Advantage of using old-school HPS/MH over LED

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PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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Yup, and I'm agreeing with your agreement dammit!

J/K I was trying to get back on track with your original question - why HPS. For budget conscious buyers, you have more spectrum options with HID lighting than budget LED. Spectrum can assist in getting the best out of your plants if you know how to use it.
You can blame me for getting off track I smoke too much and I've a hard time staying on task....One thought leads to another then look a shinny bobble.........
 
growsince79

growsince79

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The answer to this question has changed monthly since ive been here and will continue to change.

What led well provide the same weight as a 1000w HPS in a c02 sealed room? How much will I have to spend, and will it be outdated before it pays itself off.

I can run a 1000w hps for 5 years for 250 bucks in equipment. Bulbs are 20 per and setup is 170 bucks.


I get fox tailing due to environmental issues but id say my blue dream buds couldn't have been any denser. Sure they could have been bigger lol and looked better. But once it broke up into dust almost. Idk how the shit grew so tight.

My thing with alot of trials is how they were done. Like I could say increasing a plants metabolism can also make them denser, via pgr, co2 or even rzt.

If i were in search of tighter buds and on a budget as most new growers are, id have them buy a co2 kit and dehui instead of spending the extra money on a light. Cause from my point of view, a light that can produce alot of high quality is all thats needed for beginners. Like ill upgrade to Leds. . but atm with all the tents im popping its far cheaper to just run hid. Plus my other building doesnt have heat so in the winter that will help, even thought it wasnt enough heat. Pretty hard to heat a 100x33 30ft tall stone building with his lol. .

I lose the grams per kw argument im quite positive lol. . I tried to do my math. . and wow. . its bad. This sour diesel i grew was quite heavy so i dunno. . I know its the biggest plant ive ever grown so far.

Heres some hps hydro porn lol. Im gonna trim that plant perfectly on the stems and get a pic of it outside. I wish i could test for terps cause i know its hitting high in the flavor department.
What g/sqft are you getting using co2?
 
growsince79

growsince79

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poundage is but one metric in the hundreds that are cannabis. It's really only relevant if you are selling it. Things like cannabinoid content are much more important across the board regardless of your intended use, IMO.

Talking about yield as if it is the most important aspect of a grow is everywhere on this and other forums. I guess everybody but me and @PipeCarver are selling it? Oh and I'm fat too, so I'm triggered by the whole weight thing. (in case you don't know me, everything can be made into humor. I don't actually get triggered unless you call me Karen.)
I don't sell, I weigh mine to stay under the limit and compare plants for selection; comparing densities and what not. I just hit 60g/qt loose with acid dog1. Densest bud I ever made; most is 45-50.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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What g/sqft are you getting using co2?
Havnt completed a full grow with it yet. This mimosa evo i transplanted will be the first to go full flower in my newly sealed co2 room. Before c02 it is about a lb per 4x4 every 6-7weeks regardless if its one or 4 plants. My vev is around 4 to 6 weeks, 6 plants under a 250w light. This plant i just harvested should get me more than an lb from the looks of it. Very solid buds. Just foxtailed heavily. . i have never dialed in my vpd either. . still no ppfd meter. I think my weight will be going up as months go on since i have a 50 pint per day dehui and 12000btu ac unit. . ive only had a actual sealed room for 2 weeks now which is why i say my weight should go up.
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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Oh wow.

Are you messing with your avatar? I was just getting used to a black cat.
Lol ya, that was our new boy Dusk, poor little guy had been in pain since birth according to the vet, at 1 yr old with a bad case of mites, eating away at his ears. its taken a month but he seems clear of them now. Still on oral meds but we've stopped squirting goo into his ears.....I hated it, he hated it, and it makes him distrusts us, although he's now having fun playing with our other cats, he couldn't before, too much of his brain was on the pain in his head.

He'll come back, as long as there's no more ear medication & massaging it into his ear canal. Like rubbing an open wound in your head...not fun..for either of us, I have a number of wounds to prove it. My chest & stomach look like I've done battle with something wild.

Oh and I was bored for a bit today so I was on here & smoked,read,smoked,read ect then during a break in smoking I thought pot site not cat site time for a change...I don't belong to cat sites but they probably wouldn't appreciate a pot plant / bud as an icon so....when in Rome as they say.....
 
growsince79

growsince79

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Havnt completed a full grow with it yet. This mimosa evo i transplanted will be the first to go full flower in my newly sealed co2 room. Before c02 it is about a lb per 4x4 every 6-7weeks regardless if its one or 4 plants. My vev is around 4 to 6 weeks, 6 plants under a 250w light. This plant i just harvested should get me more than an lb from the looks of it. Very solid buds. Just foxtailed heavily. . i have never dialed in my vpd either. . still no ppfd meter. I think my weight will be going up as months go on since i have a 50 pint per day dehui and 12000btu ac unit. . ive only had a actual sealed room for 2 weeks now which is why i say my weight should go up.
IMO if you aren't getting 2oz/sqft without co2, you will just be wasting $$ on co2. You need to get the room right... Lots of better things you can do to get there. Turn off the dehumidifier and exhaust outside; no reason you should want or need co2.
 
Madmax

Madmax

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poundage is but one metric in the hundreds that are cannabis. It's really only relevant if you are selling it. Things like cannabinoid content are much more important across the board regardless of your intended use, IMO.

Talking about yield as if it is the most important aspect of a grow is everywhere on this and other forums. I guess everybody but me and @PipeCarver are selling it? Oh and I'm fat too, so I'm triggered by the whole weight thing. (in case you don't know me, everything can be made into humor. I don't actually get triggered unless you call me Karen.)
You said it .😉.and second most important is turn around times ..
 
Madmax

Madmax

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My equipment does help..like big time.
Images 2
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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IMO if you aren't getting 2oz/sqft without co2, you will just be wasting $$ on co2. You need to get the room right... Lots of better things you can do to get there. Turn off the dehumidifier and exhaust outside; no reason you should want or need co2.
So i ran no co2 for a year or more and im quite sure my issues have always been high humidity except for winter. My winter buds had looked the best. Perhaps its not i just know its generally around 60rh outside. I live in a valley surrounded by trees and when it rains. . well i had bud rot at one point. The main reason i went sealed is to bring my humidity down.

Like i have to complete a few sealed room grows since i built it ill. I mean my issues have to be either too much light or too much humidity. Im confident enough to say my next purchase will be a fancy led. I have to do some side by side comparisons anyways.

I cant bring myself to go back to vented rooms just yet. So far the co2 is pretty cheap. .lasts about 3 weeks for 25 bucks. Would last longer but the room isnt sealed perfectly.
 
ninjadip

ninjadip

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HPS is extremely cheap, easy to use and plants love it. A single 150w lamp @ $70usd can make enough for most smokers to never run dry.
for $100 you can get a 100-125 watt LED that is equivalent to near 1 300-400 watt HID.
Not sure how HID is cheaper. LED isn't expensive anymore...
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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You said it .😉.and second most important is turn around times ..
Hey, I'm late to this conversation's reply but I don't get turn around times. It takes 2+ months to finish flowering and unless you stagger your plants and flip 1 a week it takes 2 + months to clear the flower room out. During that time any clones that have been taken are 2 months old and ready to be flipped....if you flip earlier where do they go with a full flower room. Even if you flip the first plants in a month they still take 2+ to finish....how can you make it any faster?.....If you can get a full harvest every 2+ months what is this turn around time about?.........ooooops Fkin Brain flash...1 tent 1 light.......ah......just ignore......took me to long to write to delete...lol
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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for $100 you can get a 100-125 watt LED that is equivalent to near 1 300-400 watt HID.
Not sure how HID is cheaper. LED isn't expensive anymore...
I have a tsl2000 250w mars hydro led full spectrum. I have two plants flowering under it in a 4x4. Next to it I have one plant in a 4x4 flowering under a 750w hps. I did get quite a bit off that led when i flowered under it. Regardless. . you think ill get the same yield?
 
ninjadip

ninjadip

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I have a tsl2000 250w mars hydro led full spectrum. I have two plants flowering under it in a 4x4. Next to it I have one plant in a 4x4 flowering under a 750w hps. I did get quite a bit off that led when i flowered under it. Regardless. . you think ill get the same yield?
too many factors come in to play to make a real control group, or to say that everything is the same except the lighting. I am just saying that if heat isn't needed in a room/tent that LEDs offer an often more affordable alternative than HIDs. Of course there are other factors, spectrum analysis, zone coverage, zone hot-spots, far-red coverage, that vary from LED to LED. There are just multitudes of variables. Watt per watt LED is much more efficient and cheaper, but yes there are other factors to consider when taking total yield into account.

IMO if i were to do a scientific comparison, I would make a custom quantum LED board that matches the HPS spectrum as close as possible, it's zone coverage, PAR output, etc... and then a better comparison could be made.
 
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Shaded_One

Shaded_One

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IMO if i were to do a scientific comparison, I would make a custom quantum LED board that matches the HPS spectrum as close as possible, it's zone coverage, PAR output, etc... and then a better comparison could be made.

...then what's the point? You're reducing/limiting the LED when you alter the spectrum. There's a reason why we grow with full spectrum LEDs. That's not scientific at all.

HPS is cheaper up front cost and provides the benefit of radiant heat
LED wins in every other metric
 
PipeCarver

PipeCarver

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too many factors come in to play to make a real control group, or to say that everything is the same except the lighting. I am just saying that if heat isn't needed in a room/tent that LEDs offer an often more affordable alternative than HIDs. Of course there are other factors, spectrum analysis, zone coverage, zone hot-spots, far-red coverage, that vary from LED to LED. There are just multitudes of variables. Watt per watt LED is much more efficient and cheaper, but yes there are other factors to consider when taking total yield into account.

IMO if i were to do a scientific comparison, I would make a custom quantum LED board that matches the HPS spectrum as close as possible, it's zone coverage, PAR output, etc... and then a better comparison could be made.
I don't know if this helps but I had 3 Bubble Bomb girls same age 2 I put under my 1000w hps to flower and the other under a new Spiderfarmer 300w SE3000. I harvested them at the same time & I got more off the 1 under the led than I did off a single plant under the hps.......I bought another SE3000 after that. The buds were harder and bigger...I was sold......Problem is the heat, there's not enough heat generated by the led lights to keep my spaces warm enough so adding heat deletes any elect savings
 
growsince79

growsince79

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for $100 you can get a 100-125 watt LED that is equivalent to near 1 300-400 watt HID.
Not sure how HID is cheaper. LED isn't expensive anymore...
100w led is no match for 400w hps. It will make as much as a 150w hps. I use both.
 
Cashmeh

Cashmeh

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100w led is no match for 400w hps. It will make as much as a 150w hps. I use both.
Im thinking my tsl 250w and my 1000w HPS would work great together. I can even turn the hps down to 600w setting. Thing is, my biggest tent is a 4x4x6.5 and im sure 850w is to much. Like i know 1000w of hps in that tent is way to much. The 750w setting i am running now seems to be creating less issues. Wondering if I should turn it down to 600w and add the tsl? I guess you do about 50/50 led HPS so id be having more red than you at the 600w. .i dunno what to do lol
 
strider26554

strider26554

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I'm very curious as to why current growers use old-school light tech that is allegedly much more inefficient than LEDs.
Is it purely based on spectrum?

Can anyone give me some insight?
I am an old school grower, I have been growing sin semilla since it became popular during the late seventies and early eighties. The reason i prefer the old metal halide and hss systems is purely a case of doing what i know best. I am fully open to new tech and what the plants like taking precedence. I have grown under led (and quality leds ) I might add and there seems to be certain strains that prefer one or the other. Led lighting can be tricky to get just right, and can easily cause issues for strains of weed that dont like intense light. All that being said, the strain i grow seems to do ok under led, but to really max out the qualities that im looking for, such as bud density, buds size and speed of maturity, I find that hps, and particularly CMH do the best for me. as far as cost. its a trade off, either initial high investment/ low running cost or low investment/ high operating cost. Also in consideration for me (and i do take this part seriously) is the environmental aspect. I cannot consider myself to be a good steward of this planet without realizing that my hobbies are affecting the planet, with that being said i will continue to use as much free outdoor sun as i can, be frugal with my use of energy guzzling hpos and metal halide systems, and continue to explore the use of leds as low impact alternative for future grows.
 
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