'Sour Diesel' aka ECSD came from an accidental cross of ('91 Chemdog x Mass Super Skunk/NL)x DNL after the DNL hermed and seeded the room. The DNL's lineage is NL/Shiva x Hawaiian.
• Original Diesel' (also known as Diesel #1, Headband, Daywrecker Diesel, Underdawg) came from a cross of '91 Chemdog x (Mass Super Skunk x Sensi's Northern Lights) done by a guy known as ‘weasel’. if you read the lineage it looks like ajs cut was the 1st plus a planed cross. since the chem and mass super skunk were clone onlies, it looks like they used a sensi nl male and crossed it to the super skunk. then took a male outa this one and crossed it to the 91 Chemdog. and while they were growing this cut out the dnl hermied and seeded the room and those seeds created ecsd. AJ's cut if it is in fact original diesel = Chemdog 91 x (mass super skunk x nl)
ECSD = AJ's cut x DNL
DNL = Shiva/NL X Hawaiian
this is the only info most of us have so this is all we know
Dude...I can't stand to see you chase your tail anymore. AJ's Sour D cut IS just that..........SOUR D. All the other ones aka ECSD....Sour D...are names of the same thing, the only reason that they have different names are because they are different cuts of the same seed stock...........get it? (or hybrids) at the top of the heap is AJ's the best known cut. I don't think the AJ's looks like the ECSD I have grown in the past..mine was more sativa (hawiian) with huge tops not round. A lot of Sour D has been brought into the game from people seeding one or more of the phenos that was let out originally...the AJ cut being the rarest to be found once the original seed stock left NYC and popped up in Cali leaving behind herm seeds back East for people to bread with.
Ya got to understand the name game and that not all the cuts were equal coming from the pollination from the DNL. Unless some top secret breeding from the Chem was done while no-one was looking in attempts to make the PERFECT Sour D happened.lol If you think that's too complicated..........I got some Sour OG Daywrecker.lol
Seriously...don't get caught up in the name game...if you want the best Sour D...find AJ's cut, or do like the rest of us and buy/grow everything with a Sour D nametag spending years trying to find the right cut. PS...I think the greatest gift going is that good Chem cuts are back in the hands of responsible breeders and also the players who found the Chem. How wicked is it gonna get?
true, and i fully agree but i digress you see this is hard for me cause i have been told in this thread that it has no mss. i'll go back and reread. and for it to be a sister to ecsd that can't be true.....
What are the genetics of the AJ cut? JJ-nyc says thers no MSS SS in it...
this me qouting ECO saying
JJ-nyc says thers no MSS SS in it.
i'll either find out if that is his quote or it will be made appearent....
Thanks but more importantly, i get that you are trying to help me and i think it starts to frustraight, so additional thanks for your patience. however, i still want as close to facts as possible. as these x's are going to be back x'ed into as many of the original moms i can and also extensive out x's made to them/from them. all for the med community and many if not most for FREE. in addition the matter matters to me. so i do appreciate all your help and insight. it's importance will play out to the best possible outcome i promise. your keystokes are not in vain!!!
these are the stories i have already, so repeating them without addition just keeps me staring after my proverbial tail: (thank you Capo). , but i will cut and paste it so those who take time to answer will see only what i have read. i know i'm beeing a zealot, but for good reason. here it goes:
For my peeps who do there homework before clone hunting
Brief background:
At a Grateful Dead show at Deer Creek Amphitheatre, 'joebrand' (aka 'wonkanobe') and 'pbud' met 'chemdog' and sold him an ounce of very high quality weed for $500. joe and chemdog exchanged numbers and they later arranged for two ounces to be shipped to chemdog on the east coast. According to chemdog, one ounce was seedless and the other had 13 seeds.
In ’91, chemdog popped the first 4 seeds. From these seeds, one male was found and disposed of (chemdog was young, you can’t blame him). The 3 females were labeled ‘Chemdog’ (now ’91 Chemdog), ‘Chemdog a’ (now Chemdog’s sister), and ‘Chemdog b’. In '01, chemdog and his girlfriend attempted to germ 3 more seeds, labeled ‘c’, ‘d’, and ‘e’. the ‘e’ seed never germinated, ‘c’ turned out to be junk (according to chemdog), and Chemdog ‘d’ was the keeper. In '06, 'chemdog' and 'joebrand' reunited and joe was given 4 of the last 6 beans: Chemdog phenos 1-4, '4' being the chosen keeper. Joe thought the '4' was the best representation of the original and thus dubbed it the 'reunion pheno'. Chemdog still has two seeds left in his stash.
Chemdog Crosses:
• 'OG Kush' (the original cut) came from an s1 from in a bag of '91 Chemdog in the Lake Tahoe area in 1996.
• 'Sour Diesel' aka ECSD came from an accidental cross of ('91 Chemdog x Mass Super Skunk/NL)x DNL after the DNL hermed and seeded the room. The DNL's lineage is NL/Shiva x Hawaiian.
• Original Diesel' (also known as Diesel #1, Headband, Daywrecker Diesel, Underdawg) came from a cross of '91 Chemdog x (Mass Super Skunk x Sensi's Northern Lights) done by a guy known as ‘weasel’.
• 'chemdog' and friends made several crosses that are held closely by a small group of friends and acquaintances. Among them are:
1. Super Snowdog (Bubble Chem x [Super skunk x Oregon Sno])
2. Giesel (Chemdog D x Mass Super Skunk)
3. Bubble Chem (Chemdog’s Sister x Sag's Bubbleberry)
4. Dawg Daze aka ChemHaze (Chemdog D x ’93 Sensi's NL#5/Haze)
5. Chemdog D x Pbud (another old-school Colorado strain)
JJ-NYC has been working on a Chemdog D-based seed line for several years now. He started by crossing Chemdog D to Sensi's Afghani after thoroughly testing both Sensi's Afghani and Sensi's Hindu Kush to determine which was more stable and would be better for the initial cross. JJ then did a backcross, known as "Double Dawg." Several phenos of this circulate and several people still have beans. JJ's latest work to the line is a second backcross known as "Tres Dawg" which is just starting to get tested.
Rezdog of Reservoir Seeds recently released several Chemdog crosses as part of his 'Trinity' charity auctions. The crosses included Chemdog D x Sensi's Hindu Kush and Snowdog x Sensi's Hindu Kush, Chemdog D x Sour Diesel IBL, Snowdog x Sour Diesel IBL, ChemHaze x Sour Diesel IBL and Giesel x Sour Diesel IBL.
info aquired by High&Lonesome
________________________________________
Last edited by dafinestsniper; 09-20-2008 at 12:36 PM.
And then I ohgee found this:
from quite a few different sources.......................
Originally posted by JJ-NYC
Let me give everyone a history lesson about the Diesel. The Chem Dawg was a unknown indica strain (Kush, HP, or NL?) old school, from Colorado. (Does anyone know what strain or its origin?)This is the original NYC DIESEL. Two friends met on Dead tour. A pound of Chem was mailed to Mass. around 93-94.Seeds were found and started. My friend met Mass.G. at Phish tour 93-94. Clones of the Chem Dawg and Super Skunk made their way to NYC. With no male, The Weasel crossed a Sensi NL male with the Super Skunk. Took a male and crossed it with the Chem Dawg creating the Underdawg Diesel or (Diesel no.1, Headband Diesel, or Daywrecker Diesel). Another strain in his room the DNL NL/Shiva(RFK)/Hawaiian cross) self seeded the Under Dawg a seed was grown and The Sour Diesel was created, no planned breeding, it just happened. This is the Diesel gospel. Everything else is BS including soma (who the fuck is soma?) I challenge anyone who questions this fact, for I have been involved with the Diesel since it came to NYC.
Originally posted by ThaDocta
soma got his diesel from a bagseed from a buddy from NYC or at least that’s how soma described it. his diesel could be an s1 of original diesel, underdawg, sour d, or any other b/c it sounds like all of them in nyc gets mixed up pretty easily (due to similar heritage)
unless you’re really in the loop and have access to all of them and know heritage. that leaves a range of options for soma's expression of his bagseed diesel momma. and yes, his nyc diesel is not pure diesel, his first hybrid that won the awards was that diesel bag
momma cross shanti's afghani/hawaiian male. i believe the current seeds sold by soma are a first backcross to his diesel mom.
So.....
Original Diesel = (SensiNL X MassSuperSkunk) X Dawg/Chem
Sour Diesel = [(SensiNL X MassSuperSkunk) X Dawg/Chem] X DNL
Soma's NYCD = Diesel Bagseed (probably orig, not sour) X (Afghani X Hawaiian)
DNL = RFK X Hawaiian
RFK = NL X Shiva
The sativa comes from skunk. Two different types Mass. Super Skunk, which was in the Under Dawg Diesel and RFK skunk which was bred into the DNL. The newest confirmed breeding. The DNL was a RFK skunk female/Hawaiian male x NL male. The breeding on this strain has been very unclear over the years . First thought to be a Diesel x NL cross
(that’s how it got its name DNL) this plant grows tall and stretches very similar growth to the Sour.
RFK was a skunk strain developed from seeds found in a bag scored at the 90-91? Dead shows at RFK there were 3 different versions of RFK Skunk 1,2,3. The strain was given to a friend with some Hawaiian seeds (still investigating source) and he crossed the two. Had a female and added some NL pollen (investigating source) creating the DNL, which hermi and seeded the Under Dawg Diesel. I know its confusing. But I think it should be like this...
Original Diesel = Dawg/Chem X (MassSuperSkunk X SensiNL)
Sour Diesel = Original Diesel X DNL
DNL = (RFK Skunk X Hawaiian) X NL
RFK = Skunk strain from RFK dead Shows 90-91
Some of the breeding was planned and some not. The Sour was not planned. The RFK's and stuff was around before the Diesel. Once they got a hold of the Chem they started breeding what they had into it. The DNL was the original cash crop before the Diesel and Sour. But was phased out after being taken over by the Diesel. Only the original breeder and a few have the strain now. Many different crosses were made seeds still exist but are over 10 years old. Once they created the Diesel they were contempt and stopped breeding.
Source:
Author: CBF
Quote: › chronicdog
Senior Member
Registered: Jan 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 668 Soma NYC Diesel: Not Even Close To The Real Thing
Soma,
It rare I post here now (I was at one point a moderator), but I have to speak my mind on this subject.
The strain you sell as NYC Diesel is not even a shadow of the real strain. Honestly, here in NY you have tarnished your reputation beyond repair by releasing a strain so far off base from the real thing.
It is one thing to say, "this is a decent plant I bred from unknown origins", it is another thing altogether to say "I have a strain that a hybrid of NYC Diesel seeds" when everyone and their mother knows the Diesel is a clone - a very rare and desirable clone at that.
Also, FYI: Diesel and Sour Diesel: NOT THE SAME THING!!!! Whoa, don't get them confused, but both can be excellent.
That you took someone's seeds at face value, not even knowing yourself what the real Diesel clone is really like, and then sold crosses of them for the preposterous sum that you did, is simply appalling.
You can fake NL. You can fake the Big Bud. You can fake the Afgani.
But when you fake A PRIZE WINNING STRAIN, and instead sell mediocre genetics at top dollar rates, you are asking for trouble.
I have no doubt you once had good intentions as a Cannabis breeder, but at some point the greed won out over your good intentions, and that is a sad thing.
And don't give me some sob story about how you only were passing along what you were told you were given. To me that’s total bullshit, because you're still banking off the name and not the genetics. None of your strains have impressed me by the way, but that’s normal. I'm a picky bastard. Only that you fronted on the Diesel, the so very special Diesel, and tried to sell it to the world and claim it as your own is just... wrong.
Last edited by chronicdog on September 9th, 2004 at 09:54 AM
August 11th, 2004 07:40 AM
Source: http://xxx.devilsharvest.com/html/in...r=asc&start=15
"This is for rezdog the sour diesel is in fact a total mistake the chemdog which was started in co from a very old farmer got seeds to a person in ma not cali which was started then in 91. It was the best bud i have ever smoked smelled or tasted. By 1993 it was the sickest shit around. Then the kids met these guys from ny at a phish show and they were begging the kids for a cutting which at that point was scarce.The kids were very tight and knew they had something special.We then became good friends and the kids traded the chem dog for a super skunk which is better then any skunk i have seen.We made promises to not give the shit away it was the bomb. Now this is were we get a little pissed off but are over it by now the nyc guys didnt like the name chem dog so they had a idea to chang the name to DIESEL. So the orig Chem dog is Diesel so what happend next explains the Sour The kids in ma had the best shit around everybody wanted the Chem dog people were coming up from albany to get the Diesel in bud form and they found some seeds in one batch. The super skunk that the kids were growing hermd and hit the chem dog aka diesel and the albany crew started those seeds and named it sour diesel also the orig chemdog aka diesl is og kush. its Chem dog also the ma kids are the only ones who have orig seeds of chem dog aka diesel still from the early 90s everybody got cuttings the kids still have 6 seeds left. hope you all find this info helpful i will soon give full details about the chem dog,sour diesel,diesel,og kush.Its time to settle all the bullshit that people seem to know peace to all
Guys your all right except the the og kush is a hermi seed from the chem dog from back in 96 their were only two people in the day to take the chem dog to the west coast it first hit lake tahoe. My friends chem dog got stressed and hermi a little so he decide to try the few seeds and the buddy who gave the chem dog seeds to us said the old farmer said it hade kush in it so my buddy to this day thinks its a strain of the orig kush and said if the ny kids can change the name from chem dog lets call the west coast version OG kUSH that is the truth. If anybody ever smoked the chem dog back in the day early 90s it taste like the sour but fifty times more The chem dog is the mom of the sour so basicly the og kush is a newer seed of the orig chem dog. peace to all. wmposse if any of you have questions let me know also i wanna talk to this rez dog guy because he claims no one has seeds of these strains well iam the only one with true males and females of the Chem dog,Sour diesel,Bubble chem, i have crossed a male Chem dog Aka Diesel with all of Sensi seeds good females already back in 96 they have been in storage since then and i know are still viable because the me kids just started the Super dog which is the Superskunk crossed with the chemdog and its sick enjoy the info a lot more to come
Part of what you say is true. But you have some of the facts mixed up. First of all, I go way back to the begining 92-93. my good friend from NY, was the one who got the Chem Dawg and Super Skunk first. And yes the Chem was first called Diesel because people did not like the name and because it was the "Cock Diesel" But you don't talk about the next strain created from the Chem Dawg. Also known as UnderDawg, Daywrecker, Diesel no.1 (Chem Dawg x super skunk/NL) from this the Sour was born hermied from the DNL(skunk). That is were it gets its vigorous growth and some of the taste. Any one who has grown or smoked it would know. And yes the Albany kids were the first to "find " the Sour, the "bro" and his crew did not invent it. It was grown out of seeds found in head bags bought in NYC. The upstate kids were begging for a cutting of either Diesel and wound up with bag seed to grow. Thats fact."
http://xxx.growshopalien.com/Forum/i...topic=1040&hl=
(Chem Dawg: OG Kush lijn, Kailua Kid)
OG Kush, Bubba Kush and The West Coast Dog.
In late '93 John from Grass Valley Ca. got the Chem Dog cut. He shared it with me, Jerry(cowboy) from Dibble Creek Ca. and Harold(Putz) from Sunset Beach Ca. Putz had a male he called the secret ingredient. It was a cross of Lemon Thai and an Old World Paki Kush. Putz bred the secret ingredient to the Chem Dog. The buds that came out of this cross were going around So. L.A. county in '95. Someone told Putz that Kush must be so good because it was mountain grown. Putz laughed and told him "this Kush is Ocean Grown Kush bro". The tag stuck and it became known as OG Kush. In the spring of '96 Putz married a girl from New Zealand. Before moving there he sent cuts of his OG to me and Bob(beans) in Salinas Ca. He gave all his P1 stock and all the remaining seed he had to Mike(mad dog) from Downey Ca. In late '96 Mike sold some seed to some guys in the Valley. That's where the San Fernando Valley cut of OG comes from. It's like the Original only more sat in pheno type. Mike sold a cut of the original to a guy in Orange county and that cut is called Larry today. It's still around Orange county. Mike sent one other cut of the original OG to a breeder in Europe. As far as I know he never let anyone else have it.
Jerry bred his Chem Dog cut to a Humboldt county indica boy. This was the beginning of his cubing proccess. At BX3 he got a pheno that had all the smell, taste and kick of the Chem Dog, but in a pure indica pheno. Jerry gave this plant to Bob. It became known as the West Coast Dog.
Bob bred this plant to my Old World Kush male. He took a male from that cross and bred it to the OG cut Putz had sent him. This is what made the original Bubba Kush.
Jerry's cubed version of Chem Dog is what I sell as White Mustang.
http://xxx.growshopalien.com/Forum/i...pic=1040&st=15
i noticed this statement:
And yes the Chem was first called Diesel because people did not like the name and because it was the "Cock Diesel" But you don't talk about the next strain created from the Chem Dawg. Also known as UnderDawg, Daywrecker, Diesel no.1 (Chem Dawg x super skunk/NL) from this the Sour was born hermied from the DNL(skunk). That is were it gets its vigorous growth and some of the taste. Any one who has grown or smoked it would know. And yes the Albany kids were the first to "find " the Sour, the "bro" and his crew did not invent it.
is this safe ground to cover or is it the hermie issue? is that why the some, who are trying to help from the thread, follow what i'm curiously asking, and repeatedly try to give me that help in the form of the same info i already have?
why further conflict with this strain and it's excellent x's lets have truth. bring it into the light for all to see....
those TRUELY in the know will bring light to our subject.
Thank you again to KID, CAPO, BIO, and all i quoted for your continued help....
