A Comparison of HID Reflectors.

[konakings]

First off just wanted to say thanks again to THC Farmer. Always a wealth of information. In that spirit I wanted to share some intense knowledge that my boys over at Greners.com dropped on our NorCal community a few days ago. These are basic readings done with a lumen meter. Not laboratory results, just your average dudes with a light meter and WAY too many hoods on hand. Enjoy Reading.

I apologize for the posting not lining up, like I said you can go to their website and get the full nice looking version. You need to like their facebook page to get the full pdf, and *shameless plug* check out what else they have for sale. They also have a sweet grow tent review which is highly worth the read.


Some number may suprise you here....Without further ado.....

Ultimate Reflector Test and Guide

What is the best reflector? Greners.com answers this question for you.
Introduction

Reflector efficiency - the total amount of light the reflector puts on a 4'x4' area using a 1000 watt hps bulb, measured at 25 spots (5x5 grid) with the reflector 24" above the surface. Reflector value - efficiency divided by price (bigger numbers are better). We did this testing to answer your questions, provide the best grow light packages, provide accurate recommendations, and save you money by cutting through the hype and letting you pay for performance, not marketing.

Results:

Reflector Efficiency Value Price ePerimeter eInside
Luxor 8" r2 * 779 3.12 $249.95 272.7 506.3
Luxor 8" r1 777.2 3.11 $249.95 267.8 509.4
Blockbuster 6" 728.8 4.86 $149.94 305.0 423.8
Radiant 6" 711.3 5.93 $119.95 292.4 418.9
Blockbuster 8" 677.4 4.37 $154.95 287.6 389.8
Raptor 8" - At 23" 666.2 3.10 $214.95 317.2 349.0
Raptor 8" - At 24" 657.2 3.06 $214.95 316.1 341.1
Radiant 8" 641.6 5.35 $119.95 263.4 378.2
Magnum XXXL 6" 638.6 3.19 $199.95 303.4 335.2
Raptor 8" - At 25" 630.3 2.93 $214.95 310.6 319.7
Adjust-A-Wing Medium ** 612.4 4.47 $136.95 291.9 320.5
Xtrasun Wing 610.8 16.09 $37.95 224.2 386.6
Arctic Sun 6" 555.6 4.75 $116.95 222.7 332.9
Daystar AC 6" 540.4 5.75 $93.95 256.0 284.4
Xtrasun 6" 535.8 6.23 $85.95 254.8 281.0
Melonhead 8" 533.8 3.96 $134.95 231.5 302.3
Cooltube w/ Reflector Wing 6" 516.4 4.92 $104.95 195.7 320.7
Sunspot 6" 507.2 4.83 $104.95 243.6 263.6
Adjust-A-Wing Large ** 489.4 2.58 $189.95 322.0 167.4
Penetrator *** 450.8 3.79 $118.95 218.4 232.4
Parabolic 32" Vertical White *** 396.8 10.19 $38.95 213.1 183.7
Cooltube w/o Reflector Wing 6" 315.9 3.01 $104.95 144.0 171.9

*r2 = Repeat of test
**Without super spreader
***We don't carry this item
Discussion

Measurements - Lumen readings were taken on a 5x5 grid covering a 4'x4' area, using a high quality Hanna instrument, and a decent meter from China. The lowest point of each setup was placed 24" above the surface - so for the vertical parabolic reflector the tip of the bulb was at 24", for the air cooled reflectors the bottom of the glass was at 24". The bulb used was a Hortilux Super HPS EN 1000W (broken in prior to testing), powered by a Lumatek 1000W Dimmable ballast. The ePerimeter value is the sum of the readings along the edge of the grid, the outer 16 spots. The eInside value is the sum of the readings in the center, the inside 9 spots.

Surprises - The Xtrasun Wing reflector did amazingly well and easily earned the best value award. Considering their advertising we were surprised how poorly the Adjust-A-Wing medium performed (the large is intended for an area greater than 4'x4' so no surprise there). It was pleasing to see that the Luxor did live up to the expectations from being engineered from the ground up to be the top performer.

Thoughts - On the accuracy of the data... the results are accurate and useable. We did two different types tests to get a margin of error and out of that testing we get an error span of 3.2%, with 2.3% being on the low side, and 0.9% on the high side. This test does not factor usability and features, it is just about efficiency - for example the XXXL is a much lighter and easier to use reflector than the Raptor, the Melonhead has great airflow, and the Luxor is slightly unwiedly.
Attribution

 

[skywalkerOG]

Anyway I can see the PDF without having to be a member of facebook? Thanks for taking the time to do the test, glad to see there are still getting better. Two years ago the XXXL Magnums where industry standard, and now are looking outdated.

 

[Papa]

konakings, thanks for the info, but i'd have trouble relying upon this for a couple of reasons. first, and generally, because it is very easy to get inaccurate measurements both untintentionally (do to ignorance of lighting testing standards) as well as intentionally, it's best to have an independent testing laboratory do comparisons like this. Standards have been developed and approved for this purpose by the Illumination Engineering Society.
second, and specifically, the fact that they don't even know what they are attempting to measure ("Lumen readings were taken . . . ") tells me they don't know what they're doing.

 

[TylerDurden119]

siiik. i was just about set to get a bunch of medium adjust a wings. but this has me re-thinking that.

 

[konakings]

Og Not sure, maybe you can join the phenomenon enon enon....

Hey Papi, thanks but remember thumper... lol

"My two cents" No need to read if you dont care.

Yeah if an independent laboratory would do the test and post the results it would be great! However I would fear those results mostly because of the big bucks it takes one of those companies to do testing like that. It would probably require an actual manufacturer to pony up the bucks, once you have manufacturers funding the research most of the scientific integrity goes out the window.

This simple test was done by local guys from NorCal who work in the industry and wanted to cut through the marketing hype around hoods. Since no one else (that Ive found) has done this research it has been left up to average joe's like us to figure out what works best. That is simply what was done here, it was never presented as a definite or professional laboratory study. Just presented as info.

I understand the difference between laboratory testing and just sticking a lumen meter under the hood. That is what was done with these tests and they were repeated with multiple hoods using the exact same methods. The info received, was cataloged and utilized in a chart. This is not a professional light analysis, but will STILL give a very good idea of what your lumen meter reads when it is under the hood. Which is very obvious from the post itself.... and can be very VERY helpful to the majority of growers. Especially those looking to spends $1,000s on new light setup.

I think this has merit unto itself, especially since I dont see anyone else posting any other links in here or on other sites*cough.* That even do ANY testing themselves, or really anything other than providing anecdotal evidence. (Would love to see these if anyone has any!)

I have never seen any other reflector guides that went half as far as these guys did. With the multiple hoods, new hoods, old hoods, air cooled, adjust a winds etc etc... I mean obviously this wont match up to an independent laboratory testing BUT to knock it (and say they dont know what they are doing) when they are very clearly showing you what they DO know (even if it isnt everything a professional lab would do) is imho lame and being an armchair engineer.

Ya know what, maybe Ill just erase the whole post and not share the info because it wasnt done by a certified laboratory team.

God knows I wouldnt want to sully up your forums with tested and repeatable info from individuals who are in the industry... I mean you only ever have completely qualified and professional people from laboratories who have years in the industry and state certification post information that was independently double blind tested by two universities. Right?

Either way Im not mad (I get glad not mad) : ) I simply wanted to defend my guys and their work (even from a mod.) I appreciate having the spot to share info, and as always love to hear feedback from everyone. That is what makes forums great the sharing of info....
Cheers

 

[dankworth]

Super sun 2 ;)

 

[skwirlgirl]

Awesome that someone would do this. Sure it's not a 'professional' test but it sure looks good enough for the average home grower.

From the beginning the Industry has thrown 'crap' at the consumer with glossy ad campaigns. I see all kinds of lights with 'flat' sides that in all reason can't really cover that 4x4 area....and kids buy them up haha

Not sure how to read that list but it looks like Radiants did real good for an older design. I love radiants. Been using stock non air cooled ones since they came out. I don't see the non air cooled one on the list though. I'm curious to see how a standard Radiant would do with the xtra surface area.

Also I'd love to see them measured at 3 FEET since that's where my lights spend most of their time

Plus I don't see SUPER SUNS in that list. Those are my second favorite light for sure. Supposedly real good at 'spread'.

 

[Papa]

kk, perhaps i misused the term "my 2 cents." i didn't intend for it to mean that i don't care. 'quite the opposite. i see misinformation all the time regarding lighting, and having spent decades in the industry, it bugs the hell outta me.

i appreciate the effort these guys put into this, and it may (or may not) provide a representation of the better reflector choice . . . but as i attempted to explain earlier . . . there are many mistakes that can inadvertently be made that would skew the results.

yes, testing is normally paid for by the manufacturer, but to suggest that a certified lab would doctor results because of this is irresponsible. illumination engineering is a profession that should not be confused with the hodge-podge of lighting (both hid, but especially led) manufacturers that service the cannabis community.

"I mean obviously this wont match up to an independent laboratory testing BUT to knock it (and say they dont know what they are doing) when they are very clearly showing you what they DO know (even if it isnt everything a professional lab would do) is imho lame and being an armchair engineer."

to be clear, i believe their intentions were good, and again, what was done may provide a representation of the better reflector choice . . . but to demonstrate that they do not know what they're doing, lumen output is done with an integrating sphere, and not with "a high quality Hanna instrument, and a decent meter from China." perhaps they meant to say that they were measuring footcandles or lux rather than lumens? but my point is, how much would you trust my expertise if i told you that i kept my water temperature at 64.5 inches? maybe it's just a simple mistake, and maybe that's the only one they made.

an integrating sphere:

 

[skwirlgirl]

alot of that data confirms what I already suspected about certain hoods.

 

[konakings]

:)

 

[Papa]

However I am super pissed you edited my original post. Really, come on.

In fact I kinda feel like I want to take down all the information from it and let people find it on their own BECAUSE you censored the obviously quoted shameless (but small) plug that I threw in from Greners.com BECAUSE they did all the work.

If you cant deal with that shameless (but small, literally three sentences, one explaining that I do not work for them, the other explaining how to get their pdf with all the info) plug for a company that shows this info to its customers I would rather not share it with your community.

Censoring sucks and you know it.

i didn't edit your post, if i had, it would say "Last edited by Papa" under it.

here is a pretty standard test report on a luminaire:

so how about we change the title from "Ultimate Reflector Test and Guide with Quantifiable Numbers!" to "A Comparison of HID Reflectors"?

 

[SweetTooth]

Its too bad they didn't test the verizontal. They probably didnt want to assemble the bugger lol.

 

[skwirlgirl]

I'm gonna do my own test...with only my 20/20 my vision. I will call it the 'That hood looks brighter' test:cool0010: haha..too much pissin in this thread. Ya'll made your point about pro light tests so.... see ya...

 

[ibTheMan]

Here goes some science for yah Magnum xxxl 6" =tons oh yield,lol

 

[konakings]

Haha assumption always kicks me in the ass. You were one of the first comments so I "assumed" you were the mod that approved my thread. That was the mod that edited my post. I apologize if I got off on the wrong foot with you. And have taken your suggestion at editing my posting title. That is a sweet post earlier, do you have any more of those? Do you think each manufacturer has done this with their reflectors?

Interesting to see what it would cost to get an independent laboratory to do the tests.

Either way thanks for the solid input, there is a lot of stoner science out there in this industry and it is always refreshing to get a knowledgeable perspective.

For my money Ive been loving the raptor, it hits the edges of my 4x8 table better, and it runs a couple degrees cooler than the magnum. I was debating if I could turn them sideways and run 3 to a table! The luxors look interesting. Anyone have personal experience with them?

 

[Papa]

no prob kk.

that sample test report is very standard, i've seen thousands of them. from that info, you can compute what light levels you'll get at any point, at any distance. you can accurately design a room before you've bought a single hood. you can examine dofferent spacing, on paper. you can compare hoods accurately. you can compute what a change in lamp is expected to do. it's golden, and i look forward to the day that manufacturers of hoods provide them. the cost would be minimal for them.

if any manufacturers out there are sincerely interested, i'll help you set up a program.

i've done tests like what these guys have done with architectural luminairs, probably over a hundred times. like i said earlier, it can give a good direction and a valuable comparison between options . . . but the experience proved to me again and again that the numbers are not accurate (sometimes i got 30% difference from pro testing), and it's really easy to assume that your testing conditions are identical between units when they actually are not. although it may not be "Ultimate", as a rough comparison, it's fantastic info!

thanks for posting it up!

 

[TylerDurden119]

most of these hoods are air cooled. id like to see a test with some regular models. but just going off those numbers im gona check out the radiants based on their value rating, the medium adjust a wings and the super suns based on the farm feedback.

 

[labud]

I'm assuming this is 1000 wtt. any data on best 600 wtt. reflector or 400 wtt?

 

[click80]

Og Not sure, maybe you can join the phenomenon enon enon....

Hey Papi, thanks but remember thumper... lol

"My two cents" No need to read if you dont care.

Yeah if an independent laboratory would do the test and post the results it would be great! However I would fear those results mostly because of the big bucks it takes one of those companies to do testing like that. It would probably require an actual manufacturer to pony up the bucks, once you have manufacturers funding the research most of the scientific integrity goes out the window.

This simple test was done by local guys from NorCal who work in the industry and wanted to cut through the marketing hype around hoods. Since no one else (that Ive found) has done this research it has been left up to average joe's like us to figure out what works best. That is simply what was done here, it was never presented as a definite or professional laboratory study. Just presented as info.

I understand the difference between laboratory testing and just sticking a lumen meter under the hood. That is what was done with these tests and they were repeated with multiple hoods using the exact same methods. The info received, was cataloged and utilized in a chart. This is not a professional light analysis, but will STILL give a very good idea of what your lumen meter reads when it is under the hood. Which is very obvious from the post itself.... and can be very VERY helpful to the majority of growers. Especially those looking to spends $1,000s on new light setup.

I think this has merit unto itself, especially since I dont see anyone else posting any other links in here or on other sites*cough.* That even do ANY testing themselves, or really anything other than providing anecdotal evidence. (Would love to see these if anyone has any!)

I have never seen any other reflector guides that went half as far as these guys did. With the multiple hoods, new hoods, old hoods, air cooled, adjust a winds etc etc... I mean obviously this wont match up to an independent laboratory testing BUT to knock it (and say they dont know what they are doing) when they are very clearly showing you what they DO know (even if it isnt everything a professional lab would do) is imho lame and being an armchair engineer.

Ya know what, maybe Ill just erase the whole post and not share the info because it wasnt done by a certified laboratory team.

God knows I wouldnt want to sully up your forums with tested and repeatable info from individuals who are in the industry... I mean you only ever have completely qualified and professional people from laboratories who have years in the industry and state certification post information that was independently double blind tested by two universities. Right?

Either way Im not mad (I get glad not mad) : ) I simply wanted to defend my guys and their work (even from a mod.) I appreciate having the spot to share info, and as always love to hear feedback from everyone. That is what makes forums great the sharing of info....
Cheers

I don't know if it's been updated, but Cervantes (?) who wrote the "Med Mar Growers Bible" did tests and his seemed to be well designed. Something to compare these with maybe? Just FYI and I am sure most growers have seen those tests due to the popularity of the book. But, like I said I am not sure if it's been updated. I outgrew that book a while back.

I would LOVE to hear, private message as it's a little off topic, but I would love to hear what anyone has to say about the cheaper bulbs out now like Plant Max and Ultra Sun. Very curious since they seem to get good reviews on ebay and amazon especially considering that you can afford to replace them every grow.

 

[konakings]

For the record, JackMayOffer recommends using a adjust a wing medium (or was it large?) with a 1000 watt bulb. He says screw cleaning the glass and blocking your light. Get a bigger AC. Seal the room, and cool the room, not the light. After seeing his results I would have to agree.