4-site / 5k watts vertical (DIY- UC x MPB)

[turboz]

Here is a little pic update. The roots are finally developing well into the buckets and the growth has really been picking up.

 

[aSilvrHaze]

look at them pearly whites ;p

 

[ALLegal420]

Picture time...

Just did a flush (drained, filled with tap, ran for about an hour, drained, filled with tap and added nutes, etc.)... added H202, cal-mag, Ionic Grow and PH Down (710-720ppm; 6.0-6.1PH currently; 60 degree water temp; 78 degree room temp; 750-800ppm CO2). Switching from General Hydroponics to Ionic 1-part grow and flower from here on out. Heath Robinson ran this line with great results at 1.2-EC so we will see what happens. Going the K.I.S.S. route.

-ALLegal420

 

[crossouttheiis]

looking good it doesnt look like those have a lot of stretch on them. why do you have those bare bulbs hanging horizontally? Those are really short and stout plants. I was getting a lot of nutrient lock out with the ionic for some reason.

 

[ALLegal420]

looking good it doesnt look like those have a lot of stretch on them. why do you have those bare bulbs hanging horizontally? Those are really short and stout plants. I was getting a lot of nutrient lock out with the ionic for some reason.

No not yet, they're definitely stout short guys for sure! Saw a couple threads and was also somewhat advised to also run horizontal lights during veg in the system, so we just flipped 2 lights up. Might place them directly overtop horizontally to try and get them to stretch a little, tallest is 21" and shortest is about 18". Going to flip at the median height of 24".

Can you give me a little rundown on your experience with Ionic if ya don't mind... What time in the cycle, what were the plants doing or showing, ppm level, other additives, regular or hard water ionic, RO or tap water? I read a couple places that Heath Robinson ran at 1.2EC throughout with base and then also ran some PK13/14 and got killer results. Not sure what scale he was using
though... Were planning on 1100-1200ppm max since our tap water is about 170-180ppm.

-ALLegal420

 

[ttystikk]

No not yet, they're definitely stout short guys for sure! Saw a couple threads and was also somewhat advised to also run horizontal lights during veg in the system, so we just flipped 2 lights up. Might place them directly overtop horizontally to try and get them to stretch a little, tallest is 21" and shortest is about 18". Going to flip at the median height of 24".

Can you give me a little rundown on your experience with Ionic if ya don't mind... What time in the cycle, what were the plants doing or showing, ppm level, other additives, regular or hard water ionic, RO or tap water? I read a couple places that Heath Robinson ran at 1.2EC throughout with base and then also ran some PK13/14 and got killer results. Not sure what scale he was using
though... Were planning on 1100-1200ppm max since our tap water is about 170-180ppm.

-ALLegal420

Just had my computer crash in the middle of replying, so I hope I remember everything I was trying to say!

First, I'm thinking you're on the right track with the horizontal bulbs, I'm watching to see how that experiement turns out.

Problems with 'nutrient lockout' often occur when people add nutrients in the wrong order. For instance, you ALWAYS add anything with calcium in it well diluted and LAST. Why? Because it's the most frequent bad actor in lockout situations. For instance, if you add magnesium sulfate- epsom salt- after adding calcium, you're likely to get a 'flocculation' reaction, where the calcium and the sulfur bind up and become 97% INsoluble and drop out of solution. What's left is... gypsum, yep the same stuff your wallboards are made of. So add your cal-mag, or anything else with calcium in it last to avoid this problem.

On to EC; think of EC as a basic measurement- like a torque measurement of engine power. PPMs, on the other hand, are a mthematical calculation based on this direct measurement- like horsepower- and are thus a lot less clear. For example, an EC of 1.2 is 600ppm@500, but 840ppm@700. Several of us who are looking into alternative nutrients are switching to the EC standard for clarity and simplicity.



This thread was started so that people could discuss their nutrients and find less expensive alternatives. One thing that quickly became necessary was to make sure we were all on the same page as far as measurements, so we are trying to pass the word around the Farm to encourage the use of EC.

 

[crossouttheiis]

Just had my computer crash in the middle of replying, so I hope I remember everything I was trying to say!

First, I'm thinking you're on the right track with the horizontal bulbs, I'm watching to see how that experiement turns out.

Problems with 'nutrient lockout' often occur when people add nutrients in the wrong order. For instance, you ALWAYS add anything with calcium in it well diluted and LAST. Why? Because it's the most frequent bad actor in lockout situations. For instance, if you add magnesium sulfate- epsom salt- after adding calcium, you're likely to get a 'flocculation' reaction, where the calcium and the sulfur bind up and become 97% INsoluble and drop out of solution. What's left is... gypsum, yep the same stuff your wallboards are made of. So add your cal-mag, or anything else with calcium in it last to avoid this problem.

On to EC; think of EC as a basic measurement- like a torque measurement of engine power. PPMs, on the other hand, are a mthematical calculation based on this direct measurement- like horsepower- and are thus a lot less clear. For example, an EC of 1.2 is 600ppm@500, but 840ppm@700. Several of us who are looking into alternative nutrients are switching to the EC standard for clarity and simplicity.

EC.

I completely agree when I first looked at the pictures I thought he was starting to flower. I do feel like reflectors would reduce the amounted of wasted light.

Thanks for your tip about cal mag and such though. I did not know that, but thanks for the tip. I guess I am luckily that I had always added cal mag last when I mix nutrients

 

[crossouttheiis]

No not yet, they're definitely stout short guys for sure! Saw a couple threads and was also somewhat advised to also run horizontal lights during veg in the system, so we just flipped 2 lights up. Might place them directly overtop horizontally to try and get them to stretch a little, tallest is 21" and shortest is about 18". Going to flip at the median height of 24".

Can you give me a little rundown on your experience with Ionic if ya don't mind... What time in the cycle, what were the plants doing or showing, ppm level, other additives, regular or hard water ionic, RO or tap water? I read a couple places that Heath Robinson ran at 1.2EC throughout with base and then also ran some PK13/14 and got killer results. Not sure what scale he was using
though... Were planning on 1100-1200ppm max since our tap water is about 170-180ppm.

-ALLegal420

Your plants are a lot more short and stout, but I would go at least 30" before flipping them. You do have a lot of tight internodle growth, but I think you will want them bigger before flipping them.

I always have added calcium last, but the plants would start out healthy and looking great. After 5 days maybe I would start getting cal-mag lock out but I was adding it when I started noticing it. I am running around 400 ppm now and they are still exploding.

 

[ALLegal420]

Just had my computer crash in the middle of replying, so I hope I remember everything I was trying to say!

First, I'm thinking you're on the right track with the horizontal bulbs, I'm watching to see how that experiement turns out.

Problems with 'nutrient lockout' often occur when people add nutrients in the wrong order. For instance, you ALWAYS add anything with calcium in it well diluted and LAST. Why? Because it's the most frequent bad actor in lockout situations. For instance, if you add magnesium sulfate- epsom salt- after adding calcium, you're likely to get a 'flocculation' reaction, where the calcium and the sulfur bind up and become 97% INsoluble and drop out of solution. What's left is... gypsum, yep the same stuff your wallboards are made of. So add your cal-mag, or anything else with calcium in it last to avoid this problem.

On to EC; think of EC as a basic measurement- like a torque measurement of engine power. PPMs, on the other hand, are a mthematical calculation based on this direct measurement- like horsepower- and are thus a lot less clear. For example, an EC of 1.2 is 600ppm@500, but 840ppm@700. Several of us who are looking into alternative nutrients are switching to the EC standard for clarity and simplicity.



This thread was started so that people could discuss their nutrients and find less expensive alternatives. One thing that quickly became necessary was to make sure we were all on the same page as far as measurements, so we are trying to pass the word around the Farm to encourage the use of EC.

I hate when my computer does that after typing a big long reply, always frustrating!

Hmm, we'll see how they look in a day or 2 because I added the Cal-Mag first and let the system run for about 10-12 mins, the water should have circulated 2 full times in that time frame. After adding each additive I would let the system circulate 10-12 minutes before adding anymore or adding anything new.

How I added after flush...(10-12mins between each add)

1st - tap water (.3-.4EC)
2nd - H202
3rd - Cal-Mag
4th - Ionic Grow
5th -PH Down

Yes I saw that people on this board are trying to get others to switch to using EC value's instead of PPM. We're using a Hanna meter so (.5 conversion.... 1.4-1.5 EC is where we are currently sitting at, that is with ".3-.4 EC" tap water starting point), going to watch them and see how they do over the next couple days, hopefully that's not to high.

What size rockwool cubes are people usually running in UC systems? I wonder if the short/stout plant structure has anything to do with us running 6" rockwool cubes.... I know 'Doubleds' saw better yeilds running 6" rockwool cubes over 4" in the MPB system.

-ALLegal420

 

[ttystikk]

ALLegal420 -
Just switch things around so you're adding the cal-mag last, and you're set. You could even go the step of premixing your nutes, like into a 5 gallon bucket before pouring into your system- and that will get the solution strength down and help reduce the chances for lockout as well.

I run a lower EC than that in my veg, closer to 1.0-1.2 tops. On the other hand, if it works for you, then go with it. If the girls don't seem to be growing very fast, try reducing the EC- it will help the plant take up water faster.

From my own completely subjective experience, rockwool cubes really encourage root growth, as long as you dn't let the cube soak in the water.

 

[socalsfinestmmj]

Hey nice grow looking like gonna be some trees..just noticed u said u have window AC. But your room looks like It is build in a garage how are your acs working .are they mounted into. A lung room with air exchange or are they Just mounted outside. The reason I ask is I'm about to buid in a garage and want to mount AC inside. .

 

[ALLegal420]

crossouttheiis - Thanks for the tip on going 30" tall, I believe we are going to flip around that median size now. Reflectors would reduce light loss but don't wanna fork out the cash for only another week or less, going to flip all to vertical here soon and add the 5th light.
How often are you adding cal-mag and how much ppm/EC are you adding total? What brand of nutrients are you running and how stable is your PH? We're going to watch them and see how they do with the 740ppm/1.4-1.5EC (560ppm of it is nutes and 180ppm is from the tap water).

ttystikk - Do you think the way we mixed is going to cause issues/lockout? I hate the thought of flushing fresh nutrients down the drain but will if it is going to be an issue. Any idea/guess on when we might start seeing issues, if at all? Thanks for all the info and help.

socalsfinestmmj- Thanks for the props! The room is a room within a room (room in a garage with about 4ft of walk around space outside the room on 2 sides and 1-1/2' on the 3rd side). We are finishing insulating the outer room where the compressor side of the A/C's sit and going to have an intake and outake fan setup here quick to keep it cooler. It can get pretty damn hot in the outer room when the A/C's are working hard so gotta get more air movement and cool fresh air in there. We will have a charcoal filter on the outake for extra precaution. Good luck on your build, looking forward to pics.

If our PH keeps creeping up from day to day what does it mean? Like from 5.8 to 6.4? Were going to let it swing but this time we dropped it back down (PH down) to 5.8 and see how long it takes to creep back up. Hopefully it will just swing up and then swing back down within range. Gotta do a little more research on this and see what happens over the next couple days.

-ALLegal420

 

[ttystikk]

crossouttheiis - Thanks for the tip on going 30" tall, I believe we are going to flip around that median size now. Reflectors would reduce light loss but don't wanna fork out the cash for only another week or less, going to flip all to vertical here soon and add the 5th light.
How often are you adding cal-mag and how much ppm/EC are you adding total? What brand of nutrients are you running and how stable is your PH? We're going to watch them and see how they do with the 740ppm/1.4-1.5EC (560ppm of it is nutes and 180ppm is from the tap water).

I'm liking this idea, too- if I go to vertical, I'll do it the same way. For now, I'm running Magnum xxxl 'ocho' hoods, 8 in a 16x9 room, over 24 shorter girls. Gonna see how they run...

ttystikk - Do you think the way we mixed is going to cause issues/lockout? I hate the thought of flushing fresh nutrients down the drain but will if it is going to be an issue. Any idea/guess on when we might start seeing issues, if at all? Thanks for all the info and help.

Two ways to look for lockout/flocculation issues; one is if after adding nutes your EC drops mysteriously- which means something bound up and dropped out of solution. The other way is to let the plants tell you. In general, keep your EC down, preferably below 1.2 or at least below 1.4. An EC of 2.0 like the UC guys suggest is too high!

socalsfinestmmj- Thanks for the props! The room is a room within a room (room in a garage with about 4ft of walk around space outside the room on 2 sides and 1-1/2' on the 3rd side). We are finishing insulating the outer room where the compressor side of the A/C's sit and going to have an intake and outake fan setup here quick to keep it cooler. It can get pretty damn hot in the outer room when the A/C's are working hard so gotta get more air movement and cool fresh air in there. We will have a charcoal filter on the outake for extra precaution. Good luck on your build, looking forward to pics.

Good plan. I have the luxury of a basement, but this eeems like a good route to take if you need to run in the garage.

If our PH keeps creeping up from day to day what does it mean? Like from 5.8 to 6.4? Were going to let it swing but this time we dropped it back down (PH down) to 5.8 and see how long it takes to creep back up. Hopefully it will just swing up and then swing back down within range. Gotta do a little more research on this and see what happens over the next couple days.
-ALLegal420

This, believe it or not, is GOOD news! What it means is that your girls are drinking, taking up nutes, and dropping exudates back into the water, all of which are results of healthy, happy growth! Stack some nutes as you add water to keep your EC stable, and add pH down to bring the range back into 5.5-5.8, and let it rise again...

Overall, I'd say these are the issues that come with a grow that's progressing well, and nothing to get too concerned about. Keep up the vigilance and happy growing- I can't wait to see how things turn out!

 

[mrdizzle]

I would flip at a min of 30in, 36in would be ideal I think for a strain thats so stout and bushy

 

[ALLegal420]

Picture time... Getting closer!

 

[ALLegal420]

More pics...

 

[Baba booey]

looks amazing, those are 5 1kw lights, correct?? You wrap the plants in wire so the buds don't get to close to the lights??

 

[killerkane37]

Great job bro. The plants are lookin terrific. It looks like you picked the perfect time to drop your cages on and i'm glad to see you got that PM problem fixed in a hurry. Keep up the good work. I'm tuned in for this one.

 

[ALLegal420]

Baba booey, thanks for the props! Yea they are 1k's... The cages are to help keep the colas up when they get to big (hopefully, lol) and also give us something to tie off to so we can open or close the plant as needed.

Killerkane37, thanks for the props as well! We've got the pm a little more under control and gonna do a sulfur burn today. Thanks for following along!

Update... Tallest is about 31" tall and the shortest is about 26-1/2" as of yesterday so almost ready for flip time. Thanks for the heads up Mrdizzle! Gonna flip at a median height of 30" tall so should be right around Sunday..

-ALLegal420

 

[turboz]

update:
Day 2 of flower. Had 24 hours of dark from veg to flower.
Plant height at switch-
1-30"
2-30"
3-28"
4-34"
One pic is of one of the dirt, it has been veggin for about 9 weeks and is about 6' from floor to top.
The cages have 6" squares so you can get an idea of the actual size.