A Decision Needs To Be Made..

[crimsonecho]

Yeah, I was thinking you'd get two fixtures like the ones I'm running but forgot about the active cooling. You could probably get away with a single big 200mm PWM static pressure fan to draw the heat off of them. Those actually look like decent sise heat sinks. With the build quality of ShenZhen's products they might have overcompensated for safety but at the same time they do love efficiency so they might be dead on spec. Probably better not to risk it though. I don't know enough yet about COBs to know exactly how much heat sink surface area would be required. Been a long time since I've had to do any electronics calculations. All my training is still bangin around in my head somewhere I just need to read through a book or two and it'll come back. I don't know where I've got my little electronics dictionary stashed or if I gave it away.

I was playing with the idea of liquid cooling.

Yeah the individual heatsinks look decent and may work on its own but as you said its better not to risk it. Afterall you’re doubling the wattage so it would emit a lot more heat.

If you’re gonna do all the work buy the parts individually, i’m sure you can get a better fixture and it would cost less.

 

[crimsonecho]

I'm planning on designing a new grow system, based on these newer cob designs. I know my biggest problem is excess heat. Modular design is also needed. The market is young and the development on LEDs is phenomenal. I worked as a electronics tech for years, so I'm very familiar with the nuts/bolts. Its just crazy how the newer cobs developed. Within 2 weeks they went from DC only to integrated 85-240 VAC input power and available in 15 or more discreet colors...as well as a very generous full spectrum that fill all the "holes" in most spectrums. Cree are considered premium, but they are being challenged every day.

Yeah its a preference of course. Personally i prefer a good full spectrum but you can add far reds or a little more 420-450nm blues or 620-660 reds. It would help i’m sure.

Heat is easy to deal with just as long as you got enough heatsinks to dissipate it.

Well as long as talking about crees and cobs, yeah they are considered to be one of the best but if you really think about it, seeing as the wattage drops the efficiency rises, qbs are better than cobs alltogether.

Their lm/w values are very good, considerably better than cobs. If you have the means to get them, you should imo. You can design a fixture where you use qbs for full spectrum effect and supplement with dedicated colors (10 watt cobs or something so you can still keep it pretty close to the canopy).

 

[SmithsJunk]

I'm planning on designing a new grow system, based on these newer cob designs. I know my biggest problem is excess heat. Modular design is also needed. The market is young and the development on LEDs is phenomenal. I worked as a electronics tech for years, so I'm very familiar with the nuts/bolts. Its just crazy how the newer cobs developed. Within 2 weeks they went from DC only to integrated 85-240 VAC input power and available in 15 or more discreet colors...as well as a very generous full spectrum that fill all the "holes" in most spectrums. Cree are considered premium, but they are being challenged every day.

I've got some ideas but I don't want to throw them out there yet because they might be patentable. It's not that I'm stingy, I just don't want someone else patenting my ideas and locking me out. If I do something I'd probably end up open sourcing it so it's locked open for people to use. I believe in free market. So, for me it's about the best builds, not sequestered ideas.

I was a USAF "Attic Rat" (telephone, inside plant). Been a good long time and a lot of pain medication ago. Opiates just terrorise the old memory banks. My illness complicates things even more though. Been trying to rebuild my mind for a number of years now but it's been a long hard road. When I was a tech I was constantly mulling over new designs. I was working with tech from the 1940's-80's so I did a lot of hands on board work. I can't even fathom how far I could have gone with today's tech and programmable Pi/Ardueno devices. We had just started to get into remote control using landlines and laptops when I was in.

It's fun to brainstorm with you guys. It's helping me a lot in rebuilding access to that old training and experience.

 

[crimsonecho]

I've got some ideas but I don't want to throw them out there yet because they might be patentable. It's not that I'm stingy, I just don't want someone else patenting my ideas and locking me out. If I do something I'd probably end up open sourcing it so it's locked open for people to use. I believe in free market. So, for me it's about the best builds, not sequestered ideas.

I was a USAF "Attic Rat" (telephone, inside plant). Been a good long time and a lot of pain medication ago. Opiates just terrorise the old memory banks. My illness complicates things even more though. Been trying to rebuild my mind for a number of years now but it's been a long hard road. When I was a tech I was constantly mulling over new designs. I was working with tech from the 1940's-80's so I did a lot of hands on board work. I can't even fathom how far I could have gone with today's tech and programmable Pi/Ardueno devices. We had just started to get into remote control using landlines and laptops when I was in.

It's fun to brainstorm with you guys. It's helping me a lot in rebuilding access to that old training and experience.

Well if you have that kind of motives lets keep it hush hush :)

It seems like you have a good background. I’m sure you will get your head back together in time.

As for brainstorming, any time man, i like to brainstorm myself :D

 

[SmithsJunk]

Yeah its a preference of course. Personally i prefer a good full spectrum but you can add far reds or a little more 420-450nm blues or 620-660 reds. It would help i’m sure.

Heat is easy to deal with just as long as you got enough heatsinks to dissipate it.

Well as long as talking about crees and cobs, yeah they are considered to be one of the best but if you really think about it, seeing as the wattage drops the efficiency rises, qbs are better than cobs alltogether.

Their lm/w values are very good, considerably better than cobs. If you have the means to get them, you should imo. You can design a fixture where you use qbs for full spectrum effect and supplement with dedicated colors (10 watt cobs or something so you can still keep it pretty close to the canopy).

I'm loving the new QB + COB builds I've been seeing. I think there might be something to it. I don't think concentrated COBs are dead tech yet (not that I'm saying you do). They are still designing new chips with spectrum and efficiency improvements. Who knows what nutty sh*t they'll come up with next.

Remember AC vs DC, Edison vs Tesla. Imagine what the world could be today if they would have moved forward with wall powered DC as well.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Well if you have that kind of motives lets keep it hush hush :)

It seems like you have a good background. I’m sure you will get your head back together in time.

As for brainstorming, any time man, i like to brainstorm myself :D

I sure hope I can. Thanks.

If I get back even a fraction it'll be awesome.

I have a couple tech degrees. Had most of the credits but never really pursued my BS.

 

[crimsonecho]

I'm loving the new QB + COB builds I've been seeing. I think there might be something to it. I don't think concentrated COBs are dead tech yet (not that I'm saying you do). They are still designing new chips with spectrum and efficiency improvements. Who knows what nutty sh*t they'll come up with next.

Remember AC vs DC, Edison vs Tesla. Imagine what the world could be today if they would have moved forward with wall powered DC as well.

I’m not that familiar with the ac/dc debate actually. I see it is theoretically safer and know edison is a thief but not much else :) I’m educated in cinema and photography :D You can enlighten me on the subject if you wish.

Yeah i’m sure there is much more room for improvement in cobs and they will only get better in time but they probably will never be as efficient as the little diodes imo.

 

[SmithsJunk]

I’m not that familiar with the ac/dc debate actually. I see it is theoretically safer and know edison is a thief but not much else :) I’m educated in cinema and photography :D You can enlighten me on the subject if you wish.

Yeah i’m sure there is much more room for improvement in cobs and they will only get better in time but they probably will never be as efficient as the little diodes imo.

ROFL, there's where I have problems. I have a general idea and this jumbled mess of information I can't sort. It's like watching a movie that's playing backwards and skipping.

I do remember that they couldn't get DC to travel well and Tesla had already designed a system for wireless transmission (out of wood no less, hahaha). I think there's a really good History Channel documentary on it if you can find it. Sh*t, it's probably on demand. Tesla was so far beyond us that we're only now starting to catch up.

 

[crimsonecho]

ROFL, there's where I have problems. I have a general idea and this jumbled mess of information I can't sort. It's like watching a movie that's playing backwards and skipping.

I do remember that they couldn't get DC to travel well and Tesla had already designed a system for wireless transmission (out of wood no less, hahaha). I think there's a really good History Channel documentary on it if you can find it. Sh*t, it's probably on demand. Tesla was so far beyond us that we're only now starting to catch up.

Yeah man love Tesla. Fucking genius! I’ll look into it see if i can find that documentary or at least something in that nature :)

 

[SmithsJunk]

Yeah man love Tesla. Fucking genius! I’ll look into it see if i can find that documentary or at least something in that nature :)

A couple more things this discussion just churned up... When he was doing his transmission tests, horses miles away were freaking out because the fields he generated were causing static discharges between the ground and their metal shoes. Who knows, we might have developed high quality ceramic composites early on as a solution if his DC transmission became commonplace.

Also, it's rumored that he succeeded in creating ball lightening. A high intensity plasma charge contained and sustained in some sort of field. That's like light sabre tech man! Dude was touched by God. The stuff he was doing was impossible. Basically like magic to our primitive minds

(ie; It took me 5 min to remember the word "primative". I was eventually able to find it by associating it with a line from "Army of Darkness". Go figure, haha. I wouldn't wish memory problems on my worst enemy. At least when I post on the forum it gives me the time to organise enough associations that I can usually convey complete thoughts. Believe it or not, weed helps.)

 

[crimsonecho]

A couple more things this discussion just churned up... When he was doing his transmission tests, horses miles away were freaking out because the fields he generated were causing static discharges between the ground and their metal shoes. Who knows, we might have developed high quality ceramic composites early on as a solution if his DC transmission became commonplace.

Also, it's rumored that he succeeded in creating ball lightening. A high intensity plasma charge contained and sustained in some sort of field. That's like light sabre tech man! Dude was touched by God. The stuff he was doing was impossible. Basically like magic to our primitive minds

(ie; It took me 5 min to remember the word "primative". I was eventually able to find it by associating it with a line from "Army of Darkness". Go figure, haha. I wouldn't wish memory problems on my worst enemy. At least when I post on the forum it gives me the time to organise enough associations that I can usually convey complete thoughts. Believe it or not, weed helps.)

Well i don’t believe in god but i do believe some people are freaks. Tesla was a freak. People got scared. Idiots! Freaks are usually the smartest people in the world. Definitely ingeniuty got wasted on people who got scared by a movie of a train pulling into a station. (I use this as an analogy as it is not certain that people got into panic or not)

Yeah memory problems are the worst. What do you have exactly?

 

[scubascrog]

Well i don’t believe in god but i do believe some people are freaks. Tesla was a freak. People got scared. Idiots! Freaks are usually the smartest people in the world. Definitely ingeniuty got wasted on people who got scared by a movie of a train pulling into a station. (I use this as an analogy as it is not certain that people got into panic or not)

Yeah memory problems are the worst. What do you have exactly?

I agree with that totally. the more you understand about the universe and physics the more off the beaten path you are. hehe

 

[SmithsJunk]

Well i don’t believe in god but i do believe some people are freaks. Tesla was a freak. People got scared. Idiots! Freaks are usually the smartest people in the world. Definitely ingeniuty got wasted on people who got scared by a movie of a train pulling into a station. (I use this as an analogy as it is not certain that people got into panic or not)

Yeah memory problems are the worst. What do you have exactly?

FYI, not proselytising. Just the only way I could think to explain him.

I'm in an advanced stage of a degenerative autoimmune disease called Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome. There are a myriad of other problems with me as well like osteonecrosis, arthritis, prominent lymph nodes, and liver disease. Not a drinker. Think it has something to do with the RSDS or whatever as of yet unidentified illness. A vascular surgeon was responsible for the RSDS diagnosis and it was a relief finally putting a name to something that finally fit my symptoms.

 

[FutureGrower]

I'm loving the new QB + COB builds I've been seeing. I think there might be something to it. I don't think concentrated COBs are dead tech yet (not that I'm saying you do). They are still designing new chips with spectrum and efficiency improvements. Who knows what nutty sh*t they'll come up with next.

Remember AC vs DC, Edison vs Tesla. Imagine what the world could be today if they would have moved forward with wall powered DC as well.

Edison bought the DC patent because it wasnt viable in current form hired Tesla to help make it viable and he came up with DC voltage. Edison was angry that he didnt think about it and refused to pay Tesla. Tesla still managed to get the AC out. One problem was with its ability to be stored and go long distances as you mentioned it just didnt work our great. Edison was a son of a bitch though really huge coward.

 

[FutureGrower]

FYI, not proselytising. Just the only way I could think to explain him.

I'm in an advanced stage of a degenerative autoimmune disease called Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome. There are a myriad of other problems with me as well like osteonecrosis, arthritis, prominent lymph nodes, and liver disease. Not a drinker. Think it has something to do with the RSDS or whatever as of yet unidentified illness. A vascular surgeon was responsible for the RSDS diagnosis and it was a relief finally putting a name to something that finally fit my symptoms.

I'm sorry to hear. Hang I there, you seem like a great person wish I could hug you brother. I'm not deeply religious but I'll say a prayer for you bud.

 

[crimsonecho]

FYI, not proselytising. Just the only way I could think to explain him.

I'm in an advanced stage of a degenerative autoimmune disease called Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy Syndrome. There are a myriad of other problems with me as well like osteonecrosis, arthritis, prominent lymph nodes, and liver disease. Not a drinker. Think it has something to do with the RSDS or whatever as of yet unidentified illness. A vascular surgeon was responsible for the RSDS diagnosis and it was a relief finally putting a name to something that finally fit my symptoms.

Man that sucks, the way our bodies fuck themselves up slowly! I hope it gets better, at least the symptoms. Its so fucking amazing how every one of us is constantly moving towards nothingness and keep it cool :D

 

[crimsonecho]

Edison bought the DC patent because it wasnt viable in current form hired Tesla to help make it viable and he came up with DC voltage. Edison was angry that he didnt think about it and refused to pay Tesla. Tesla still managed to get the AC out. One problem was with its ability to be stored and go long distances as you mentioned it just didnt work our great. Edison was a son of a bitch though really huge coward.

Yeah he was :)
I know him from my cinema history lessons. Fucking patent hog! He contributed greatly to the Hollywood tho, by driving filmmakers away from the east coast with his intellectual property claims.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Edison bought the DC patent because it wasnt viable in current form hired Tesla to help make it viable and he came up with DC voltage. Edison was angry that he didnt think about it and refused to pay Tesla. Tesla still managed to get the AC out. One problem was with its ability to be stored and go long distances as you mentioned it just didnt work our great. Edison was a son of a bitch though really huge coward.

I'm sorry to hear. Hang I there, you seem like a great person wish I could hug you brother. I'm not deeply religious but I'll say a prayer for you bud.

Thank you. I appreciate that very much. Truly though, I'm in the best place I've been in a very long time. Friend, I have had my moments on here, good and bad. I'm glad you've stuck around after all this time. All helpful on the boards and sh*t (with your stealth noob camouflage avatar. Hahaha).

You really put the whole Edison vs Tesla thing into a few words, while remaining neutral on the science aspects, that's solid dude. Everybody who knows, knows Edison was a complete tool, so that isn't a point of debate anyway. It's like every time you see his name in print there's a set of parenthesis next to it conaining a semi-expletive adjective.

 

[FutureGrower]

Thank you. I appreciate that very much. Truly though, I'm in the best place I've been in a very long time. Friend, I have had my moments on here, good and bad. I'm glad you've stuck around after all this time. All helpful on the boards and sh*t (with your stealth noob camouflage avatar. Hahaha).

You really put the whole Edison vs Tesla thing into a few words, while remaining neutral on the science aspects, that's solid dude. Everybody who knows, knows Edison was a complete tool, so that isn't a point of debate anyway. It's like every time you see his name in print there's a set of parenthesis next to it conaining a semi-expletive adjective.

Thank you for the kind words as well!

Yeah that is the truth man it's one thing history got right (edison being a dick lol)

But I go on tangents about Tesla I'll read for hours and if I'm stoned enough I become like a little kid. Really cool person wish there was more in depth descriptions of how his brain worked, he was genuinely a special person!

 

[crimsonecho]

Ah by the way this is my clone tent using a single cxb1830 6500K ran at 1400ma. Its about 50 watts. Since its the part of the same build it thought it would be nice to show what these babies can do. The mothers are getting weekly defoliation and pruning. Man they grow quickly.

This is a 2x2 tent and when i say tent i mean it like a tent for camping, its just shaped like that. So it gets narrower as you go higher.