2010 Tax, Regulate and Control Poll

[ograskal]

Its nice to have family members close by that are able to help you with your passion and business. Unfortunately, that's not the case for many of us. I only have a handful of ogr and cali-connect strains and I would hate to be put in the position where I had to choose which ones could fit in a 5x5 area if I were a non-med grower.

Patients and dispensaries have great political clout, but the same can't be said for growers, who lack any sort of organized entity lobbying on their behalf. Please talk with your friends that are vendors, ask them how they feel this initiative will affect them personally and how they think they will be able to adapt to a recreational cannabis economy.

I am definately gonna talk to them about it and see how they feel for sure...So if you were a non med user and didnt sell but only grew for your own personal smoke, how much space would you need?.....Just curious?...~ogr

 

[kushpheen]

I am definately gonna talk to them about it and see how they feel for sure...So if you were a non med user and didnt sell but only grew for your own personal smoke, how much space would you need?.....Just curious?...~ogr

Not sure bro, I do know I would like to be able to make that decision for myself though, rather than having a local government make the decision for me.

I would love to hear back from you once you to talk your friends and hear what their opinions are.

Btw if you did get a commercial cannabis license, I would rather be working for you than oaksterdam thats for sure.

 

[ograskal]

Yeah it would be nice if we could make up our own laws and do whatever the fuck we wanted to but that shit aint happening...So what if the new BILL said MJ was totally 100% legal and anybody could grow and sell as much as they wanted to with no restrictions on grow area or possesion..would you be happy with that?..~ogr

 

[kushpheen]

Yeah it would be nice if we could make up our own laws and do whatever the fuck we wanted to but that shit aint happening...So what if the new BILL said MJ was totally 100% legal and anybody could grow and sell as much as they wanted to with no restrictions on grow area or possesion..would you be happy with that?..~ogr

With a $100 doctors note thats essentially how it is now and I'm not complaining.

 

[ograskal]

Well with our med laws we have now we are restricted on plant count and possession....I'm saying if this new BILL would make weed 100% legal for recreational use and anybody could grow and sell as much as they wanted to with no restrictions on grow area or plant count or possesion, would you be happy with that?

 

[kushpheen]

Bro what plant and possession limits are you referring to? Your local government was stripped of the authority to regulate those conditions. Does that mean your local LEO understand or comply with the recent supreme court decision regarding possession and plant limits, no of course not, but it does give you an affirmative defense should you find yourself in a courtroom.

Regardless if it would make me happy that's not what this bill intends to do. If everyone was allowed to possess and cultivate as much as they wanted it would truly make cannabis a free market that anyone was allowed to enter and participate in. I believe quality would trump quantity in that sort of economy, as it does now. But since the state's legislature will be regulating commercial cannabis cultivation and distribution and none of us know what the licensing process qualifications or costs will be. It is feasible that these licenses will be so expensive only a handful of well connected agri-corps will be approved or able to afford the licensing process. Since no limits are being placed upon commercial growers in this initiative, it is also feasible that a few giant agri-corps who were lucky or well connected enough to get commercial licenses will be able to control the vast majority of cannabis production within our state. Since local governments can then choose who, when and where pot gets sold. Retail sales outlets would be required to sell only state approved cannabis, from these lucky few companies. Which eliminates the small time growers, who are really the backbone of our cannabis economy. This is the group of people I'm really trying to defend, mostly because they have no voice in this proposed system.

 

[ograskal]

I'm saying if this new BILL would make weed 100% legal for recreational use and anybody could grow and sell as much as they wanted to with no restrictions on grow area or plant count or possesion, would you be happy with that? just looking for a yes or no answer bro..thanks...~ogr

 

[SkyHi]

I would say yes it is a plant after all, that should have never been ilegal in the first place

 

[ograskal]

I would say yes it is a plant after all, that should have never been ilegal in the first place

Thats what I'm talkin about!...~ogr

 

[kushpheen]

yes, happy as a clam

 

[ograskal]

.............................

 

[Sirius]

It is true a lot of us will go out of business. But come on guys... This is what we always wanted.. Regardless of Lee and his marketing schemes, this is a step in the right direction. I don't know about you but I am tired of being labeled as an outlaw or saying I suffer from a serious condition. That condition is oppression! I would hope the numbers change on this poll.

 

[SkyHi]

No not a step in the right direction, it's a step backward. The stigma isn't going away over night...don't u see the limits imposed are set to keep you paying taxes and not be self sufficient . The supreme court just lifted limits now where going to put more rstrictions. The way his bill is written is very poorly it restrcts it more than alcohol. We. Need to legalize it this just isn't the best way...we need to hold out and demend a better initiative

 

[kushpheen]

Insulting members and ignoring moderator warnings normally has its consequences. But it seems like in the case of danko, the behavior is being rewarded with a troll exemption. This lack of respect towards myself, other members, founders of the medical marijuana movement, moderators and the site altogether, is simply unacceptable. Since this initiative insults the intelligence of anyone smart enough to interpret its intentions and ramifications, its proponents obviously must continue in that same spirit, insulting or belittling any of its opponents in a vain attempt to persuade others. I refuse to stoop to this level.

Thanks to all those who chimed in respectfully with logic and reason, whatever your position may have been. But my work here is done, time to focus my attention and energies in a more positive direction.

 

[ograskal]

You guys were both being rude to eachother. wasnt only him. This Bill is good for some and bad for others period...~ogr

 

[Sirius]

No not a step in the right direction, it's a step backward. The stigma isn't going away over night...don't u see the limits imposed are set to keep you paying taxes and not be self sufficient . The supreme court just lifted limits now where going to put more rstrictions. The way his bill is written is very poorly it restrcts it more than alcohol. We. Need to legalize it this just isn't the best way...we need to hold out and demend a better initiative

This bill isnt going to strip med patients of any of their rights. how is that so? We can amend the bill in the future. And if this passes that is exactly what is going to happen once people start buying hid's and realizing how expensive it actually is to grow decent pot.

 

[SkyHi]

This bill isnt going to strip med patients of any of their rights. how is that so? We can amend the bill in the future. And if this passes that is exactly what is going to happen once people start buying hid's and realizing how expensive it actually is to grow decent pot.

So we should jump into this bill and just try and amend it later? sorry dude i disagree ...and i would really love to see where the bill says that prop 215 will not be affected (not that i dont believe you) but it just doesnt make sense for them to have two seperate divisions medical and recreational....are med patients that are 18 still going to be able to get meds ?

 

[kushpheen]

This bill isnt going to strip med patients of any of their rights. how is that so? We can amend the bill in the future. And if this passes that is exactly what is going to happen once people start buying hid's and realizing how expensive it actually is to grow decent pot.

Bro voter approved initiatives have to be amended by another voter approved initiative. Since this initiative lets local government regulate cannabis commerce within their cities and allows the legislature to regulate commercial cannabis production and distribution, we are being asked to sign a blank check to the politicians to regulate cannabis in a judicious manner. The same exact politicians who are currently fighting to limit dispensaries, and patients/growers personal possession and cultivation rights. Thats like trusting a catholic priest to babysit a boyscout troop.

Its taken nearly 15 years for the medical cannabis laws in this state to through long expensive legal battles to give patients and growers the protections we enjoy today. Many of us have fought on the front lines of that battle in courtrooms and jail cells. Since the initiative doesn't outline the sentences or fines for the cannabis crimes it creates like;
-possessing amounts greater than an ounce, in public or your home
-cultivating in area greater than 25sqft (is this measured by canopy or footprint btw?)
-smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present. (a particularly troubling restriction for parents, because what defines present? in the same room?, same house ?)
-consumption in public or in a public place (the beach, an outdoor concert, a park...etc, which could also be construed as smoking while minors are present)

Its hard to support an initiative that leaves these new cannabis crimes to the interpretation of local governments and our states legislature. What may just be a fine in one city could potentially pose a more serious offense in other.

 

[CAPO]

Thats like trusting a catholic priest to babysit a boyscout troop.
.

hahahahahahahaha...........................man that is exactly the part I don't like ....the shizz that is NOT in the bill.

 

[kushpheen]

So we should jump into this bill and just try and amend it later? sorry dude i disagree ...and i would really love to see where the bill says that prop 215 will not be affected (not that i dont believe you) but it just doesnt make sense for them to have two seperate divisions medical and recreational....are med patients that are 18 still going to be able to get meds ?

Thats a very good question, I would imagine so, but will they have to purchase from strictly medical dispensaries? or will recreational retail outlets be able to open their doors to these patients under 21 as well? This section doesn't seem very reassuring though...
"(c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense."
-it doesn't explicitly make exemptions for medical patients 18 and over.

As far as the initiative not affecting medical marijuana laws let me see if I can find the section.... After reading this bill over and over again, I can't find a single section that addresses any impact this initiative will have on our medical marijuana laws. Neither upholding or condemning them. If anyone can find this language in the bill, please post it.

heres some more troubling wording in this initiative I came across.
"1. This Act is intended to limit the application and enforcement of state and local laws relating to possession, transportation, cultivation, consumption and sale of cannabis."
-it just intends to limit the enforcement not allow explicitly. Which means possessing, transporting, cultivating and consuming cannabis will still remain crimes to some degree. But is possessing 2 ounces the same as possessing 2 pounds, or cultivating in area 6x6 the same crime as cultivating in area 60x60. To what extent these crimes will enforced and punished by your local governments is to be determined by each and every local government respectfully. Since this bill neglects to specifically outline the fines/sentences for violating the 1 ounce or 25sqft limits, its anybody's guess as to how harsh or lenient your local governments will choose to make them.

"Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold..."

"Strictly controlled" is not very reassuring terminology, for those wishing to open retail outlets or cultivate commercially.

"prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;"

What "other remedies" are there besides jail? community service?