4x4 vs 3x3 Beds?

[ftwendy]

I have no first hand experience, but I imagine that a couple inch deep layer of grow stones or hydroton or the like would alleviate any issues with low spots and drainage... pop in a flood table drain fitting and you're golden, yes?

I'm about to try to recreate mwd's dstar beds myself.... lovin this conversation

 

[lino]

Have you ever tried mapito ?

what is mapito?

 

[lino]

I have no first hand experience, but I imagine that a couple inch deep layer of grow stones or hydroton or the like would alleviate any issues with low spots and drainage... pop in a flood table drain fitting and you're golden, yes?

I'm about to try to recreate mwd's dstar beds myself.... lovin this conversation

I'm trying to absorb as much as poss about grow beds. What are dstar beds? I was also thinkN bout layer of grow stones or hydroton rocks to help with the drainage. thanks guys , i'll be reading your threads bout grow beds...

 

[ftwendy]

I'm trying to absorb as much as poss about grow beds. What are dstar beds? I was also thinkN bout layer of grow stones or hydroton rocks to help with the drainage. thanks guys , i'll be reading your threads bout grow beds...

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/mwd-harems-hideout.53696/page-6#post-1025431
Check out midwestdensies thread... its full of tips, and he just crushed the beds of Deathstar, a hybrid of Sdiesel x Sensi Star

Your posts are really helpful man. Thank you

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

You could cut veg times down by having some in small containers less than a 1/2 gal, then topping them before moving into beds. Possibly slicing a week or more off that is if you have the space. I'd suggest a bunch of 4-6" square pots on a table with a flood and drain. Hope to see you around brother and catch up this week.

@midwestdensies - I agree with small containers for veg. u got me hooked on those 1 gal plastic grow bags. I only fill 1/2-3/4's full. I keep em under t5's for 2 weeks then under a 400w MH for 1-2 weeks. My plants develop way squatty under the t5's then when my main branches are established, i put them under the 400w which really makes those mains stretch and become nice and full.
I will be around, hit me up.

endomycorrhizae is my center of focus cause of the widely spread and hundreds of plant families and are most commonly represented by arbuscular (previously called vesicular-arbuscular) species whose hyphal-root interfaces look like branches (arbuscule = small tree) or balloons (vesicle = small
bladder). These delicate structures are more commonly associated with the roots of your annual flowers or vegetables. let me find some pics of my cultivar

Good knowledge, feel free to drop some knowledge and post some pics of these colonies!

I was thinking a drain would be helpful if not necessary.

quote question "Im not sure what mycorrhize has to do with sizes of beds,"
pots do NOT accommodate the Mycorrhizal populations of dynamic - both in the soil and on plant roots; different species may colonize in and on plants at different times of their life cycle. New mycorrhizal infections can develop from nearby active networks, dormant spores, and even infected root fragments. And when soil conditions are changed by activities as simple as adding organic matter, mycorrhizal species composition changes as well. Indoor Beds would be ideal. I dont know why I didnt think of this sooner. Its not like indoor beds were a new concept to me. I learn more from you guys than you'll ever learn from me.

How many cannabis gardens have lifted the mulch to find a cotton web of mycorrhize like you'd see in a vigorous growth forests, You dont see this in pot very often, , but a grow BEDs, that might be a different story, diffidently got me thinkN, Found a king size water bed frame that look like a good start to a cannabis bed.

-drains are key, that unless you have your waterings dialed in, no one likes drowning roots. I bought a cheap moisture meter with a 10" prong for like 14.95$. Thing comes in handy!
-Mulch is a good idea. I am a big fan of a top dressing/soil barriers... I was concerned with light intensity on my medium surface and how it affects water retention and microbial populations. I have not found the perfect top dressing yet, i find pros and cons with everything ive gone with.

I have no first hand experience, but I imagine that a couple inch deep layer of grow stones or hydroton or the like would alleviate any issues with low spots and drainage... pop in a flood table drain fitting and you're golden, yes?

I'm about to try to recreate mwd's dstar beds myself.... lovin this conversation

right on the money with that. I used #4 perilite @ about 2" thick layer and then threw my medium of choice on top. I really would like to try GrowMore Grow Stones though. MWD's Dstar bed was insane! that whole journal made me look at Sq footage and how you can take a smaller space and completely max it out! much props to that fucker!

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Im still having trouble answering my question though. How much more beneficial is a 4x4 bed than a 3x3 bed? especially if ive hit my gpw with half the amount of medium when i used individual containers.
Im thinking that if i wanted the same results in 3x3 bed that i get from my 4x4 beds i might need to increase the aeration of my medium and increase the watering applications. hmmm:banghead:
lets keep this thread rolling

 

[lino]

I've been looking at the Bed grow technique on this site and other horticulture sites for the last 2 days and I dont have enough experience to really throw my 2 cents out there but I leaning toward my 1st bed consisting of the entire floor - wall to wall with planks as my walk and work area to avoid walking on soil. I will drain to the exterior of the room, where ballast, liquids, and chemical storage room will be. I thinking with soil usage and crop rotation the soil will last as long as the sealed floor of the room. I grow other crops besides my cannabis sometimes so crop rotation would be ideal in this type of grow also with out all the fucking transplanting. I could grow corn in the winter... Has me thinking how my bamboo and lilly strains would do in this type of grow. the under lying floor of the grow bed will have a step decline for good drainage.

 

[tweedy]

Im still having trouble answering my question though. How much more beneficial is a 4x4 bed than a 3x3 bed? especially if ive hit my gpw with half the amount of medium when i used individual containers.
Im thinking that if i wanted the same results in 3x3 bed that i get from my 4x4 beds i might need to increase the aeration of my medium and increase the watering applications. hmmm:banghead:
lets keep this thread rolling

The grow that keeps coming to mind is the 20 light 25 plant scrog that is on here. Or vice versa, cant remember their count. Anyways, 3 foot wide beds (granted they were longer than 3 feet as they did rows) but they fucking CRUSHED it.

 

[Capulator]

If it's up against the wall and no casters, 3x3 bed.

If you can move it/get around it- 4 x 4

4 x 4 against the wall and you can't reach the plants int eh back row. Fuck that. I'll post some pics of soem 4x4 beds on casters where I used the 100 gal botanicare reservoirs as beds. They are straight killing it, and I water them once a week about.

@midwestdensies that is exaclty what I do flood and drain 6x6 squares for 3 weeks, and then plant them right in the beds and flip. keep a trellis 18" above soil level and weave for 2 weeks in to flip then let them grow up the last week.

 

[dorjewright]

If it's up against the wall and no casters, 3x3 bed.

If you can move it/get around it- 4 x 4

4 x 4 against the wall and you can't reach the plants int eh back row. Fuck that. I'll post some pics of soem 4x4 beds on casters where I used the 100 gal botanicare reservoirs as beds. They are straight killing it, and I water them once a week about.

@midwestdensies that is exaclty what I do flood and drain 6x6 squares for 3 weeks, and then plant them right in the beds and flip. keep a trellis 18" above soil level and weave for 2 weeks in to flip then let them grow up the last week.

Yes I'd like to see some photos too.

 

[Capulator]

Im still having trouble answering my question though. How much more beneficial is a 4x4 bed than a 3x3 bed? especially if ive hit my gpw with half the amount of medium when i used individual containers.
Im thinking that if i wanted the same results in 3x3 bed that i get from my 4x4 beds i might need to increase the aeration of my medium and increase the watering applications. hmmm:banghead:
lets keep this thread rolling

You need to talk canopy size not bed size. 3x3 and 4x4 wont be much difference unless you are doing true sea of green. You can have a 4 x 4, 5x5, or even 6 x 6 canopy with a
3x3 bed...

 

[tweedy]

You need to talk canopy size not bed size. 3x3 and 4x4 wont be much difference unless you are doing true sea of green. You can have a 4 x 4, 5x5, or even 6 x 6 canopy with a
3x3 bed...

I think he's more concerned with 9 cubic feet of root space not living up to 16, 25, or 36 square feet of canopy and not doing it justice.

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

You need to talk canopy size not bed size. 3x3 and 4x4 wont be much difference unless you are doing true sea of green. You can have a 4 x 4, 5x5, or even 6 x 6 canopy with a
3x3 bed...

I use a light spread of 5x6 = 30sqft. This is also canopy spread per light. Our plants are usually 3x the size of our container size. So i dont think bed size dictates canopy size imo.

The reason i asked the original question was because i was talking to Pepjin from ePap and he kept inforcing the fact that you should never look at it as lighting a plant, but more of lighting a room. So according to the most efficient light charts for thier fixtures, you would use 25 fixtures for a 20x25sqft room!... So i was trying to design a bed system that would allow me enough room to work through aisles and have a solid canopy. The only way that i found this possible is with smaller beds. which then created my question, "if i get GPW in individual containers and only use apporximatley 9 cubic feet of medium, why do i need to use 13-14 cubic feet to fill a 4x4 bed? If i used 3x3's not only would i lower my expenses in medium, but overall water and nutrient usage as well... and plus if i still hit GPW, why not use less?..."
Ive beat my head on this for awhile but i kept running into the same problem, plant support. its easy to trellis a 4x4 with a wider canopy, but a 3x3 threw a bunch of curve balls at me. so i said fuck it and stuck with 4x4 beds, still dont like my trellis system, but its currently under design. tried Pvc - hate it, on metal conduit now, dig it but i still have some bugs to work out. Thanks for the clothes line tip bro, square netting is so gay

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

The grow that keeps coming to mind is the 20 light 25 plant scrog that is on here. Or vice versa, cant remember their count. Anyways, 3 foot wide beds (granted they were longer than 3 feet as they did rows) but they fucking CRUSHED it.

just saw this reply, I agree with that. i think it was BCgrower or something, but i cant believe what he did! he really fucked up my thinking process, his design was tight, but i realized he was working with a strict plant limit, he hand watered with hose and wand, and he had a longer veg (hence the plant count) i loved how he literally had a sea of green. no fucking gaps:wideyed: but i use an irragtion system that doesnt have flex for me to move beds so i can access what i need. i did use how he extended his trellis past his trough method!

 

[fishwhistle]

this is a strain from the largest organism in the world . Located in the cali rain forest , These beds would allow my warm weather mycorrhizae strains to flourish.

In other words baba hes using dirt from your backyard:),lol.

 

[lino]

Fish, basically your correct, it grows in everyone backyard. But it grows pretty good in this bed, Buckets Full of myco!

I have found that when myco is this abundant nothing else is needed, no nutes, bug sprays nothing but RO water. I have place myco'd soil plants in mite and gnat infested rooms and the bugs will not touch myco'd plants. Clones root 3-6 days quicker in myco'd soil as compared to other methods I have used.

 

[emlorraine]

I use a light spread of 5x6 = 30sqft. This is also canopy spread per light. Our plants are usually 3x the size of our container size. So i dont think bed size dictates canopy size imo.

The reason i asked the original question was because i was talking to Pepjin from ePap and he kept inforcing the fact that you should never look at it as lighting a plant, but more of lighting a room. So according to the most efficient light charts for thier fixtures, you would use 25 fixtures for a 20x25sqft room!... So i was trying to design a bed system that would allow me enough room to work through aisles and have a solid canopy. The only way that i found this possible is with smaller beds. which then created my question, "if i get GPW in individual containers and only use apporximatley 9 cubic feet of medium, why do i need to use 13-14 cubic feet to fill a 4x4 bed? If i used 3x3's not only would i lower my expenses in medium, but overall water and nutrient usage as well... and plus if i still hit GPW, why not use less?..."
Ive beat my head on this for awhile but i kept running into the same problem, plant support. its easy to trellis a 4x4 with a wider canopy, but a 3x3 threw a bunch of curve balls at me. so i said fuck it and stuck with 4x4 beds, still dont like my trellis system, but its currently under design. tried Pvc - hate it, on metal conduit now, dig it but i still have some bugs to work out. Thanks for the clothes line tip bro, square netting is so gay

Did have you seen the ultimate plant cages for your support?

 

[Theoneandonly Z]

Did have you seen the ultimate plant cages for your support?

ya those wont work. i run beds with up to 25 plants in a 4x4. usually stick to 12-16, but sometimes time schedules can throw you through a loop.

A single system that supports a good number of plants is ideal in my condition. hence a trellis system. i over thought my scenario a bit but i guess thats what us farmers gotta do..

 

[HookedonPonics]

If you have the space and are running 16-25 plants a bed I would def just use the 4 x 4 beds and just make them shallow, around 8" deep simply because mj is an annual plant so its roots spread horizontally until they hit the edges and then head downward, wider the root base, the bushier and wider the plant (usually).

I run a room with 4x4 beds and a room with four 3g air pots per 1k and get similiar yields in both rooms. So honestly the only way to know is to try it, get numbers, and let us know the results haha.

 

[urban1026835]

Need to strap on my thinking hat around here I see.

Never even thought about a bed setup but now i'm intrigued.