A/C problem!! HELP!!!

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wooitzme

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Ok, so I have a room that is 15' x 30' and 10' in height. I am running (12) 1000 watt lights and the ballasts are outside the room. I have 1 dehumidifier, and a 10 burner co2 in the room as well. The room is cooled with a commercial 4 ton ac unit that is mounted on the roof of the building. The room has 4 vents to blow in cold air and 2 returners. I had been running all 12 lights (flowering) fine for about 2 weeks at a temp of 75 degrees then now gradually the room will not maintain the temp. It is now 85-86 degrees in the room and i am not knowing what is wrong. Any help please will be greatly appreciated!!! Thank you
 
bonkia

bonkia

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I love running my girls at 85 with co2 is this in the canopy?? You shouldnt have any issues
 
bonkia

bonkia

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Also i The humidity natural goes down when the lights are on, so i have my dehu just kick off when they lights turn on and have it lower when he lights are off. It keeps it atleast 5 degrees cooler
 
bonkia

bonkia

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Do you have a brain for the burner or does it just keep running? The temps outside will effect inside its ben hot as shiot.. Same thing happends in the winter
 
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wooitzme

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No, it is in an enclosed room. I do have a brain but it is set to 23 hours. Im not sure but my girls look like they are having heat stress. The hoods are not vented. The leaves seem dry and yellowing and the girls are drooping on the leaves on top but the fan leves are ok. I have the hunidity at 55 right now. The girls all looked good till the room temp started going up. Oh and i also have 6 fans blowing.
 
SAMCRO

SAMCRO

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Its the heat wherever your at beating down on your condenser unit during the day. In addition I also think your pushing it with a 4 TON unit with all your other gear and your lights. 4 tons to me is 48,000 BTU of cooling. You got 12 Lights that' a minimum of 4000 BTU per light cooling needed for proper cooling plus your other heat gear. You either need to bump that deal to a 5 Ton Unit or switch out your room from day time lights on and switch out to night time lights on so the cooler temps at night will keep your condenser a little cooler. But to me your 4 Ton unit is maxed out. Ive been there and done this. Same problems and had to switch out to a 5 ton unit to fix my problem.
 
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wooitzme

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Damn. I thought it would be ok with a 4 ton unit since i had done a 10 light set up with a 3 ton unit before. It will be hard to change the schedule from day to night. Also, switching the 4 ton to 5 ton is out of the question, since one it will cost too much and 2 i would need to get an ac guy to crane in a new unit. Would there be another way to add more cool? Add a window unit to the room? Add a portable ac to the room? How much more BTUs would I need?
 
SAMCRO

SAMCRO

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1. Switch to running your lights at night. Let sit for complete cycle and start your run at new time as if there was a power failure. This depends on how long your in flower already.
2. Remove a few lights. Product may suffer
3. Add a mini split. Going to cost your money. FrostBox may have a plug and play unit. Dont recommend them but if your in jam you gotta do what you gotta do.
4. Window air conditioners cost way to much to run as well as portable air conditioners. Anything that runs high amps on 110 V is a money suck.
5. Switch from burner to CO2 tanks to try and get some of your heat out of the room.
6. Upgrade as soon as you can to a 5 ton unit when you clean out your facility and can bring in HVAC tech.
7. 4000 BTU of cooling powered required for each light you have is the rule of thumb plus your other gear. Some may tell you more or less but that's the gauge I use now after learning the hard way.

Those are some options that came to mind. Perhaps the other good farmers who do builds and run alot of lights and big air can chime in to help guide you a little.
 
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wooitzme

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1. Switch to running your lights at night. Let sit for complete cycle and start your run at new time as if there was a power failure. This depends on how long your in flower already.
2. Remove a few lights. Product may suffer
3. Add a mini split. Going to cost your money. FrostBox may have a plug and play unit. Dont recommend them but if your in jam you gotta do what you gotta do.
4. Window air conditioners cost way to much to run as well as portable air conditioners. Anything that runs high amps on 110 V is a money suck.
5. Switch from burner to CO2 tanks to try and get some of your heat out of the room.
6. Upgrade as soon as you can to a 5 ton unit when you clean out your facility and can bring in HVAC tech.
7. 4000 BTU of cooling powered required for each light you have is the rule of thumb plus your other gear. Some may tell you more or less but that's the gauge I use now after learning the hard way.

Those are some options that came to mind. Perhaps the other good farmers who do builds and run alot of lights and big air can chime in to help guide you a little.
Thanks for the input SAMCRO. Yea I have done a lot of builds before but never done a 12 lighter in 1 room before. I usually have multiple rooms with 8'ers. I probably will have to get a mini split since upping to a 5 ton unit might be out of the question. Its hard to crane in a 5 ton unit, since it kinda raises eyebrows. The weird thing is that it made it through 2 weeks without having this heat issue.

I am also curious now though. Is having a the temp at 85 degrees a bad thing to the plants? I've always had my temps at 75 degrees throughout the grow, but lately I have noticed a lot of people recommend higher temps.
 
SAMCRO

SAMCRO

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I guess its strain dependent. Ive been experimenting with both. But too high can cause heat stress as you know. But you know your girls better than anyone. Craning in a new air conditioning in the middle of summer shouldn't raise too many eyebrows. A 3 ton 4 ton and 5 ton unit condenser wise look the same on a crane. Hey if the neighbors ask whats sup your unit took a shit and the high temps are stressing your animals so I had to replace the unit. I don't know your location or your situation but that's would I would say if somebody said anything. In the middle of winter they might think something different. But the bulk of the United States has been going through a motherfucker of a heatwave lately so adding a new unit now wouldn't be out of the question. Otherwise your stuck on doing a mini split to add some cooling power. If you can afford 12 lights you should be able to harvest well and upgrade your gear before wintertime. Just my thoughts.
 
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wooitzme

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Yea, money isn't a problem. Just trying to find a better way then to crane in an new unit. I have two 12 light rooms that have both brand new 4 ton units. I would have to replace both since the other room will have the same problem. That is the reason I am looking for an alternative (i.e. mini split, portable ac, window, etc.). I am in SoCal and the weather is crazier then a mofo lately. Oh, and also I forgot to add is that my temps rise even when the temp outside is cold. I guess my 4 ton'r just cant take the 12 lights.. :( Would you recommend a certain BTU for an additional AC? Probably a 1 ton mini split? Thanks in advance.
 
SAMCRO

SAMCRO

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If your going to go through the trouble of running a mini split I would get the largest one you can afford. The more BTUs the better so the 4 ton isnt working so hard. I always when buying new things is to buy the biggest baddest I can afford and then weigh out the options of spending a little more to save me in the future. Like buying a new 5 ton unit but upgrading the seer rating to save on long term electricity. So I don't have to spend money twice type deal. Sick of replacing and upgrading shit when money comes in it goes right back out with upgrades to make the wheel a little bigger and a little stronger. Do your homework. Ask Cannabis John which models he likes with low cost of ownership over the long haul.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

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If those hoods were vented, that 4 ton AC would be more than up to the task. You've no doubt discovered that trying to cool lights with an AC compressor is a very expensive fool's errand.

If you live where it's dry, strongly consider cooling your rooms with a bigger chiller unit, like 4 tons. I run a 2 ton chiller and it cools my 8kW of vented lights very nicely. If you live where it's very humid, consider a heat pump instead. I know that last sounds screwy, but trust me on this- talk to an HVAC expert and they'll explain it better than I can.

If you want to run your two bloom zones on the flip of one another (a very good idea, for lots of reasons), then just one chiller will effectively cool BOTH rooms; just put your Ice Box heat exchangers in both rooms and run them with environmental controllers in each room. That one tip alone just saved you thousands; this way you needn't buy a second cooling unit at all!
 
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wooitzme

52
18
If your going to go through the trouble of running a mini split I would get the largest one you can afford. The more BTUs the better so the 4 ton isnt working so hard. I always when buying new things is to buy the biggest baddest I can afford and then weigh out the options of spending a little more to save me in the future. Like buying a new 5 ton unit but upgrading the seer rating to save on long term electricity. So I don't have to spend money twice type deal. Sick of replacing and upgrading shit when money comes in it goes right back out with upgrades to make the wheel a little bigger and a little stronger. Do your homework. Ask Cannabis John which models he likes with low cost of ownership over the long haul.
Im thinking of just adding an additional 18,000 BTU mini split into each room. Thats 1 1/2 tons of AC, so basically I will have 5 1/2 tons in each 12 lighter room. I think that will be efficient enough. Yea I am sick of upgrading but I think I am going to upgrade my lights soon so I can just vent them all. I should have done this first but I had a sick deal on the equipment I had lol Guess that was my mistake. I shut off 2 lights in the room so the temp is down to 79ish degrees now but what I dont understand is that with 10 lights now the temp in the room is still around 79-82 degrees. Its kinda aggravating. :mad:
If those hoods were vented, that 4 ton AC would be more than up to the task. You've no doubt discovered that trying to cool lights with an AC compressor is a very expensive fool's errand.

If you live where it's dry, strongly consider cooling your rooms with a bigger chiller unit, like 4 tons. I run a 2 ton chiller and it cools my 8kW of vented lights very nicely. If you live where it's very humid, consider a heat pump instead. I know that last sounds screwy, but trust me on this- talk to an HVAC expert and they'll explain it better than I can.

If you want to run your two bloom zones on the flip of one another (a very good idea, for lots of reasons), then just one chiller will effectively cool BOTH rooms; just put your Ice Box heat exchangers in both rooms and run them with environmental controllers in each room. That one tip alone just saved you thousands; this way you needn't buy a second cooling unit at all!
I live in SoCal so it is hot lately. Like today the temp got up to 95 degrees which sucked. I'm originally from where you are and I miss Denver weather. Only thing about the Ice Box heat exchanger is that it is loud.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
Im thinking of just adding an additional 18,000 BTU mini split into each room. Thats 1 1/2 tons of AC, so basically I will have 5 1/2 tons in each 12 lighter room. I think that will be efficient enough. Yea I am sick of upgrading but I think I am going to upgrade my lights soon so I can just vent them all. I should have done this first but I had a sick deal on the equipment I had lol Guess that was my mistake. I shut off 2 lights in the room so the temp is down to 79ish degrees now but what I dont understand is that with 10 lights now the temp in the room is still around 79-82 degrees. Its kinda aggravating. :mad:

I live in SoCal so it is hot lately. Like today the temp got up to 95 degrees which sucked. I'm originally from where you are and I miss Denver weather. Only thing about the Ice Box heat exchanger is that it is loud.

Okay, so if you live in SoCal then you're likely dealing with hot, dry conditions, not unlike those who grow on the high plains of Colorado. And if you think 95 is nasty, try the 105 we saw more than once last week. The only thing weirder? Try the 5.5" of rain we got in just 3 days afterwards! Chillers come in two basic types and sizes, from what I've been able to tell:
Type 1; small, up to 1/2 ton- these are generally used to keep water in a hydro system cool, and so they usually have the nutrient water running through them. Since they're small, they can't be as efficient as larger units, and they have little ability to cool a space as opposed to just a reservoir. It's best to set this type up outside your growroom so it doesn't add to the heat load in your growroom.

Type 2; anything bigger than 1/2 ton- these are far more efficient than their smaller brethren, and usually run about 30% more efficient than AC to boot. It gets better, too; chillers lose efficiency more slowly as ambient temps climb than AC units do. Also, since you really want to set these up with their own dedicated water cooling circuits, you will gain the ability to keep things cool even when the unit isn't runninng by just using the thermal mass of the cold water already stored in the cooling system's reservoir. Another advantage is that you can plumb the one cooling system to cool everything that needs it; multiple rooms, multiple hydro systems, maybe even a room in the house someplace where people like yourself might like to chill out a bit!

It is the second, bigger type of chiller I'm recommending you consider, and to do the two bloomrooms on the flip of one another- this way, the total heat load need never exceed the heat load of the hottest room instead of both added together. This means you can size the chiller to cool just your largest bloom room and veg area- plus any hydro systems you might need to keep chilled.

Still have doubts? My last room design featured 8kW of lights in 8 magnum xxxl 'ocho' hoods, sealed and vented. The 16x9 room was sealed, and a 2 ton chiller (Chillking window mount) installed, and 8" Iceboxes were used in conjunction with 8" Maxfans and controlled by the Sentinel environmental controller. The chiller was more than up to the job of cooling the room, the RDWC systems in it, and a veg room, the RDWC system in it, AND a clone zone with a cooling coil under the aerocloner... and not only does it pull a mere 8.5 amps@240 when it's running, but since it has a 55 gallon drum full of water as a reservoir, it still runs less than half the time! Since Colorado gets cold in the winter, the guy pulls his unit inside, leaves the window open about 6" and pulls the hot air from the chiller through his house... heating the whole place. I saw a gas bill from late winter on his dining table the other day; $75 in gas... for 3 months' usage. That's Feb, March and April... not exactly balmy months around here.
 
pugliese63

pugliese63

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63
I'll chime in and agree with bonkia. With a CO2 generator I was told by several that the rule of thumb is "85 to thrive". I have 2 Frostbox 2 ton minisplits in an 8k room with CO2 burner. I keep it set at 85 and the room stays between 82 and 85. I live in the deep south and given the temps we've had recently that setting didn't overly tax my compressors. Everything really seems to love it. I understand that this can also be strain dependent.
 
WalterWhiteFire

WalterWhiteFire

1,458
263
I'll chime in and agree with bonkia. With a CO2 generator I was told by several that the rule of thumb is "85 to thrive". I have 2 Frostbox 2 ton minisplits in an 8k room with CO2 burner. I keep it set at 85 and the room stays between 82 and 85. I live in the deep south and given the temps we've had recently that setting didn't overly tax my compressors. Everything really seems to love it. I understand that this can also be strain dependent.
85 is a good temp only when you can keep your humidity nice and high too. I'm sure you have no prob with this in the deep south. My sealed room here in CO has to run below 80 cuz I can't get my RH above 50%.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

6,892
313
85 is a good temp only when you can keep your humidity nice and high too. I'm sure you have no prob with this in the deep south. My sealed room here in CO has to run below 80 cuz I can't get my RH above 50%.

I feel your pain, my brother! A few weeks ago, we had ambient humidity values in the single digits... for a long stretch. Small wonder why our state suddenly went up in smoke, right?

I feel the need to point out that if your sealed room can't hold humidity, then it's not sealed as well as it should be. The only time a sealed room should need additional humdification is when there are very few or very small plants in it. When the plants get bigger, they should definitely be transpiring enough to get your RH up and keep it there, at which point having a DE-humidification strategy in place will come in handy. The main suspects for leaks in a sealed room include all the sealed hoods and venting between them. An easy way to tell if this is your trouble is to note the rate of drop of your CO2 ppm in the room after the lights go out. A few hours after lights out (and after shutting off the fan venting air from the hoods) you should only be losing a few hundred ppms of CO2. If the CO2 is way down, then you have another leak somewhere.

You're on point with the humidity needs of a high temp room strategy. VPD= vapor pressure differential. This concept basically says that the higher the temps you run, the higher the RH needs to be for the plants to grow optimally. High temps and low humidity will stress the plants and lead to nutrient burn, slow growth and suceptibility to pathogens, especially spidermites, who just love high temps and dry air!
 
WalterWhiteFire

WalterWhiteFire

1,458
263
I feel your pain, my brother! A few weeks ago, we had ambient humidity values in the single digits... for a long stretch. Small wonder why our state suddenly went up in smoke, right?

I feel the need to point out that if your sealed room can't hold humidity, then it's not sealed as well as it should be. The only time a sealed room should need additional humdification is when there are very few or very small plants in it. When the plants get bigger, they should definitely be transpiring enough to get your RH up and keep it there, at which point having a DE-humidification strategy in place will come in handy. The main suspects for leaks in a sealed room include all the sealed hoods and venting between them. An easy way to tell if this is your trouble is to note the rate of drop of your CO2 ppm in the room after the lights go out. A few hours after lights out (and after shutting off the fan venting air from the hoods) you should only be losing a few hundred ppms of CO2. If the CO2 is way down, then you have another leak somewhere.

You're on point with the humidity needs of a high temp room strategy. VPD= vapor pressure differential. This concept basically says that the higher the temps you run, the higher the RH needs to be for the plants to grow optimally. High temps and low humidity will stress the plants and lead to nutrient burn, slow growth and suceptibility to pathogens, especially spidermites, who just love high temps and dry air!
I run open hoods so the a/c runs alot drying it out pretty quickly. It's a window unit and forsure the main cause of any slow leak. I run at 1000ppm it's ussually around 600ppm first thing in the morn. Ima throw a mini split in between my next runs.
 

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