Dirty White Boy said:

Boiling coco.....you've gotta be Fucking with me. Lmfao, ok. For the most part there is no wrong mix as long as you don't make it too hot. I have friend who grows with grocery store bought soil adds a little green sand and only uses liquid seaweed and molasses kills it.

Click to expand...

Look at the Coir Forum. They are all talking about boiling their coco, for fear of root aphids. Maybe it's a hydro thing.

If you look a little closer youll notice Im there debating it. Its a nothing thing. You dont need to boil or bake or anything your coco. If your worried there is a plethora of options to combat root aphids.

Thanks. Too freaking hot around here to be boiling or baking anything anyway.

manitoid. said:

Not mine but I've been using it for a while, both supersoil and base with nutes.

LC's Mix (choose a base option and a nute option and combine)

Base soil:
(option 1)
5 parts Canadian Sphagnum Peat or Coir or Pro-Moss
3 parts perlite
2 parts worm castings or mushroom compost or home made compost
2 Tbsp/gal Dolomite Lime

(option 2)
6 parts Pro Mix BX or HP / Sunshine Mix (any flavor from #1 up) / Fox Farm Ocean Forest or Light Warrior
2 parts perlite
2 parts earthworm castings
2 Tbsp/gal Dolomite Lime

Nute mix:
(option 1)
1 tablespoon Blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons Bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
1-tablespoon kelp meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix

(option 2)
1/3C hi N Guano Mexican Bat Guano or Peruvian Seabird Guano (PSG)
1/2C hi P Guano (Jamaican or Indonesian Bat Guano)
1TBS Kelp Meal

Click to expand...

I'm going to try your option 2 mix with Pro Mix soil, what size Perlite should I use Large or small have read on here some say go with the large sized Perlite.

oscar169 said:

I'm going to try your option 2 mix with Pro Mix soil, what size Perlite should I use Large or small have read on here some say go with the large sized Perlite.

Click to expand...

I prefer Coarse or Chunky grade perlite over the fine stuff. It's also beneficial to use 1 part perlite and 1 part pumice instead of 2 parts perlite if that is a possibility for you.

Rice hulls is another killer option, very cheap as well. Adding in some Humus would also really kick it up a notch.

The rice hulls don't lead to mould growth?

I have been reading about organic soil mixes and the one below is what I have put together and have been using.
As I review the NPK ratios and try to determine the ratio of the soil mix I have created, it looks like I should remove the Indonesian bat guano from the mix to get closer to a 3-2-1 ratio.
Soil mix for 20 Gallon container of soil
6 gal mushroom compose
6 gal peat moss
4 gal Perlite
2 gal worm casting 1-0-0 Sub Total: 18 gal
2.5 cups Mexican bat guano 10-1-1
2.5 cups Jamaican bat guano 1-13-1
1.25 cups Indonesian bat guano .5-13-0.2
1.25 cups sea bird guano 10-3-1
2.5 cups green sand 0-0-3
3.25 cups kelp meal 1-0.1-2
2.5 cups alfalfa meal 2-1-2
2.5 cups gypsum
2.5 cups dolomite lime Sub Toyal26.75 cups = 1.7 Gal
Total 19.7 gal
Plus Caps bennies in compost tea water in to moisturize the soil
Let the soil set for 2 – 7 days and then transplant 2” pot cutting to 1 gallon container.
I use the same soil mix when I transplant to 5 or 7 gal containers to flower.

NPK values of soil mix above 25.5-31-10.2
Ratio of above soil mix 2.5- 3- 1
NPK values of soil mix w/o Indonesian Guano 25-18-10
Ratio of revised soil mix 2.5 – 1.8 – 1

My Questions:
Is this the correct way to determine the NPK values of your soil mix as I have read in other threads?
Does this look like a good soil mix?
Do I want an NPK ratio of 3-2-1?
Shoud I remove the Indonesian Gauno to get the NPK ratio closer to 3-2-1 and then use the Indonesian Gauno in a tea?

^^^ dont even worry about npks when making your own soil and growing organically. npk ratios are something the hydro industry made up and all the hydro people bug out on.

they will get everything from the soil when they need it as long as you put all the appropriate stuff in there.. but if you do wanna worry about npk it looks like you got it down real good haha

similar to ph. when growing organically we dont even have to think about ph and npk and all that stuff.. just make sure you got some good meals in the soil with ewc/ compost and all the good stuff and they will get all the nitrogen and phosphorous and everything they need.

i just upped the ratios in my new soil mix and made it a lot hotter, i really wanna see the difference it makes. i put a lot more fish bone meal, alfalfa meal, all purpose fertilizer, etc next step i gotta start ordering EWC off the net and stop using the shitty ones from the stores and nurseries. and in the long run make my own.

EDIT: oh yeah and i would cut out the 6 gal of mushroom compost and replace with 2 gal of regular compost. 6 gal along with 2 gal EWC makes it more then half compost. u want the peat moss to be the majority and then compost and perlite. also replace all those guanos with bone meal or fish bone meal and blood meal. and if you can source oyster shells or crab shells replace the dolomite lime with them.. if not the dolomite lime is fine. personally i like a 60/40 or 70/30 mix of peat moss and coco but i see most people just use the peat moss so thats fine. other then that you look good. and this is just my opionion of course.

oh and add an all purpose fertilizer from epsoma, dr earth, fox farm, down to earth, organicare, whatever, theyre all the same and the npk ratios are like 5-5-5 or 4-4-4. a cup or two per cubic foot.

my new soil mix

3.8 cf peat moss ($17)
a coco brick which i think breaks down to 2 cf ($5)
1 cf EWC ($10)
1 cf compost (free or $5)
1 cf alaskan humus ($10)
3 or 4 cf pumice ($12)

4 cups fox farm all purpose 5-5-5
4 cups organicare pure 6-6-6
4 cups organicare pure bloom
12 cups alfalfa meal
12 cups fish bone meal
12 cups humic acid ore
10 cups oyster shells
8 cups kelp meal
8 cups blood meal
6 cups soft rock phosphate/ rock phosphate
6 cups azomite
6 cups garden lime

also added 10 cups feather meal, 6 cups bulb food, and 6 cups greensand but gonna cut those out once i run out and hopefully add 10 cups neem seed meal once i order it.

i got this one cooking.. my last one was very similar to this one and is doing awesome, i just went light on the amendments so i went a little stronger on them this time to see if they can handle it. i know a lot of these ogs and chems im growing can handle it and want more so we'll see. i wanna eventually give em as much as i can without burning them and see if it helps or not. im constantly making soil i need some more kiddie pools!!

slausongardens said:

my new soil mix

3.8 cf peat moss ($17)
a coco brick which i think breaks down to 2 cf ($5)
1 cf EWC ($10)
1 cf compost (free or $5)
1 cf alaskan humus ($10)
3 or 4 cf pumice ($12)

4 cups fox farm all purpose 5-5-5
4 cups organicare pure 6-6-6
4 cups organicare pure bloom
12 cups alfalfa meal
12 cups fish bone meal
12 cups humic acid ore
10 cups oyster shells
8 cups kelp meal
8 cups blood meal
6 cups soft rock phosphate/ rock phosphate
6 cups azomite
6 cups garden lime

also added 10 cups feather meal, 6 cups bulb food, and 6 cups greensand but gonna cut those out once i run out and hopefully add 10 cups neem seed meal once i order it.

i got this one cooking.. my last one was very similar to this one and is doing awesome, i just went light on the amendments so i went a little stronger on them this time to see if they can handle it. i know a lot of these ogs and chems im growing can handle it and want more so we'll see. i wanna eventually give em as much as i can without burning them and see if it helps or not. im constantly making soil i need some more kiddie pools!!

Click to expand...

better invest in a cheap concrete mixer. look for 1 at habor freight. probably around 100$ but well worth it if youre mixing that much soil.

I have been using the super soil idea for over three years, and I like the results.
Here are two ongoing threads that attempt to address some of my confusion.
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/six-super-soil-variants-run-side-by-side.63549/
https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/how-valuable-is-my-tea-in-super-soil.63548/
These two trials are a step in trying to put the word "simple" into super soil.
Substitutions are welcome and areas where I can reduce quantities of interest.
Listing things that 'can' be added is no help without a reduction or removal elsewhere.
Your participation is encouraged.

slausongardens said:

yeah i dont think ill ever buy a soil from fox farm again. too many bad experiences. although i still use their all purpose peace of mind fertilizer product with good results.. but i dont even like supporting them, might change that one out too hahaa.

thats why i dont like moonshine mans soil mix. looks like he was paid by fox farm to make that soil mix and promote it. one of the main reasons of making your own soil is to save money and his soil mix costs over $100. its actually not even really a soil mix. its just combining different soils haha. u can start from scratch with peat moss, ewc, compost, perlite and some amendments for about $6 a cubic foot. and i would think it would be better then anything fox farm has.

Click to expand...

I do not dispute the problems with FFOF but I don't like Roots Org. I use the FFOF at a 1:1 with Pro Advanced for clones, with some additions, then go to a 2:1 when I pot up. I know it's more work but I have seen noticeably healthier plants when potting up. I don't think my clones like going straight into a 3 gallon S.Pot. I go into a 1 gallon smart pot and then up to 3 or 5. I use CAP bennies from cut and sticking clones through veg and flower. No pests or fungus or mold.

Wow,those are some shopping lists,lol!!! Mine veg and flowering mixes are:

My veg medium is: (per gallon)
3 parts Pro-Mix
1 part perlite
1 part earthworm castings
1 TBS blood meal
1 TBS (fine) dolomite lime

My flowering medium is: (per gallon)
3 parts Pro-Mix
1 part perlite
1 part earthworm castings
1 tsp bone meal
1 tsp seabird guano
1 tsp bat guano
1 TBS (fine) dolomite lime

moo.cow mix is my mix and it's just basic dollar general soil but the key is to have that constant pH level at 5.5/6.0 you have to let it grow tomato's in it the 1st year in a 1foot by 1foot by 6inch high wooden box's or bigger box's your choosing,put it straight on the ground,then 2nd year pull that soil off the ground and the key is make sure you the 1st year that your tomato's are in a place where they have worm's where them worm's get in that 1st year's soil ,and put your soil in a bucket and you have moocow super dupper 6.0 mix

moo.cow said:

moo.cow mix is my mix and it's just basic dollar general soil but the key is to have that constant pH level at 5.5/6.0 you have to let it grow tomato's in it the 1st year in a 1foot by 1foot by 6inch high wooden box's or bigger box's your choosing,put it straight on the ground,then 2nd year pull that soil off the ground and the key is make sure you the 1st year that your tomato's are in a place where they have worm's where them worm's get in that 1st year's soil ,and put your soil in a bucket and you have moocow super dupper 6.0 mix

Click to expand...

I wonder, just thinking aloud, well typing aloud, that you are actually getting better results because you are getting a heavy myco inoculation of the tomato roots plus a great bacteria.........protest soil web completed and working. When you add your own from propagule or spore into pasteurized soil (many are) and there are so many variables that you end up with a plant that has a lighter inoculation and the growth frame is (relatively) time limiting. You basically only having three to four weeks for mycos to become established. I know that some greenhouse experiments show positive results I just wonder if it's more an action of protection than actual symbioses. I mean in the wild it takes a year for a lawn to become fully inoculated and working. These companies quote research but it's lab results, not field results. Plus, Dr. Ingham is not all the expert people make her out to be. The probably foremost expert just died. Dr Joseph Latey from University of California Irvine. Anyway, I am not saying that mycos are not beneficial in cannabis pot growth, just actual benefits realized vs full potential.

I now use roots from my previous grow, someone taught me how to harvest spores, but you still need to add Caps, well, you need to add in some new spores to help stimulate the old ones out of dormancy. Also, it would imo be stupid not to get caps, the others are diluted mixes from Premier and even worse, like in the case of one company they are buying from Premier, marketing it under one name, then diluting the excess and marketing again to the primarily the cannabis industry. I plan on making a long post here soon on what I found out about all the hucksterism that goes on in beneficials. If you don't order from Cap you might as well just use some local field soil. What you buy in the hydrostore is useless. What little benefit you get is usually from enzymes, not live bacteria.

Personally, I use the root ball, harvest the spores and roots, add into my soil before time and.....well the results are incredible. I do not have to buy anything now but three sugars, hi brix, Organic Gem fish nutes and peat moss and FFOF and EWC. No blood meal, no bat crap. I get the same if not more yield now.

People don't realize that Mycorrhizae form different types of tubes/hyphae/vesicles and until all this is in place they really can't start doing real work. Just my take on what I have read. Complicated crap and boring sometimes. But no sense in applying it if your not going to utilize it. I think people are buying the brands in hydro stores, see some white roots from simple enzyme cleaning and stimulation and assume it's "real" or "live".

These products have been tested and they are crap. If anything they are just getting trichoderma and a the basic soil microbes established and in the pasteurized bagged soil that is out there they do get a benefit, but the are getting nothing compared to what you can do with a purchase of Caps, or even just what you can harvest out of your local pastureland and forest. If you live near that I mean.

yea you get the idea

new simplified mix im gonna try for this new grow im working on.

3.8 cf peat moss
a coco brick which i think breaks down to 2 cf
1.5 cf EWC
1.5 cf compost
3 or 4 cf pumice/perlite
5 lbs glacial rock dust

12 cups dr earth all purpose feed 6-6-6
12 cups alfalfa meal
12 cups fish bone meal
8 cups oyster shells
8 cups kelp meal
8 cups blood meal
6 cups garden lime

i was wrong to say it was something the hydro industry made up.

it does matter in making soils obviously but what i meant was as long as you use the right stuff in the correct ratios like these recipes provide you don't have to worry about it. the plants will get what they need and what they want from the soil. unlike force feeding them nutes where you have no choice but to have to make sure every things perfect including npks and ph.

and as far as ph, i use oyster shells lol.

and i don't use guanos.

cannakis said:

yeah i like your seedling mix... I Am just using ProMix Mycho for my seedlings, perfect pH, No burns At All, everything pops up Beautifully. Most of those other soils, and Especially Fox Farm products in my opinion, suck and are Way to fucking Hot.!

Click to expand...

Boy did I ever fail when I used Promix. My friend uses it and his plants come out fantastic. I try the same method and nothing but slow growth and yellow leaves. Finally I gave up on it after 3 attempts. I have no idea what I was doing wrong. The only difference was he used his local water source and I used mine but that's enough of a difference to make a difference.