A Decision Needs To Be Made..

[SmithsJunk]

Ah by the way this is my clone tent using a single cxb1830 6500K ran at 1400ma. Its about 50 watts. Since its the part of the same build it thought it would be nice to show what these babies can do. The mothers are getting weekly defoliation and pruning. Man they grow quickly.

This is a 2x2 tent and when i say tent i mean it like a tent for camping, its just shaped like that. So it gets narrower as you go higher.

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Wow, that thing is bright. I've read the CXBs can run way above spec. Like a 100w is actually closer to 130w. I need to change the driver on my x1 and add a dimmer. It's set at 67w which is around half it's ability. Mostly I want the dimmer so I can run it at the exact same height as my x2. Right now I have to stagger them and it's a pain.

 

[crimsonecho]

Wow, that thing is bright. I've read the CXBs can run way above spec. Like a 100w is actually closer to 130w. I need to change the driver on my x1 and add a dimmer. It's set at 67w which is around half it's ability. Mostly I want the dimmer so I can run it at the exact same height as my x2. Right now I have to stagger them and it's a pain.
View attachment 843865

Yeah i’m sure with proper heat management it could run a bit higher but i wouldn’t run it that high, the eficiency and all and even at this wattage i’m getting readings like these (pics below).

Man if i only had dimmable drivers. I can’t just wrap my head around connecting a potentiometer and would it even work with my lpc700s or can it be connected to anything, if so where? Do you connect it after the driver or in between the power source and the driver. I don’t know.

Hmm a good research subject has presented itself :)

 

[SmithsJunk]

Yeah i’m sure with proper heat management it could run a bit higher but i wouldn’t run it that high, the eficiency and all and even at this wattage i’m getting readings like these (pics below).

Man if i only had dimmable drivers. I can’t just wrap my head around connecting a potentiometer and would it even work with my lpc700s or can be connected to anything, if so where? Do you connect şt after the driver or in between the power source and the driver. I don’t know.

Hmm a good research subject has presented itself :)

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Finding out how the dimmer is hooked up was the main reason I wanted to crack my x2 open. I think it requires a dimmable diver. I've seen fixtures and kits advertised as using "dimmable" drivers. I'll check after this grow ends.

 

[crimsonecho]

Finding out how the dimmer is hooked up was the main reason I wanted to crack my x2 open. I think it requires a dimmable diver. I've seen fixtures and kits advertised as using "dimmable" drivers. I'll check after this grow ends.

Well dimmable drivers have integrated potentiometers. You adjust it with a screwdriver. Shit this thing will bother me till i find out :)

 

[SmithsJunk]

Well dimmable drivers have integrated potentiometers. You adjust it with a screwdriver. Shit this thing will bother me till i find out :)

I thought they meant that the driver is capable of being adjusted using a what, potentiometer or rheostat? I never caught which device is used. I don't know the internal workings of a driver. They appear to be a lot more complex than traditional ballasts. If the dimmer is built in then it would have to be directly attached to the driver, which I haven't seen, if it still requires an external wired dimmer wouldn't that be pointless, redundant, and a hit to efficiency?

 

[crimsonecho]

I thought they meant that the driver is capable of being adjusted using a what, potentiometer or rheostat? I never caught which device is used. I don't know the internal workings of a driver. They appear to be a lot more complex than traditional ballasts. If the dimmer is built in then it would have to be directly attached to the driver, which I haven't seen, if it still requires an external wired dimmer wouldn't that be pointless, redundant, and a hit to efficiency?

Well dimmable drivers work like that and you can adjust from a screw hole which houses the dimmer.

Yeah lets not call it potentiometer :) its just my random name for anything that controls current :D

Bit old but makes some good points tho not specifically about dimming cobs or the placing of the dimmer itself. Its mostly about led bulbs.

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/dimming_webcast_12-10-2012.pdf

Also found out you wire it in after the driver. At least in this led strip build the guy does that with that dimmer.

https://www.ecolocityled.com/category/led_tutorials_pwm

Which makes sense as it needs to adjust the current going into the leds and not to the drivers. Drivers won’t work if they don’t get the required wattage (volts and current) but leds will.

 

[SmithsJunk]

By the way, Echo, I'm really really enjoying our tech banter and it's been very therapeutic for my recovery. But if you feel taxed by the convo or I'm going too far off topic, please let me know and I'll find somewhere else to play. With no offense taken. I can be a bit overwhelming for some people. Because of my OCD, when I get going on a subject like this my mind tends to lock on like a Pitbull and processes the the info cycle, after cycle, after cycle, etc... making modifications each time, like a flowchart (even while asleep).

 

[SmithsJunk]

Well dimmable drivers work like that and you can adjust from a screw hole which houses the dimmer.

Yeah lets not call it potentiometer :) its just my random name for anything that controls current :D

Bit old but makes some good points

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/dimming_webcast_12-10-2012.pdf

Also found out you wire it in after the driver. At least in this led strip build the guy does that with that dimmer.

https://www.ecolocityled.com/category/led_tutorials_pwm

Which makes sense as it needs to adjust the current going into the leds and not to the drivers. Drivers won’t work if they don’t get the required wattage (volts and current) but leds will.

Right on, checking out those links now.

 

[crimsonecho]

By the way, Echo, I'm really really enjoying our tech banter and it's been very therapeutic for my recovery. But if you feel taxed by the convo or I'm going too far off topic, please let me know and I'll find somewhere else to play. With no offense taken. I can be a bit overwhelming for some people. Because of my OCD, when I get going on a subject like this my mind tends to lock on like a Pitbull and processes the the info cycle, after cycle, after cycle, etc... making modifications each time, like a flowchart (even while asleep).

Same here, no problem :D

I enjoy it too.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Same here, no problem :D

I enjoy it too.

Wow those are great links. Already sent a copy of the PDF to myself. Okay, so we're dealing with PWM devices. What you've been saying makes a lot more sense now.

 

[crimsonecho]

Wow those are great links. Already sent a copy of the PDF to myself. Okay, so we're dealing with PWM devices. What you've been saying makes a lot more sense now.

Yeah the first link (64 pages long) is mostly about bulbs but it gives a good idea about how the dimming works theoretically.

Second one is just an easy strip build but in theory it should be the same deal or at least a very close one. :)

 

[SmithsJunk]

When I was first researching COBs I remember reading something like if either voltage or current (can't remember which one) is adjusted to the drivers it can change the COB's spectrum. Did I read that right?

 

[crimsonecho]

When I was first researching COBs I remember reading something like if either voltage or current (can't remember which one) is adjusted to the drivers it can change their spectrum. Did I read that right?

Yeah there is some info in the first link too. Dimming seems to change the spectrum of the light emitted a bit. Not drastically i think but it seems like it does happen.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Yeah there is some info in the first link too. Dimming seems to change the spectrum of the light emitted a bit. Not drastically i think but it seems like it does happen.

Cool, thanks for verifying that.

 

[crimsonecho]

Cool, thanks for verifying that.

Any time man.
Once you get going i hope you make a thread too. Would be nice to watch the path you take. :)

 

[SmithsJunk]

Alright, now I have a good grasp on modern LED dimming. Since I've more recently been building computers I know the difference between voltage regulation and pulse width modulation. I had to know this because the modern MOBOs, at least on the big X99's I've built, tend to use a mixture of these two types of control on their fans and liquid cooling systems.

A potentiometer varies potential, or in other words, voltage, and is a simple device. Whereas pulse width modulation controls a binary frequency (on/off) to give an effect that mimics true dimming but with far tighter control. It also requires a three or four wire connection vs potential which only requires two. The PWM controller uses a complex system to control modulation vs a simple potential difference.

I love my PWM controlled computer fans because they have a much wider range of speeds.

Okay, I think I'm finally in the game.

 

[SmithsJunk]

Any time man.
Once you get going i hope you make a thread too. Would be nice to watch the path you take. :)

I kind of already have one I let go stale because I didn't have enough $$$ to continue the project.

 

[crimsonecho]

Alright, now I have a good grasp on modern LED dimming. Since I've more recently been building computers I know the difference between voltage regulation and pulse width modulation. I had to know this because the modern MOBOs, at least on the big X99's I've built, tend to use a mixture of these two types of control on their fans and liquid cooling systems.

A potentiometer varies potential, or in other words, voltage, and is a simple device. Whereas pulse width modulation controls a binary frequency (on/off) to give an effect that mimics true dimming but with far tighter control. It also requires a three or four wire connection vs potential which only requires two. The PWM controller uses a complex system to control modulation vs a simple potential difference.

I love my PWM controlled computer fans because they have a much wider range of speeds.

Okay, I think I'm finally in the game.

Yeah exactly, the link works great :)

 

[Smoking Gun]

Well dimmable drivers work like that and you can adjust from a screw hole which houses the dimmer.

Yeah lets not call it potentiometer :) its just my random name for anything that controls current :D

Bit old but makes some good points tho not specifically about dimming cobs or the placing of the dimmer itself. Its mostly about led bulbs.

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/publications/pdfs/ssl/dimming_webcast_12-10-2012.pdf

Also found out you wire it in after the driver. At least in this led strip build the guy does that with that dimmer.

https://www.ecolocityled.com/category/led_tutorials_pwm

Which makes sense as it needs to adjust the current going into the leds and not to the drivers. Drivers won’t work if they don’t get the required wattage (volts and current) but leds will.

Ok, I have been working on building my own light using quantum boards and the process has taught me a lot. Mean Well (I focus on those as they do seem to be the most popular driver brand available) makes a few types of drivers. There are A type drivers and B type drivers, both are dimmable. However the A type drivers are the ones with the potentiometers built in for dimming Andy require a screwdriver to adjust. Apparently they can also be run so they put out a current beyond their designation and can over drive the lighting unit they are powering. The B type drivers are wired for an external potentiometer to adjust the current, but the potentiometer is not included with the driver. The B type drivers also will only provide the wattage they have been designated to provide.

HLG typically provides A type drivers with their lights. This is why the HLG550 is called such though it is typically rated to run at only 480 watt; it can be driven to the maximum potential of the quantum boards (550 Watts) which technically exceeds the wattage rating of the driver. If you were to build the same unit yourself with a B type driver of the same size it would max out at 480 Watts.

This info does answer one question you guys posed earlier and have since answered; where does the dimmer go in the sequence. And as you guys already stated it goes between the light and the driver as we are looking to control the current from the driver not the wall.

As I was deciding weather to buy a QB kit or purchase the parts separately I had to do a lot of research to make sure was purchasing the correct parts and materials. YouTube has certainly been a handy source of information. But it’s really cool what actually goes into LED technology to make it work. And while I have yet to complete the build of my unit I am already thinking about how to improve upon my design and all the possibilities LED lighting offers.

 

[MidwestToker]

The B type drivers are wired for an external potentiometer to adjust the current, but the potentiometer is not included with the driver. The B type drivers also will only provide the wattage they have been designated to provide.

My 240 B driver pulls 268 watts from the wall, figuring driver efficiency loss, I still end up with 253 watts to power the LED's.