Alternative To Hydroguard?

[Ecompost]

Stopped using air stones in my Rez a while back when've realized they were making the fulvic acid fall out of solution. Stopped using a circulating pump for the same reason. Any additional DO comes from a 1/4 hose directed back into the Rez from the main drip line. Whenever there's an irrigation cycle some water gets shot back into the Rez from this. Got the idea from @Smokey503ski

yeah airlift is a better option :-) think water fall :-)

 

[Savage Henry]

Like in my tea Brewer. Thanks, @Ecompost . I'm thinking the issue here is continually fertigating with microbes. Methinks I should switch to applying them like tea: once a week and diluted 1:10.

Having them constantly applied to the medium in a very high concentration seems like I'm overpopulating, especially since the pots I'm experimenting with are so small and completely filled with roots. Nothing else makes sense regarding a ph drop in the substrate when the resevoir is holding steady.

 

[Savage Henry]

And I'll add, after checking the final runoff from last night, I think I may be correct.

After nixing the b. Amylo my runoff ph has risen in 3/4 of the test plants.

I'm hesitant to say that the microbes were the sole cause of the ph drop as it appears (at least according to the runoff ec) that I have been under-feeding a bit. Some purple in the stems backs this up.

I think what I'll do in the future is figure out how to drop my irrigation pump into my airlift Brewer, add the microbes I want to apply, and use the Brewer as the resevoir for what I'll call "microbe day".

 

[Ecompost]

Like in my tea Brewer. Thanks, @Ecompost . I'm thinking the issue here is continually fertigating with microbes. Methinks I should switch to applying them like tea: once a week and diluted 1:10.

Having them constantly applied to the medium in a very high concentration seems like I'm overpopulating, especially since the pots I'm experimenting with are so small and completely filled with roots. Nothing else makes sense regarding a ph drop in the substrate when the resevoir is holding steady.

undoubtedly there is a flux in electrical charge as we add, we adjust, I think it better to let the inital inoculation find a spot, where the populations become comfortable and so there is less overall static :) Scope the life, add whats missing :-)

 

[Ecompost]

And I'll add, after checking the final runoff from last night, I think I may be correct.

After nixing the b. Amylo my runoff ph has risen in 3/4 of the test plants.

I'm hesitant to say that the microbes were the sole cause of the ph drop as it appears (at least according to the runoff ec) that I have been under-feeding a bit. Some purple in the stems backs this up.

I think what I'll do in the future is figure out how to drop my irrigation pump into my airlift Brewer, add the microbes I want to apply, and use the Brewer as the resevoir for what I'll call "microbe day".

microbes bind metals, many metals have a low pH, these may be leaching away and causing your result? have you a soil pH probe? Rather than run off which i find can be misleading. EG I had a run off of 4.8, stuck my probe in a few spots, average pH 6.3 go figure

 

[Savage Henry]

undoubtedly there is a flux in electrical charge as we add, we adjust, I think it better to let the inital inoculation find a spot, where the populations become comfortable and so there is less overall static :) Scope the life, add whats missing :)

This is why I need to get some lysimeters and a quality scope. :)

have you a soil pH probe? Rather than run off which i find can be misleading. EG I had a run off of 4.8, stuck my probe in a few spots, average pH 6.3 go figure

What brand probe do you use? I've considered it, the bluelab one looks promising as ph and ec pens I have from them work quite well. You're absolutely right about the runoff ph being unreliable but I feel if it is inconsistent with what I'm used to it can be a flag to run some further tests. I've done slurrys in the past but I'm experimenting with coco, running it like rockwool in small amounts, so any digging I do will result in disturbing the root mass more than I am comfortable with.

So, my medium ph appears to be back on track, under feeding was definitely a contributing factor. Though my Rez clouded up on me again after a couple days, I'm thinking it's the fulvic acid falling out, as it's the only organic part of my fertigation regiment.

A different resevoir for a different room has had the b. Amylo added for a month straight now and the ph in there is just fine, so maybe I jumped the gun, but there's too many mitigating factors to say for sure.

 

[Ecompost]

This is why I need to get some lysimeters and a quality scope. :)



What brand probe do you use? I've considered it, the bluelab one looks promising as ph and ec pens I have from them work quite well. You're absolutely right about the runoff ph being unreliable but I feel if it is inconsistent with what I'm used to it can be a flag to run some further tests. I've done slurrys in the past but I'm experimenting with coco, running it like rockwool in small amounts, so any digging I do will result in disturbing the root mass more than I am comfortable with.

So, my medium ph appears to be back on track, under feeding was definitely a contributing factor. Though my Rez clouded up on me again after a couple days, I'm thinking it's the fulvic acid falling out, as it's the only organic part of my fertigation regiment.

A different resevoir for a different room has had the b. Amylo added for a month straight now and the ph in there is just fine, so maybe I jumped the gun, but there's too many mitigating factors to say for sure.

You can use the biotic ligand model to study aquatic toxicity I think buddy, perhaps someone like @Seamaiden can provide some assistance or have some input. Being a fishkeeper, she may well be versed in the practice. I know we test free metal ion concentrations in the nutrient solutions using the Donnan membrane technique and labile metal concentrations by diffusive gradients in thin-films.

Just wild input based on our short discussion....
Depending on your water source, media type and so metal/ organic matter, acids such as fulvic may be putting metals in to a more leachable state. You may simply be noticing a drop out of Fe, Cu or other dropping out your pH at run off, of course over time this will stabilise but you may well have drifted out some more valued metals in sediment or gas etc.
You need to be careful since this certainly would mean unwanted metals (Cd Pb etc) are more likely being taken up at the roots, and whats in the roots, is for sure as day follows night, in the shoots.

There is a wide range of hugely conflicting data regarding the additions of humates via acids humic or fulvic, and any such study is typically studied in odd situations with a very narrow focus, which tends not to include the soil as a system, eg where in nature we have many fungal strains acting as a land reef, and barrier, so assisting plants by pre screening pollutants, many of which are toxic metals and petrols for example. Any paper I read about humic acid and its phytotox potential for plants, its usually completed in systems where no case is made for wider participation.

FYI: BOX are currently in the early stages of our own studies, which have combined the research and so skill of both elemental soil scientists, micro biologists, experts in bacteria, fungus and the soil food web. We have included some wider study via geologists and water experts chiming in to give us a far wider image of whats really happening in systems where pollutants are highly probable. Its a live in field and controlled glass house study here in Esti and in locations across the UK, Spain and Poland. At no point soon will i be able to give you any data, we have reports due across the year, but the paper itself is someway off.
As a rule, I use humic acids in soil less media types, i tend not to use them where i have higher biology and organics, since the organics and biology make the stuff for me, no sense over egging the lot and tipping the balance imo.

I sell humates too mate, but I try to be honest about the extent of our understanding. There is no question humates can help to repair damage done to soil systems and they can therefore assist our plants in the uptake of many good elements. Where papers claim we may leach Fe with its use, esp in higher doses, I would argue bacillus subtilus and many other ferro bacterium will gladly scoop up that leaching Fe and the mycos would trap and leaching Cu recycling it via the SFW. We will see in time who is right and who just wrote a paper that in typical academic style, contains very little usable information. :-)

 

[Ecompost]

This is why I need to get some lysimeters and a quality scope. :)



What brand probe do you use? I've considered it, the bluelab one looks promising as ph and ec pens I have from them work quite well. You're absolutely right about the runoff ph being unreliable but I feel if it is inconsistent with what I'm used to it can be a flag to run some further tests. I've done slurrys in the past but I'm experimenting with coco, running it like rockwool in small amounts, so any digging I do will result in disturbing the root mass more than I am comfortable with.

So, my medium ph appears to be back on track, under feeding was definitely a contributing factor. Though my Rez clouded up on me again after a couple days, I'm thinking it's the fulvic acid falling out, as it's the only organic part of my fertigation regiment.

A different resevoir for a different room has had the b. Amylo added for a month straight now and the ph in there is just fine, so maybe I jumped the gun, but there's too many mitigating factors to say for sure.

we do have bluelab pens mate for spot testing, but we have fixed probes from extech I think the company is called. The probes say Oyster on them, this I know :-) The guys have a hand held data logger right now, but we are working on a fixed system so we can ping it for the data.
We also have some benchtop water systems that measure water pH temp ORP, these are neat, they use them in the cloning labs and for stock mixes for the sprayers etc for mixing nutrients :-)

 

[Ecompost]

oh and added, i do use fulvic as a foliar and I do use humic as a bloom nutrient :-) depends on the plant and circumstances of course, i tend not to keep either in the tank, I know when i have i get the eggy smell when I lift the lid that is no no no for me. I do however, use fulvic acid to clean my lines between feeds, helps to break up any organics and debris to help my lines flow but i tend to run this to a holding area where it joins a system of filter ponds.
I also run a fulvic with a veg product I make, late bloom it stops premature pistol ripening and maintains a lower pH so I can swing the P

 

[Jrmy911]

Sorry to revive, but good info. Looks to be about 2500x more concentrated than hydroguard. Just picked some up.

 

[Willy.Balls]

Hi guys!
Can you tell me what colour does your b.amylo liquid has?

I bought grotek biofuse which is a powdered version of inoculant. It's mixed with wood extract and it's very dark brown colour after mixing.

I'm also curious if its safe to spray on leaves?