Alien Genetics - Grow Log from Seed - Pure Coco, CO2

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nMEEKS

nMEEKS

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WOW!!! Thanx again Meeks :) another awesome detailed response!!
1 more question... ;) will a seed grown plant show any sex before a photo-period change? or you must have to change to a flower cycle...? If i was to use regular seeds i would have to make sure i'm growing a female or i imagine i could waste alot more time again flipping to see sex, and then flip back again.... unless i can get a seed grown plant to show sex at an early stage by flipping lights... I'd cry if i grew a monster size plant for 4-7 weeks veg and then flip to see a mass of balls on an indoor tree!! that wouldn't be the easiest thing to 'dispose' of not to mention electricity and time wasted/needed.
I have seen that when a plant gets so big the leaf arrangement does change into that floral arrangement and creating longer stretched out arms on big plants... very interesting.

Thanx Meeks, legendary response!!
As Soser mentioned, you will need at least 3.5-4 weeks of growth before any preflowers will show (based on maturity, not photoperiod) to give you an indication as to the sex. A loop or hand scope is going to be very helpful, but with your camera, you can always just take a macro photo and check that (I know you have a better camera than me, and this is what I do). Feminized seeds are just as good as regular IMO though, as long as you don't plan on breeding with them down the line, so I think that will be the best for your first go with seed in your 1 plant setup.

Plants usually show sex around the fourth to sixth internode and you can tell without flipping the lights - but still need to put in a good 4 weeks or so to even get an idea and sometimes you are wrong and don't find out until flipping for a week to ten days. You will need a 30x magnify lens or jewelers loupe with a light 30-60x ... So imho your style and situation is best to use fem seeds/clones until you have the freedom and the space to try reg beans , I have neither but that does not stop me. Now lets see if I have learned anything from Meeks in these few months when he responds .....good questions as the alternating leaves sights I noticed from seed to clone but never knew why to know ........peace soser
Great answer Soser! The one thing that you missed is something that I only recently learned about, although it has always made sense intuitively. The commonly used term is called 'Split', and it is when a cutting or seedling reaches a point of physiological maturity where it transitions to floral growth even under vegetative lighting schedules. The plant I learned about this concept for are Poinsettias and if they grow more than 5 nodes they have a tendency to 'Split', which is highly undesired when growing vegetative cuttings for production. Growers will come in and 'Pinch' or 'Top' the plants before they reach this stage, which resets the plants maturity clock, and allows the lower nodes to produce new vegetatively growing shoots. Cannabis growers are already familiar with the practices required to do this (topping at the 4-5th node), they just may not know all the benefits of what they are doing.

If a grower is vigilant, and prevents any of his growing shoots from getting more than a few nodes before pinching them back (industry term for topping is actually 'pinching'), they can keep a plant growing 100% vegetatively up to a very large size before any preflowers would be formed/visible. On an untopped/unpinched cannabis plant, preflowers should start to form after the plant forms 5-7 nodes and is growing happily. On a topped/pinched plant, the 4 week wait for preflowers on a seedling can be extended out to 6 weeks or much longer!

Thanks for helping out and getting people solid information when I don't have time to get back right away!
 
flowamasta

flowamasta

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As Soser mentioned, you will need at least 3.5-4 weeks of growth before any preflowers will show (based on maturity, not photoperiod) to give you an indication as to the sex. A loop or hand scope is going to be very helpful, but with your camera, you can always just take a macro photo and check that (I know you have a better camera than me, and this is what I do). Feminized seeds are just as good as regular IMO though, as long as you don't plan on breeding with them down the line, so I think that will be the best for your first go with seed in your 1 plant setup.


Great answer Soser! The one thing that you missed is something that I only recently learned about, although it has always made sense intuitively. The commonly used term is called 'Split', and it is when a cutting or seedling reaches a point of physiological maturity where it transitions to floral growth even under vegetative lighting schedules. The plant I learned about this concept for are Poinsettias and if they grow more than 5 nodes they have a tendency to 'Split', which is highly undesired when growing vegetative cuttings for production. Growers will come in and 'Pinch' or 'Top' the plants before they reach this stage, which resets the plants maturity clock, and allows the lower nodes to produce new vegetatively growing shoots. Cannabis growers are already familiar with the practices required to do this (topping at the 4-5th node), they just may not know all the benefits of what they are doing.

If a grower is vigilant, and prevents any of his growing shoots from getting more than a few nodes before pinching them back (industry term for topping is actually 'pinching'), they can keep a plant growing 100% vegetatively up to a very large size before any preflowers would be formed/visible. On an untopped/unpinched cannabis plant, preflowers should start to form after the plant forms 5-7 nodes and is growing happily. On a topped/pinched plant, the 4 week wait for preflowers on a seedling can be extended out to 6 weeks or much longer!

Thanks for helping out and getting people solid information when I don't have time to get back right away!

Thanx also to Soser :) great information from both of you!! I have some time to think about it, and more excited than ever to try something new :)
Flowa loves to pinch/top/fim his plants :) Never again will i leave a plant un-pinched :p

I really, really appreciate the solid feedback
 
drknockbootz

drknockbootz

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Hey meeks what techniques can I use to help increase resin production in my plants.
Break it down for me DOC
 
nMEEKS

nMEEKS

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Hey meeks what techniques can I use to help increase resin production in my plants.
Break it down for me DOC
Hey Dr.KB, trichomes are produced for a multitude of reasons past the natural genetic traits that different strains have. They are a UV barrier, they increase air flow resistance to decrease water lose, and they can inhibit the spread or access of pests. High light situations will often result in higher trichome production. Controlled water stress or increased air flow on the foliage can stimulate trichome production. But all that is a mute point if your plant is not thriving and as healthy as can be. . .

What I just listed is to increase trichome production, but you wisely asked about resin production, which is a somewhat different story. Although the resin (specifically THC) is stored in large amounts in the glandular trichomes, there is also resin stored in the buds and leaves. Increasing resin production is going to be a matter of decreasing stress on the plant. THC, terpenes, and flavanoids are secondary metabolites and will only be produced by the plant when it has enough energy to produce all its primary metabolites. If the plant is suffering from stress caused by heavy drought, over watering, too high light, low light, nutrient toxicity or deficiency, pest or disease problems, or anything else, then it will have less energy left after producing the primary metabolites and you will end up with less resin production.

Moral of the story, you can increase trichome production by slightly stressing the plant to stimulate production of the natural defense structure that trichomes are, but the less stress a plant experiences the more energy it will be able to exert towards the production of secondary metabolites like the smells, flavors, and intoxicating substances that you want. And of course, you won't be able to bring anything out of the plant that isn't already there in the genetics, so starting with good genetics is step 1.

-Meeks
 
nMEEKS

nMEEKS

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Insanity. Some real FROSTY ladies. Some of the best information and allot of DANK. Keep doing ur thing nMeeks.
Thanks again for the enthusiastic support Quazi! I am hoping to snap some photos of the drying/dried but uncured buds this weekend, very excited for that!
 
nMEEKS

nMEEKS

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Just a few photos that I was able to get while shaking the paper bags last night:

Alien Grapevine #3 (Ultimate Berry Keeper!) -Alien Genetics

Dried AGV1

Potentially the best flavor/smell profile I have gotten from seed!





White Fire Alien (Fire leaning Keeper) -OGRaskal Seeds

Dried WiFiA1
Dried WiFiA2





-Meeks:D
 
soserthc1

soserthc1

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As Soser mentioned, you will need at least 3.5-4 weeks of growth before any preflowers will show (based on maturity, not photoperiod) to give you an indication as to the sex. A loop or hand scope is going to be very helpful, but with your camera, you can always just take a macro photo and check that (I know you have a better camera than me, and this is what I do). Feminized seeds are just as good as regular IMO though, as long as you don't plan on breeding with them down the line, so I think that will be the best for your first go with seed in your 1 plant setup.


Great answer Soser! The one thing that you missed is something that I only recently learned about, although it has always made sense intuitively. The commonly used term is called 'Split', and it is when a cutting or seedling reaches a point of physiological maturity where it transitions to floral growth even under vegetative lighting schedules. The plant I learned about this concept for are Poinsettias and if they grow more than 5 nodes they have a tendency to 'Split', which is highly undesired when growing vegetative cuttings for production. Growers will come in and 'Pinch' or 'Top' the plants before they reach this stage, which resets the plants maturity clock, and allows the lower nodes to produce new vegetatively growing shoots. Cannabis growers are already familiar with the practices required to do this (topping at the 4-5th node), they just may not know all the benefits of what they are doing.

If a grower is vigilant, and prevents any of his growing shoots from getting more than a few nodes before pinching them back (industry term for topping is actually 'pinching'), they can keep a plant growing 100% vegetatively up to a very large size before any preflowers would be formed/visible. On an untopped/unpinched cannabis plant, preflowers should start to form after the plant forms 5-7 nodes and is growing happily. On a topped/pinched plant, the 4 week wait for preflowers on a seedling can be extended out to 6 weeks or much longer!

Thanks for helping out and getting people solid information when I don't have time to get back right away!
I try to pay attention in class prof meeks and as I usually always fim/pinch my plants at the 4th node and there after . I was under the assumption that the pre - flowering was triggered when a plant became root bound. So even in answering your question I learned something. I like you rarely have much time to baby my mothers or space that really allows me to set them up in the correct size pot and keep them lined up and organized plus I also have a hard time eliminating any plants, especially this time a year as spring approaches I was going to toss a few as the upcoming move would be easier but I say to myself why throw that away when i can find a nice spot outside soon and toss it in the outdoors .... lol... so to my questions which I am starting to feel bad about as you seem to be getting peppered with them lately , so feel free to answer when you get time (if you get time) When a mother becomes to root bound or to many pre flowers and I can transplant any bigger, I generally take a cutting and start her over esp if I don't plan on running for awhile . Good or Bad idea ? Question 2 - What is the reasoning for trimming leaves on cutting half way thru the blade and a follow up to a previous answered question tho I think it might have been the other thread but the thinning out the lower leaves on the bottom (stuck for the proper term currently) but from my understanding of your explanation it is not really needed if your environment is ideal or you are dialed in , so is the thinking of pruning the lower leaves to increase production to the top bud sites false ? I am aware it does increase airflow that will help to offset disease I hate to say this but that has never been a issue in my current set up , but I didn't trim the bottoms when I started growing as my thinking was even larf bud is good to have but I have started to do it in the last year or so thinking that production up top would be better but honestly i really have not noticed bigger yields but I chalked that off to messing with o g 's now instead of the old bubble gum strains I started with like mango , SLH & Lemon skunk .... to be honest I am starting to miss my high yielding strains , think i will stop this perpetual garden stuff when I move or set up a room of runs and a perpetual um..... gonna need a breeding room too.... damn think one of my kids will mind moving out ..... i mean she is 22 and I could really use the extra bedroom ......lol..... as always great shit Meeks now I'm ready for a big fatty and a little hockey as once again I have become consumed with Meeks knowledge ...... be well my friend .....
 
nMEEKS

nMEEKS

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Solid questions as usual Soser, and I really don't know how I can convince you that you shouldn't feel bad about asking anything! If I don't know the answer, or don't have time to respond right away, I will let you know, but please don't feel like you are inconveniencing me.

Your first questions is about stock plants getting root bound and the pros/cons of refreshing the plant by taking a cutting. My answer to that is dependent on the cleanliness of your stock plant/cloning operation.

Theoretically a cutting is a true clone. . . but in reality there are a range of things that can occur which will result in the lose of your original genetics during a refresh.

Not all plant diseases display visible signs of infection, and the only way to be sure is to conduct indexing tests that cannabis growers just don't have access to like other plant propagators do. If one of your plants has a virus it becomes of vital importance to eliminate any pests that might vector that virus to other plants and you must also sterilize all your blades/scissors between each plant to avoid mechanically spreading the virus. So the first risk of refreshing your stock plants is that you may proliferate a cryptic virus that may be stunting/slowing growth without you even knowing its there! To be safe, I always alcohol and flame sterilize my scissors between plants when doing any pruning or taking cuttings.

The next thing that you risk when refreshing you mother stock is that you may accidentally clone a branch that has mutated to be slightly different. In the industry this type of single branch mutation is called a 'sport' and is very common especially on certain plants like citrus. Many of our popular citrus varieties today (like cara-caras) are propagated from a 'sport' mutation that they found by luck in an orchard and decided to propagate by cutting! Unfortunately, when you propagate a 'sport' and don't realize you are doing it, you often end up with a lower quality plant from the mutation, rather than a higher quality one. For this reason I always propagate a few branches from each stock plant and do my best to select the most vigorously growing/rooting clone that has as close an appearance to the original as possible.

And then of course, there is the ultimate risk that something may go wrong in your propagation area and the clones may die after you have killed the original stock, or you may mix up labels and end up losing track of what clone is what!


Now that I have covered all the cons. . . how bout a couple pros?

Stock plants that are given ample root environment (as big as you can give them ideally) will grow more vigorously, produce tighter noded, better cuttings that root faster! The increased vigor will benefit you in controlling pests and disease also because a healthier growing plant is more resistant to problems! If space for pots is an issue, refreshing your stock can create this same environment in a smaller pot when starting with a smaller new clone.

Commercial industry propagators also have the ability in today's high-tech tissue culture facilities to propagate the microscopic cells that make up the plants apical meristem, which actually outgrows any plant viruses and when the tissue culture plant is mature it is virus free even when taken from an infected plant!


Now, with all that said, I keep my stock plants in extremely small pots (1 cup - 3/4 gallon) and only do a refresh about once a year! Like you, I have plenty of genetics in my stable that I just dont have the space to grow as frequently as I would like to, so to reduce vigor and time spent by me pruning them back, I choose to keep them root bound until a few months before I want to grow that strain. When I plan on growing cuttings from a stock plant I will either transplant into a larger pot, or refresh the clone and put it back into a 3/4 gallon pot.


Ok, that answer probably rambled on longer than it needed to. . . onto question #2

The reason some growers cut larger fan leaves in half when taking cuttings (I don't) is because the plant loses water through the leaves and takes water in through the roots. . . so when you cut off the root system, you ideally want to reduce the water lose from the leaves as much as possible! This is why we keep the cuttings lightly misted and in a high humidity environment. Reducing the surface area of the leaf blade will also help reduce transpiration water lose, but is wounding the plant and exposing it to opportunistic disease that will thrive in warm moist areas (cloning chamber) like rhizopus. Depending on the size of the leaves on the plant you are cloning, cutting leaf blades in half may be a good idea, but if you keep your stock plants under T5 the leaves will rarely be large enough to warrant cutting. It would be a better idea to maintain even light misting at all times during the first week of rooting than worry about cutting leaves. I clone under a humidome, so water lose is never my issue, but high heat and the diseases that come with that are, so I don't cut my leaves.

Next question about skirting plants for increased growth:

Removing parts of the plant that are sinks and increasing the ratio of sources:sinks remaining is always going to increase the growth rate for the remaining tissue. If the lowest leaves on your plant are past their prime maturity and starting to decline in photosynthetic efficiency or are becoming excess salt storage tissues then removing them will be removing sinks (a sink is a tissue that requires more energy to grow than it is currently producing). When I thin my lower canopy in the first couple weeks of flowering, I do not remove lower leaves. I remove just the bud that is growing at the node where the leaf petiole meets the stem. Getting the experience to know how high up you should remove buds before your yield will start going down in the end is tough. I have had grows where I definitely removed buds too high, and some were I left way to many on and got a ton of larf. . . the trade off isn't going to be 1 to 1 with removing lower larf and getting more top quality bud, but if you do it right it should be close. It may be tough to tell, but from the base of my plants to the top of my colas is never even 3 feet, so removing lower leaves is not nearly as much of a concern for me as it would be for someone growing 4 or 5 foot tall trees that get no light penetration that low in their canopy. If disease has never been an issue for you then you may be growing in too low a humidity. . . because the ideal environment for plant growth is sadly the ideal environment for disease growth many times also! Pruning a thick canopy of lower leaves is very helpful in increasing air flow enough to prevent the growth of disease.


I hope I didn't go too off track with this long post, let me know if I missed answering anything for you Soser!


-Meeks
 
ftwendy

ftwendy

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Nice thread you got here nM! Fancy looking flowers you got there, too!!

Your insight and detailed responses are priceless. Thank you, sir. ftw
 
soserthc1

soserthc1

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@meeks First I'm always good be considered of your time just my style , ignore me , lol understood on the cutting's and mother's and I thought I was insane about cleaning I never even considered using separate tools per plant , cleaning in between yes but totally separate tools per plant is true dedication and something i will take with me and also do , but as with the always present space issue and life getting in the way . That will have to wait as until this is a permanent career or working space considerable increase's and mother's become more elite but i am even in more awe that you do all this along with response's and school and such. I had to read the lower leaves skirt part a few times to understand but again I smoke before finding your answer (go figure) and believe I have a good understand on it now seems to be a trial and error thing that you get a better handle on as your grows go. It is sort of the way I can now tell a sink leaf by just kinda tugging on it now and can tell if i took off a source leaf by the toughness to come off and the present water/sugar ? in the stem that is feeding the plant and your are spot on with my humidity it runs around 39-45 ish and I read about your leaf droop and you reasoning of humidity and thought that mine runs that low but never seem to have much leaf issue lately but i contribute that to sea green and non temp issue's now. But it obviously is effecting my weight but so has my haste and living conditions .... I do learn alot from you and the other good people around here , the cannabis community rocks ........ got more for you but i'll let you catch up .... next co-2's lessons ......peace brotha SoSer ...............
 
U

Urbanweed

1
3
Hi Meeks been following all your grows. Just starting my second grow from seeds. I had lots of left over nutes from a friend from the advance nutrients line. I was thinking of changing over to jrpeters like you since your grow looks awesome. Can you help me out with a feeding schedule or what I need? Really new to growing. Ill start a journal on my third grow once I go through this trial period. Thanks in advance :)
 
nMEEKS

nMEEKS

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Hi Meeks been following all your grows. Just starting my second grow from seeds. I had lots of left over nutes from a friend from the advance nutrients line. I was thinking of changing over to jrpeters like you since your grow looks awesome. Can you help me out with a feeding schedule or what I need? Really new to growing. Ill start a journal on my third grow once I go through this trial period. Thanks in advance :)

Hey Urbanweed, I think you may have missed that I have a new grow log, here is the link. In the new log I talk about my new recipe, which is not the Jack's line anymore, but is similar to it because I still use only dry salts for nutrients. I appreciate that you like the way my grow looks, but want to caution you by saying that my grow looks good because I have learned what I'm doing, and switching to JRPeters or other recipes isn't always going to give you instantly better results.
 

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