includes the ppl trying to keep you from smoking for so many years....that doesnt sit well with me...


"This bill is fucking stupid, and the only thing that can sway this thing to pass is people with monetery intentions who would like to expand the market from a few hundred thousand patients to millions of consumers"

right! and your problem is????

Click to expand...

that this herb as you call it is the last free economy that the government hasnt tapped into...that should be left up to the growers to cultivate and distribute as much as they want. If this bill passes it keep any better bills from happening ....there are many things that should be revised....how many pounds of oregano can i legally posses ? so why a limit on marijuana ? well to keep the taxes coming of course ...oregano doesnt have the value cannabis does so why would any one cultivate it on there own? that why thing are limited ....so they can keep you paying taxes and filling there pockets ...

kushpheen said:

So you would throw out all your mothers and breeding projects to comply with this stringent restriction?

An ounce in public is fine, but this bill doesn't explicitly grant you protections for possession over an ounce in your house unless you cultivated yourself and even that protection is vaguely worded. Lets say I wanted to buy an ounce of every ogr strain, and my home was searched on unrelated grounds. Since a non-med user would only be allowed possession of a ounce, police could potentially arrest or fine that individual. What the fine or sentence would be seems to be up to local governments to decide. How many of you are happy with how the local governments have handled medical marijuana?

You stand to benefit should this bill passes ogr, your strains are in such high demand, you have nothing to worry about and everything to gain, should you choose to commercially cultivate. Given your current connections to the industry, I would imagine you would have no problems doing so. What happens when small growers apply for licensing and are turned down? Find a new career ?

Click to expand...

Of course i wouldnt throw anything away....I am protected by prop 215 and wouldnt have to comply with these restrictions...I was just saying that IF i was only growing for personal stash that a 5x5 area would be plenty for me....The fact is I dont only grow for myself so its really not enough space for me...get it?....Like I said before this Bill is good for some but bad for others..I am still undecided on how I'm gonna vote.....I'm guessing your average toker that doesnt sell is gonna vote yes on this so he can grow his own and toke for free...~ogr

skyhi said:

if you work for a collective your doing it as legally as everybody...who has ilegal clientel?



That this herb as you call it is the last free economy that the government hasnt tapped into...that should be left up to the growers to cultivate and distribute as much as they want. If this bill passes it keep any better bills from happening ....there are many things that should be revised....how many pounds of oregano can i legally posses ? So why a limit on marijuana ? Well to keep the taxes coming of course ...oregano doesnt have the value cannabis does so why would any one cultivate it on there own? That why thing are limited ....so they can keep you paying taxes and filling there pockets ...

Click to expand...

what? Why is the fact that the state wants it taxed such a big deal to you? You pay tax every time you buy from a dispensary. They pay taxes too!! You cannot exchange anything for cash without having to pay taxes on it. What are you in high school? Or just some idealist?

Have you not got it yet? Pass this bill and you (a private non medi citizen) can grow your own and never buy or pay taxes on weed ever again!!!!
Have you read any of the shit i posted or are you on such a grudge fest you havent managed to pick up any new info here.

Ive posted it 30 times. Pass this bill and grow your own!!! Keep it all and smoke it down with whoever you want!!!! And never pay a cent in taxes on your herb.

ograskal said:

of course i wouldnt throw anything away....i am protected by prop 215 and wouldnt have to comply with these restrictions...i was just saying that if i was only growing for personal stash that a 5x5 area would be plenty for me....the fact is i dont only grow for myself so its really not enough space for me...get it?....like i said before this bill is good for some but bad for others..i am still undecided on how i'm gonna vote.....i'm guessing your average toker that doesnt sell is gonna vote yes on this so he can grow his own and toke for free...~ogr

Click to expand...

its so nice hearing a reasonable voice on this thread bro. Thanks

kushpheen, if this law passes wont you be able to keep doing what your doin since your are protected under prop 215?...or will this change thingz for you?...Just trying to understand why your so against it....I could really care less if it passes or not tell you the truth....As long as it doesnt fuck with our med laws I aint really trippin...~ogr

ograskal said:

Of course i wouldnt throw anything away....I am protected by prop 215 and wouldnt have to comply with these restrictions...I was just saying that IF i was only growing for personal stash that a 5x5 area would be plenty for me....The fact is I dont only grow for myself so its really not enough space for me...get it?....Like I said before this Bill is good for some but bad for others..I am still undecided on how I'm gonna vote.....I'm guessing your average toker that doesnt sell is gonna vote yes on this so he can grow his own and toke for free...~ogr

Click to expand...

I know your a med patient/provider, I was implying if you were a non-med user would you still abandon your breeding projects and mothers, or just try to confine them to a 5x5 area?

your are a joke dude. just because dude has a rep doesnt mean he's not feeding you with bullshit. i read your post bud. and i also disproved all of his claims. with actual factual literature. i dont try and back my claims with the claims of others.

Click to expand...

The only joke here is someone fresh off the boat, who has lived in California all of 2 months, who took a weekend seminar at cannabis school, and has trouble comprehending not only the deeper ramifications of this initiative but the simple differences between similar sounding words, is trying to come off as a legal scholar, while belittling and insulting members of this site who share a far different view than you.

Dennis Peron co-authored prop 215, without him you would of never gotten off the boat in the first place. The only facts you've given here is you have little comprehension of the English language and are more than happy to insult other people to try and prove your point.