Apache T8 LED's - in the (photo) flesh

[Swany]

After finding out about the new Apache T8 LED lights from Tags420 on another tread I decieded to get four of them to try them. And like anyone with new toys I figured I would play show and tell.

I still have not received specs on these yet. I will try to get something to post from Robert, the guy I've been talking with at Apache (888-727-2243, Robert Becker). Apache has not yet put these on their website. My cost was right about $50 each including shipping.

Looks like a good design; LEDs look well mounted, ends look to be well epoxied or bonded, heat sink on back.

To put these in a standard T8 or T12 fixture the ballast needs to be bypassed. Apache offers the light in two models; + and - on one end or + on one end and - on the other end. I got the second with a terminal on each end. The pins on either end are internally shunted, which means all you have to do is get a live wire to one end and a neutral to the other. Easy to rewire without a ballast.

I will get them in a fixture soon and tell you what I think. I don't have a light meter and can't show PAR by taking a picture of these next to a T5 fixture to compare visible light output... I can tell you how my plants respond when I get that far.

 

[Kebz]

Look forward to hearing your thoughts Swany, personally I always like the plants to be the deciding factor, their the boss :-)

At the price point, the Apaches look promising and i'm gonna need to replace a lot of bulbs in veg at some point! Might be a good alternative, your feedback's gonna be really useful.

 

[tags420]

I saw on FB they said they were around 240umol. But when actually tested on the par meter it puts out 270umol@6" and 190@12". That was tested by the owner himself in their test chamber. They are the best output T8led tubes out, apache made sure of that.

 

[tags420]

How are the tubes doing?

 

[Swany]

Hey Tags - Sorry for the delay. Been so busy I've not had time to put them in play.

I'm going to move clones to some veg containers I just worked out and I will put the LED lamps over half of them. I would veg under MH if I timed it right, but started clones since I was trimming the current flowering crop early. Won't be scientific, but maybe we'll get an indication of better or worse performance vs. T5HO. All the clones are under the T5 now and they are certainly growing better than the last batch under T8. It's going to be a late night, if I can't get the post up tonight I will tomorrow.

 

[Swany]

No update yet. Got home late and spent time on general maintenance until it was too late. I will try again tonight. Clone roots are just about to the bottom of the cloner....

 

[Swany]

Finally got the lights installed.

I started a batch of clones from my first grows last trim before flipping to flower. The clones were definetly ready to transplant out of the cloner, but the first crop is still growing so I rigged an intermediate home for vegging the second crop. This is where I'm using the Apache T8 LED's for the first time.

The LED's are on the left in a modified T8 fixture. The fixture on the right is a 4 bulb T5HO unit. I've got two strains under the lights, Cnx and Blue City Diesel. The Cnx are the taller ones. Under the LED's the Cnx are on the left side of the tub (the taller ones) and under the T5's the Cnx are to the back. Not exactly scientific but it might help diminish bleed over from one light source to the other side. All the Cnx are about 10" high. We'll see if this simple set up indicates any difference in growth.

A few more pics if they are interesting. If you look close you can tell the visible light from the LED's is not as bright as T5HO's. Of course, that's to our eyes and not the plants. I would sure love to get a PAR meter but I'm not willing to fork out $300 plus right now.

LED's
T5HO's
Second shot of the two lights

 

[tags420]

Nice!!! Cool setup.
I don't know if it the lights or it was feed/water time but the LED's are nice and perky/happy and the T5's not so much.

 

[Swany]

Nice!!! Cool setup.
I don't know if it the lights or it was feed/water time but the LED's are nice and perky/happy and the T5's not so much.

The ones under the LED's just feel special 'cause they get the fancy new light ;-}

After a nite of rest and some solid light and food they're all standing strait up again. Last run I had them under MH at this point and the BCD stayed real short. I'm hoping the BCD stretch a bit, but I don't want the Cnx to stretch. Since I have not other place to put them we'll just see what happens...

 

[Swany]

I don't see any changes yet, but it's only been two days. At least you can see the T5's are standing up ;-}

LED -

T5HO -

 

[tags420]

Nice. I figured it was just being moody at first. They all look good now.
Your setup is perfect to see if there is any differences from lights, other than 1/2 the wattage.
Are you going to flower under them too?

 

[Swany]

...Are you going to flower under them too?

No. My main room has four 1k fixtures and I'll move the baskets out of the tubs they are in now and into the big tubs in the main room. That will be two or three weeks from now. Should be long enough to indicate if there is any difference in growth.

 

[tags420]

All make sense now. Very cool system/setup you have.
Like you say enough time to see.

 

[kindest]

looks like they are online now http://www.apachetechinc.com/24-led-tube.html 90 bucks each and no specs.

 

[tags420]

Call them and say you were told they were $50, and they will do it. No sure why they are listed so high on the site...I'm actually surprised they have them up already.

They are all white and match 54wT5 out put with only 18w. The fit in any T8/T12 fixture...you just need do a little rewiring to bypass/remove the florescent ballast and with direct to sockets.

 

[Ever after]

NEW PICS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Swany]

NEW PICS PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes Sir! I've been frantically trying to clear my room to move in this batch of clones, i.e. i've been trimming ;-}

It's been about 19 days since I split the plants under the (2) 3500K and (2) 5000K T5HO's vs. the new Apache LED T8 tubes. Looks like the T5HO's are winning in at least the height department.

Apache's

T5HO's

In the T5 picture above, the tallest one on the right doesn't count. That clone was the best performer and was taller than the rest to start. I've supercroped it many times. The rest have been cropped a few times as well, the T5 plants more often. All the tall ones are Cinex. If you take another look you can see there are shorter plants in front, the Blue City Diesel. I'm not really counting them since they are all so far from the lights at this point.

The T5's might have produced more growth, though about 100% more power was used than the LED's. The T5's are burning 231 watts and the LED's are burning 78, less than their advertized wattage. In my case I actually prefer the LED's 'cause the plants are not as big. I'm not currently running mom plants so I take cuttings prior to flip and need them to last until I can trim and clean out the room.

 

[Swany]

looks like they are online now http://www.apachetechinc.com/24-led-tube.html 90 bucks each and no specs.

Growl - I would like to see a PAR chart and I only had to pay ~$50 each.

 

[Swany]

They are all white and match 54wT5 out put with only 18w. The fit in any T8/T12 fixture...you just need do a little rewiring to bypass/remove the florescent ballast and with direct to sockets.

I was going to correct you about the wattage 'cause the website says they are 22w each. Before I did so I went out and measured the fixture and with 4 lamps burning my meter says 78 watts, a little more than 18 but certainly less than 22. I wonder if my meter is bad... It's nothing fancy, a 'kill a watt' meter which you can pick up at HD for about $30. I measure the 4 T5's at 231 - 4x54 plus some ballast waist. Did you measure yours and come up with 18w or do you know something we don't....?

 

[tags420]

Considering the wattage difference I think they are performing really well. 2 more tubes in the same space and you still have less than 1/2 the wattage and they would probably be super equal.

The 18w were the first I saw from AT. Then he said he had some 22w'er coming. There is 2 different wiring/power supply versions for the tubes and I think that the wattage is different for each. And slight voltage differnce could be the difference that you are seeing with your meter.

When I was at the max yield show...
8 bulb T5 was putting out 650umol@6" using 432w(54w*8)
And a 6 bulb apache tube custom fixture did 545umol@6" using 106w (actual measured using watt meter.)

T5 aren't hot but the led tubes are way cooler.
I think that getting enough of the led tubes will make a difference for some people looking so improved growth over a T5, not so much the power savings. Closer to equal wattage will be a big difference.