PhatNuggz
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- 163
I began the hydro journey 2.5 years ago, after a several year hiatus when I used soil. Over time I came to realize that hydro and aero is not the same. To bad the mods don't understand this as TAG should have its' own subheading.
After several lost starts with drip (root rot), I morphed my grow on the fly as I explored alternatives like: fog, and low pressure spray bars. I came across a 10 year old TAG thread, which incorporated high pressure pumps (but an open system). I call mine TAG 2.0 because the parts are significantly better and cheaper today. Back then high pressure low flow mist heads (0.0092gpm) were not only expensive but one needed good plumbing skills to incorporate. Also the pumps were too big, too noisy and failed frequently under the demands. I have been using my Aquatec 8800 (<$90) almost constantly for 1.5 years and it's still going strong. A huge benefit is that it is fitted with 3/8 John Guest quick connect fittings (as are the reptile mist heads), making assembly super easy.
Most of my TAG parts were sourced from Reptile Basics, Lowes, and a Sentinel MDT -1, which 'may' turn out to be overkill. Even though HPA (high pressure aero) uses similar parts, HPA means the nutrients are kept under pressure via an accumulator. Nutrients are delivered under full pressure as soon as the cycle cracks open, allowing for very deep cycle feed times- typically under one second. I finally concluded that an open system does not respond the same way to short feed cycles. Eureka!
For the purist, HPA is the ultimate. Me being a pragmatist, I wanted to see how close I could come to HPA without the expense, complexity, and floor space needed for an accumulator.
HPAs ultimate claim to fame is its' ability to deliver precise amounts of nutrients (<1 second feed) roughly every minute or so, under full line pressure. The benefit of this is that the plants are constantly feeding but only enough to provide the energy the plant needs during that cycle. Therefore they never starve, but constantly ready to eat 24/7. Nutritionists say we would be healthier if we ate 5-7 smaller meals throughout the day, instead of waiting until we get really hungry and stuffing our faces.
As the root chamber (pod) is repeatedly filled with minute quantities of an atomized mist, root development is significantly different from all other hydro methods where some portion of the roots are literally soaking in nutrients 24/7. This is why DWC roots look like matted swollen spaghetti. The more surface area the greater the amount of nutrients can be taken in.
Misting the pod alters the tap roots' growth. Instead of seeking water at the bottom of the pod, lateral roots develop (called fish bones) to collect the misted nutrients. This in effect multiplies (quadruples is closer to accurate) the roots' surface area.
In the beginning plant growth is slower than other hydro systems as the energy is going to develop the lateral roots. Once a nice root system develops, plant growth explodes. Now, lateral roots are not the be-all-end-all. They achieve maximum efficiency when they are covered with fuzzies (look like pipe cleaners) called root hairs. Nail this and your plant will take care of itself!
A consequence of frequent feeding is the plants need much lower ppms, which can be a considerable savings per grow; makes those designer nutes more attractive.
So, root hairs being my goal, I assumed the only way to get them is to approximate as best I could HPAs extremely short feed cycles. It has taken me almost two full grows to realize that an open system (non pressurized) will not develop root hairs using short feed cycles.
The problem is that an open system means the line pressure drops to zero between each feed cycle: so, the time it takes for the pump to achieve >50 psi might be a couple seconds, during which the nutrients are not fully atomized and therefore not filling your pod.
I figured this out after starting a back up grow several weeks ago. My lowest cycling back up timer's minimum on time is 30 seconds. I thought I would be drowning my roots. I probably would but I compensated by using an extended pause cycle. A 30 second feed cycle followed by a 30 minutes pause {edit 3/8- increased pause to 45 minutes} in a 14G pod using a dual mist head, and I am seeing lots of root hairs.
So, today I increased my cycle times in the main pod to 15 seconds feed and 15 minutes pause. Why not 30/30? Well in the back up I am using a UFO 90 LED (no heat), in the main room I am using 400 watt HO, 8 bulb T 5, so I want to make sure the extra heat does not dry out the roots inside the pod. I am still experimenting with increasing the pause
Please let me know if you are interested in keeping this going. Next up would be sizing pods and the number of plants per pod.
hths to dispel the mystery known as TAG and HPA.
After several lost starts with drip (root rot), I morphed my grow on the fly as I explored alternatives like: fog, and low pressure spray bars. I came across a 10 year old TAG thread, which incorporated high pressure pumps (but an open system). I call mine TAG 2.0 because the parts are significantly better and cheaper today. Back then high pressure low flow mist heads (0.0092gpm) were not only expensive but one needed good plumbing skills to incorporate. Also the pumps were too big, too noisy and failed frequently under the demands. I have been using my Aquatec 8800 (<$90) almost constantly for 1.5 years and it's still going strong. A huge benefit is that it is fitted with 3/8 John Guest quick connect fittings (as are the reptile mist heads), making assembly super easy.
Most of my TAG parts were sourced from Reptile Basics, Lowes, and a Sentinel MDT -1, which 'may' turn out to be overkill. Even though HPA (high pressure aero) uses similar parts, HPA means the nutrients are kept under pressure via an accumulator. Nutrients are delivered under full pressure as soon as the cycle cracks open, allowing for very deep cycle feed times- typically under one second. I finally concluded that an open system does not respond the same way to short feed cycles. Eureka!
For the purist, HPA is the ultimate. Me being a pragmatist, I wanted to see how close I could come to HPA without the expense, complexity, and floor space needed for an accumulator.
HPAs ultimate claim to fame is its' ability to deliver precise amounts of nutrients (<1 second feed) roughly every minute or so, under full line pressure. The benefit of this is that the plants are constantly feeding but only enough to provide the energy the plant needs during that cycle. Therefore they never starve, but constantly ready to eat 24/7. Nutritionists say we would be healthier if we ate 5-7 smaller meals throughout the day, instead of waiting until we get really hungry and stuffing our faces.
As the root chamber (pod) is repeatedly filled with minute quantities of an atomized mist, root development is significantly different from all other hydro methods where some portion of the roots are literally soaking in nutrients 24/7. This is why DWC roots look like matted swollen spaghetti. The more surface area the greater the amount of nutrients can be taken in.
Misting the pod alters the tap roots' growth. Instead of seeking water at the bottom of the pod, lateral roots develop (called fish bones) to collect the misted nutrients. This in effect multiplies (quadruples is closer to accurate) the roots' surface area.
In the beginning plant growth is slower than other hydro systems as the energy is going to develop the lateral roots. Once a nice root system develops, plant growth explodes. Now, lateral roots are not the be-all-end-all. They achieve maximum efficiency when they are covered with fuzzies (look like pipe cleaners) called root hairs. Nail this and your plant will take care of itself!
A consequence of frequent feeding is the plants need much lower ppms, which can be a considerable savings per grow; makes those designer nutes more attractive.
So, root hairs being my goal, I assumed the only way to get them is to approximate as best I could HPAs extremely short feed cycles. It has taken me almost two full grows to realize that an open system (non pressurized) will not develop root hairs using short feed cycles.
The problem is that an open system means the line pressure drops to zero between each feed cycle: so, the time it takes for the pump to achieve >50 psi might be a couple seconds, during which the nutrients are not fully atomized and therefore not filling your pod.
I figured this out after starting a back up grow several weeks ago. My lowest cycling back up timer's minimum on time is 30 seconds. I thought I would be drowning my roots. I probably would but I compensated by using an extended pause cycle. A 30 second feed cycle followed by a 30 minutes pause {edit 3/8- increased pause to 45 minutes} in a 14G pod using a dual mist head, and I am seeing lots of root hairs.
So, today I increased my cycle times in the main pod to 15 seconds feed and 15 minutes pause. Why not 30/30? Well in the back up I am using a UFO 90 LED (no heat), in the main room I am using 400 watt HO, 8 bulb T 5, so I want to make sure the extra heat does not dry out the roots inside the pod. I am still experimenting with increasing the pause
Please let me know if you are interested in keeping this going. Next up would be sizing pods and the number of plants per pod.
hths to dispel the mystery known as TAG and HPA.