Aero v. Drip Lines with NO medium

[eyeswideopen]

I was thinking about the benefits of aero v. DD's buckets and wondering what the advantage is to the large 10 inch net pots full of coco or whatever and a drip line, rather than running a smaller net pot with no medium, a neoprene collar, and aero misters just below the lid.

First I figured the smaller net pot would not be able to handle the large trees, but if you're caging them anyways it should be fine. Really you could run any size net pot, and even cut the bottom off since there'd be no medium - unrestricted root growth. The aero sprayers could run off of a 1/2 inch PVC line in a hexagon or octagon 12" around the center of the net pot, or you could build them right up against the sides of the tough box all the way around with a couple down the middle. And still have all the other attributes of the RDWC that make up the MPB's.

Seems like the best of both worlds - unrestricted rapid root growth early on, and the RDWC throughout.

Please let me know your thoughts on the advantages of the large buckets with medium and drip lines v. what I'm suggesting. I'd really like to know before I start building. I may build one aero MPB test bucket either way.

 

[Widowmaker]

Sounds interesting to me, have you tried it?
:icon_spin:

 

[nor cali farmer]

lets us know how it works

 

[KING_KONG_KOLAS]

Bro I have been pondering the same concept..
clogged sprayers would be the only problem I think..
Give it a go bro Im all eyes..

 

[antimatter]

Id still be concerned about support but it has been done, not with trees as large but full mediumless dwc has been done no aero.

Official Root Porn Thread
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31574&highlight=root+porn

 

[Dirty White Boy]

You need the pot to help support the huge ass plants. Stuff would fall right over with just a little collar.

 

[antimatter]

You need the pot to help support the huge ass plants. Stuff would fall right over with just a little collar.

All large plants need support, but you need a small netpot of some sort for the collar to sit in, simply just using a colar or pool noodle would definitely cause the plants to wanna go sideways. Also any plants that have one side much larger then the other are much more inclined to fall over into the light. If each sides equal size and the plant is caged properly it won't fall over, just gotta get those branches through the caging for support.

 

[Dirty White Boy]

Oh yea, your right on, i stand corrected. :nod

 

[OregonMeds]

You can use just a netpot and collar but media supports better growth especially early on.

You are better off using a netpot with media in it no matter what the media is. You will get faster growth with media I don't recall the details of why but something to do with how the plant feeds.

Even completely inert things you'd never think of like chopped up used tires or glass marbles, plastic shavings, pallet strapping scraps. It really doesn't matter what as long as it's clean and doesn't poison the plant or the water.

The more surface area and least volume the media takes the better, glass marbles would be the worst with low surface area and high volume, plastic shavings the best with high surface area and tons of air space/low volume.

 

[CelticEBE]

eyeswideopen

Ever since I came to the Farm and saw DD's trees I have been thinking the same thing. Can trees be done in aero. Here is a link to a journal with a guy doing that very thing.

 

[antimatter]

You can use just a netpot and collar but media supports better growth especially early on.

You are better off using a netpot with media in it no matter what the media is. You will get faster growth with media I don't recall the details of why but something to do with how the plant feeds.

Even completely inert things you'd never think of like chopped up used tires or glass marbles, plastic shavings, pallet strapping scraps. It really doesn't matter what as long as it's clean and doesn't poison the plant or the water.

The more surface area and least volume the media takes the better, glass marbles would be the worst with low surface area and high volume, plastic shavings the best with high surface area and tons of air space/low volume.

I can't recall anyone who has ever done a medium vs no medium grow, I can see problems with moving from veg to flower with no medium but if a 15-20g container had a cage on it, I can see it being manageable.

It Sounds fantastic not having to buy any hydroton, it would be nice and clean and you would save money but really what would the difference be? veg plant to 3 feet and flower with medium vs veg to 3 feet then flower with no medium both plants supported. ? corporate hydroponic hydroton conspiracy lol? I have no idea, someones gonna have to do a side by side test 3x over to show what the actual difference is. Roots in an Oxygen rich nutrient solution vs Roots in a top drip hydroton bucket.

 

[Widowmaker]

We need root cams, 24/7 root porn on-demand.....
:icon_spin:

 

[red southwest]

hi i have a aeroponics system with one purple kush clay pellets as medium it works good so far i have sum pics posted its 22in more pics soon

 

[OregonMeds]

The feeding rates of aero and dwc are very different, you would need two reservoirs with different concentrations of nutrients if you wanted to do actual high pressure or air atomized high efficiency aeroponics up top with a dwc base or you'd be burning the roots up top while underfeeding down below or vice versa.

Drip and dwc feeding rates are the same. Maybe you could do it as long as you're nowhere near an efficient droplet size so the plant can't take up so much nutrients from the aero part, but then you'd need to spend some time experimenting and expect some failures.

Straight aero trees is an excellent idea, something I've been looking into for a while, just not common.

 

[swisscheese]

I might try it on a plant instead of a top drip. I'll do 4 regular and one aero in the mpbs unless I forget about it.

 

[nucleotide]

Right now, I've got an MPB system with 5 inch net pots in it.
I was thinking the same thing, so I figured that smaller net pots might have an advantage so long as there is support for the plants. Right now, I've got some pythium issues because I slacked on the chiller (got one now), so it'll be a bit before I can make an honest evaluation.

 

[CannaColorado]

The feeding rates of aero and dwc are very different, you would need two reservoirs with different concentrations of nutrients if you wanted to do actual high pressure or air atomized high efficiency aeroponics up top with a dwc base or you'd be burning the roots up top while underfeeding down below or vice versa.

Drip and dwc feeding rates are the same.

Tats what i was thinkin, atomized droplets are super available.

I was also wondering how much splashage comes off the HI Blos and 12" airstones people are using? I know the big advantage in my old DWC buckets was that the airstone splashed fresh nutes over my rutes constantly cause an NFT, is this created in the MPBs in the same fashion with such a big air pump like a HIBLO.

 

[CannaColorado]

Right now, I've got an MPB system with 5 inch net pots in it.
I was thinking the same thing, so I figured that smaller net pots might have an advantage so long as there is support for the plants. Right now, I've got some pythium issues because I slacked on the chiller (got one now), so it'll be a bit before I can make an honest evaluation.

have you tried Physan 20? If your in CO the orchid store on broadway stocks it.

 

[Giddeon]

my concern is what if your power goes out unexpectedly? aero plants die pretty quick?....

 

[OregonMeds]

Tats what i was thinkin, atomized droplets are super available.

I was also wondering how much splashage comes off the HI Blos and 12" airstones people are using? I know the big advantage in my old DWC buckets was that the airstone splashed fresh nutes over my rutes constantly cause an NFT, is this created in the MPBs in the same fashion with such a big air pump like a HIBLO.

No they aren't giving enough air to get action like a krusty bucket or anything, to where roots fill the space above the water line. Basically crude air atomized aeroponics. Some have enough action to get water up to the netpot in small amounts and that's about it, not enough to rely on.


You'd have to have a regenerative blower if you want that kind of action on that many bins. These size pumps dd uses would give that to a single bin, maybe two but just maybe.

If you are going to play with aeroponics I came to the conclusion long ago it should be either aero or dwc. I've talked with some of the best on doing a hybrid and it boils down to this:

HP Aero, (true aeroponics or whatever you want to call it) kicks dwc's ass, sorry but true, and if you're going to set up for THAT you might as well do it fully aero.

However it's not as easy and there's more involved in setting it up to be ok with power outages. (accumulator tanks and battery back ups)

However don't get me wrong, if you just want to try media free and do a very crude inefficient droplet size aero up top it might work ok, you'd just have to try it and compare side by side with dd's way.