A closer look at the UC

[QuarterbackMo]

I'm gonna have to address this subject real quick. A lot of people are having the same problem with the UC including myself... I have been a UC user since they first came out. I was the first person at my very popular grow shop to buy one. The problem is that no matter what I try or do and like many more of you I can never get my plants to look completely 100% healthy in the UC and that bothers me a lot....

Now you may say well you just don't know how to grow or hydro is a different animal or some stupid shit but I'm gonna tell you this right now. If you give me a rdwc 5 gal bucket system Ill shit all over your little organic soil plants with a very simple recipe.

All measurements per gal with r/o water @ 5ppm
-5ml botanicare calmag plus
-HG aqua flakes a&b starting at 3 ml from clone and moving up 1 ml every week.
-1ml HG roots excel
-.4ml HG drip clean
-1-3ml HG Multizen
-.8ml-2ml HG Amino Treatment
-5ml Botanicare Aqua Shield
-5ml HG Magic green with dm saturator every 2 weeks.

With that simple recipe I can prove time and time again that this grows completely healthy plants all through veg and if you stick to 1ml or so less then the feeding schedule for aqua flakes a&b with all the supplements and the addition of calmag and aquashield... it will grow completely healthy plants with no flaws at all anywhere all through flower too.

So far in the UC I have tried....
h2o2 flushes, more calmag, less calmag, no calmag, 1/2 tsp gallon epsom, 1/4 tsp gallon epsom, UC Roots, no roots excel, half strength roots excel, full strength, half strength and quarter strength multizen.... and also a few other things and guess what they still look sick... so here lies a problem... How come I can have 2 systems going one being a diy rdwc and one being a uc with the exact same food mix and water going in and one of them could get a spread in high times and the other looks like its got herpes or something.... I think its time to take a look at the materials used in both...

Diy r/dwc...

Plastic submersible h2o pump
regular airstones
rubbermaid containers
plastic buckets
rubber or vinyl tubing....

Simple right.... lets take a look at the uc...

Plastic buckets
mag drive pump
inline chiller
pvc pipe
air diffuser disk
regular airstones
small section of rubber or vinyl tubing....

now that we got those 2 lined up side by side lets look at the differences in the 2. One works great and produces flawless plants and one doesn't...

Mag drive pump
Inline chiller
*PVC PIPE*
air diffuser disk....

Now its time to trouble shoot... What is making the plants in the UC sick?... These are my theorys...

-The UC is just a big rdwc so it cant be the system itself... people been growing rdwc for years.

Im gonna go ahead and state the things I personally feel aren't effecting my plants in the uc first.

-The mag drive pump... I don't see how this could mess anything up when a submersible pump does the exact same thing.

Here is my list of suspects going from most to the least suspect...

Main suspect #1
The PVC pipe... if you google pvc pipe the results you will get are terrifying. They call pvc the poison pipe due to the god awful shit it just naturally releases. Not only that but you have to figure you are running raw minerals some of which include a metal base (copper and iron ect.) through this shit in high concentrations 24/7 ... You guys don't think the toxins in the pvc and the raw minerals in your nutrients are reacting with each other somehow? I personally do... I also feel like cutting the pvc at an angle while a great idea for assembly also exposes the inner layers to this raw solution which can't be good. I am almost 100% convinced that the pvc pipe is whats causing my plants to get sick and not thrive like my all rubber and plastic rdwc. If you read about pvc for 2 seconds it will probably make sense to you too. Also Im not sure pvc is safe for chemical/acid transportation.

Main suspect #2
The coils of the chiller are reacting to the solution somehow from being run inline.

Main suspect #3
The air diffuser disk... The solution is getting aerated so hardcore in the control bucket from the return line out of the chiller crashing into the already heavily aerated water from the diffuser disk that its making the nutrients fall out of the water.

Here is my future experiments I plan on doing...

In this order until it gets pinpointed...

#1 Replace all pvc in the system with a pvc alternative... so far I have found hdpe pipe im looking into that as we speak... either that or downsize the pipe size to 1" and use 1" tubing and bulkheads instead.

if that doesnt fix it....

#2 Get a cool coil for the chiller and disconnect the chiller from the system so its doing its own thing with its own water...

if that doesnt fix it...

#3 Scrap the air diffuser disk as im sure the water is getting aerated enough in the control bucket from the return line crashing down on the water anyway.

and if that doesn't fix it....

I will be using 8 gal buckets just like the uc and build a big rdwc and go back to what I know works I am getting tired of playing with this shit.

Anybody have any opinions about this? Please chime in

 

[deacon1503]

I believe full disassembly is key to repeatable success. While I dont think its a pvc issue, u forgot to mention the uni-seals.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I believe full disassembly is key to repeatable success. While I dont think its a pvc issue, u forgot to mention the uni-seals.

good point that could be another potential problem :yes

 

[All4freedumb]

What up QB, glad to see you posting somethin new.. I know better than to say anything about your growing skills, that shouldn't be questioned. I am interested in hearing some results. I personally feel I have got better plant health since I rerouted the water flow in my UC. I broke up my UC and turned it into a two room flip flop running off one epi. When I did this I watched and played with my water flow. I came up with something that worked much better for the way I have things set up. I pull water from my epi, through the chiller and back to the rear manifolds of each system. I am also using a second pump pulling from epi to a feeding line direct to each bucket. I have cut the systems return rate in half and insured an even mix throughout system. This change has dramatically changed the look and health of the girls. Only one thing you wanted to try was done. I no longer drop water and use diffuser in my epi. I chalked it up as a better flow rate and individual bucket lines.. Curious...

When I first found the UC and started my research on it I read up on pvc and remember reading the same info. I don't remember the full conclusioni came up with after talking with a few people from Sears (pvc manufacture), plumbers and a friend that used to own a water store. If I remember correctly the fact that we don't run high pressure or have water/chemicals sitting stagnant we wouldn't have that to worry about. From what I remember that decay is from years of damage to the pvc. I do not claim to know a Damn thing here, I'm just shooting the shit picking my brain.. I look forward to your findings..

 

[QuarterbackMo]

I believe full disassembly is key to repeatable success. While I dont think its a pvc issue, u forgot to mention the uni-seals.

I don't even think that's it... this has been going on from day one... and even after a full cleaning its still doing it. I use to think it was just my cch2o uc until I built my own to their exact specs and I am having the exact same issues with the brand new one and this is after being a uc grower for like almost 2 years now...

 

[QuarterbackMo]

What up QB, glad to see you posting somethin new.. I know better than to say anything about your growing skills, that shouldn't be questioned. I am interested in hearing some results. I personally feel I have got better plant health since I rerouted the water flow in my UC. I broke up my UC and turned it into a two room flip flop running off one epi. When I did this I watched and played with my water flow. I came up with something that worked much better for the way I have things set up. I pull water from my epi, through the chiller and back to the rear manifolds of each system. I am also using a second pump pulling from epi to a feeding line direct to each bucket. I have cut the systems return rate in half and insured an even mix throughout system. This change has dramatically changed the look and health of the girls. Only one thing you wanted to try was done. I no longer drop water and use diffuser in my epi. I chalked it up as a better flow rate and individual bucket lines.. Curious...

When I first found the UC and started my research on it I read up on pvc and remember reading the same info. I don't remember the full conclusioni came up with after talking with a few people from Sears (pvc manufacture), plumbers and a friend that used to own a water store. If I remember correctly the fact that we don't run high pressure or have water/chemicals sitting stagnant we wouldn't have that to worry about. From what I remember that decay is from years of damage to the pvc. I do not claim to know a Damn thing here, I'm just shooting the shit picking my brain.. I look forward to your findings..

I appreciate your contribution to this thread... I thank you my friend :)

 

[QuarterbackMo]

For example this pic was taken with a regular dwc... how many of you can say you have had a plant that looked like this in your UC? I have had good looking plants in the UC but this is the health I am talking about when I say my plants don't look healthy... its because they don't look like this...

Now providing I didn't kill this plant off this would have looked like this in this system till the end. I just don't understand why I can't replicate this in the UC.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Or this... This pic was taken after about a week of straight up neglect due to the fact I was about to cut them down and take clones (bubba og journal)... the solution in here was around 4 weeks old and the water levels were way low compared to where they started. The overall health of these plants is still better then probably my best run on a great day in the UC...

 

[E.T.]

great thread. +1

 

[cultleader]

Hmm, I hope you get it figured out.

 

[hiboy]

Have u found any results on ABS.?
Vinyl tubing is in all grows pretty much, wondering if that could be sealed from bucket to bucket. Thinking back now and pondering my thoughts, i have a drip feed to my tables made out of 3/4 inch pvc. The girls look healthy.
Things that make u go hmmmmmmmmmmm
hb

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Have u found any results on ABS.?
Vinyl tubing is in all grows pretty much, wondering if that could be sealed from bucket to bucket. Thinking back now and pondering my thoughts, i have a drip feed to my tables made out of 3/4 inch pvc. The girls look healthy.
Things that make u go hmmmmmmmmmmm
hb

I'm just now getting into looking up what it is I can substitute this out with. So far hdpe seems to be the best choice and it is labeled safe for chemicals and acids and is resistant to uv and not affected by sunlight and does not transfer heat... plus its dark. The hard part is gonna be finding the accessories to make this shit all come together if I use that such as reducing tees and whatnot.

 

[QuarterbackMo]

lets look at these now... this is what slowly plagues my plants in the uc... now you may say I know what that is! It looks like its a lot of things right? Only thing is there is no way to fix it! I feel like I have tried everything take a guess lol...

Explain this... mind you this was growing under the same recipe as the other plants and looks exactly like this.... why?

 

[Billz401]

& i thought it was because i was a noob! Glad to see im not the only one dealing with this issue...this is my 3rd run & i can never get 100% healthy plants...looking forward to hearing what other fellow uc growers have to say..:joint:

 

[deacon1503]

lets look at these now... this is what slowly plagues my plants in the uc... now you may say I know what that is! It looks like its a lot of things right? Only thing is there is no way to fix it! I feel like I have tried everything take a guess lol...

View attachment 196509
View attachment 196510
View attachment 196511

Explain this... mind you this was growing under the same recipe as the other plants and looks exactly like this.... why?

i realize u mentioned uve tried it already, but that looks like textbook cal/mag deficiency to me.

so ur thinking its more of an equipment issue than a plant/environment issue?

 

[QuarterbackMo]

i realize u mentioned uve tried it already, but that looks like textbook cal/mag deficiency to me.

so ur thinking its more of an equipment issue than a plant/environment issue?

Yes I agree 100% thats what it looks like... But why wont anything fix it? It just keeps coming this is on 2 years of grows in the uc btw... I have used calmag between 0-7ml per gallon calmag in the uc and 3ml per gallon foliar and also foliar sprayed epsom and used that with out and with the calmag in the uc... This shit wont stop coming. Also why would there be a calmag problem in the uc and not in rdwc using the same formula on the same size plants? The uc plants just aint got the health of the rdwc even without the spots on the leaves. Also one more interesting thing is if its a deficiency period how come the uc plants still have the vigor and the size? They dont look deficient they look sick... You could look at those leaves and say a few things... Calcium, magnesium, heat stress, plant moisture stress, phosphorous def, co2 burn, ozone burn nutrient burn... Still does not explain why this is all hapening in the first place. As far as enviornment I can assure you that the plant enviornment is 100% optimum 24/7 as I have spent over $13000 on a 2000w room and $18000 on a 3000w room just to insure nothing is ever ever off and im a hvac technician on top of a lot of other things lol I can assure you the enviornment is absolutely 100% optimum...

 

[QuarterbackMo]

Another interest thing to add to this is while I was on the phone with rob from hg the other day we were shooting the shit and whatnot and this was on my mind so I asked him straight up as he is also running uc's in his grow... I asked him has he ever had a completely healthy crop from start to finish in his uc... He pointed out a few possible errors on his part but they werent big errors... At the end of the conversation I bet you cant guess what his answer was... And this is the us sales rep from hg who works with the people you guys are sitting here drooling at on the farm... He deals with the big dogs on a personal basis. Something is definitely wrong if he cant even get it all the way right...

 

[HydroRocks]

What about all the success stories? What about the people that DO NOT have ANY of the problems you mentioned?

Sorry to bust your bubble but the UC is a different system that requires a learning curve no matter what your previous knowledge was. I know of no other system that is designed and performs like the UC. I know of no other system that uses less nutrients than the UC system.

I know experienced growers like to "think" they got it all down because it is RDWC. Wrong answer! No waterfarm or any other system operates and changes osmotic pressure like the UC system.

I got news for ya, we are still learning about WATER, just water! We (the science world) are finding new things out about water every day now!

So I kindly disagree and see more healthy plants than sick ones in a UC system.

PS- I guess if Rob at H&G cant figure it out we are ALL doomed..LOL!! Rob at H&G did not even know about the product he is selling. He thinks Roots Excel has bacteria in it!! LOL!! Rob is a saleman and has lots to learn about growing!!! Rob is the LAST person I would be taking growing advice from.

If you want to discuss on how to improve the UC design then I am all for it! But if your going to bash the UC design just because YOU can not learn how to grow in this type of system and call blame then you got lots to learn my friend!!

 

[HydroRocks]

Below is a picture from medamaneast UC grow here at the farm. Look how sick and unhealthy this plants looks in the UC system.....tiss...tisss....

 

[organicness]

I could be totally wrong but I know capulator and myself had both experienced what we thought was a calcium deficiency that ended up being an overall toxicity that was causing those symptoms. I know that going from pretty much any other hydro system to UC that you're going to see loads more disolved oxygen in the UC and don't need nearly as much nutes in the solution. Have you tried just dialing your whole mix back? Once I did that in my hydro system, everything came back to where it was supposed to be. I was running around 1200ppm and had to halve it and now run around 600-750ppm max. I know lots of folks in UC are running low ppm's. (.5 conversion for me).

Just a thought anyways.