Aquaman gets dirty

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

chemistry said:
You do love a puzzle MIM. lol

I want true facts posted if they are out there. The post i am trying to confirm is right out of 30 year old grow books but heavily challanged by extensive testing today.

And I think the nute companies know but dont want to stop selling bloom nutes as it is half or more of their cannabis business.

The interview with dyna grow i have posted says no need for higher p after their tests yet the owner now is still recomending bloom nutes but now its to “signal” the plant.

So I want to know the real science here.

Dirtbag · Jul 10, 2020

I'm curious to know the science as well. But at the same time, I'm extremely confident that increasing P before flower and the first couple weeks of stretch caused the plants to initiate flowering much faster than usual. I'm on DrGreens side on this one just based on my observations of how my well established strains reacted to it.

@MIMedGrower I know you have experimented with bloom nutes in the past but have you ever tried preloading K before flower and then going back to the grow ratio after stretch? or were your bloom nute experiments only using P during flower or just after stretch? Because that's what I have seen recommended a lot in forums is increasing P only after the stretch, and at that point it's kinda too late and can even be detrimental.

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

Dirtbag said:
I'm curious to know the science as well. But at the same time, I'm extremely confident that increasing P before flower and the first couple weeks of stretch caused the plants to initiate flowering much faster than usual. I'm on DrGreens side on this one just based on my observations of how my well established strains reacted to it.

@MIMedGrower I know you have experimented with bloom nutes in the past but have you ever tried preloading K before flower and then going back to the grow ratio after stretch? or were your bloom nute experiments only using P during flower or just after stretch? Because that's what I have seen recommended a lot in forums is increasing P only after the stretch, and at that point it's kinda too late and can even be detrimental.

Sort of. Originally when i started to grow more successfully i just gave the bottle i felt they needed. So in stretch i might see the need for p or k more than nitrogen so i would give that. Same if i was low on pk at peak bloom. But always went back to the grow bottle cause there would be yellowing if i stayed with bloom.

However (and of course this is all in ocean forest) when i decided to try only the grow bottle regardless of what i saw it worked even better and faster. And thats when i started noticing the plants staying healthy and green longer and bloom times got a bit longer but with higher and higher yields as i learned to taper down strength properly. And to my surprise there were no negatives to the product when continuing grow nutes.

So i never bought another bloom bottle.

And here we are. :-)

Greenjourneyman · Jul 10, 2020

So I’m a still working out the kinks of my on the fly mix in nutrients, these plants got a little too much of a P blast. I use a powdered product called pK boost for flowering cycle. Next time around I will have to try this pre-12/12 P fortification.
I was a tad heavy handed, one strain in particular is really showing the yellow purple burn colors.

Dirtbag · Jul 10, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
Sort of. Originally when i started to grow more successfully i just gave the bottle i felt they needed. So in stretch i might see the need for p or k more than nitrogen so i would give that. Same if i was low on pk at peak bloom. But always went back to the grow bottle cause there would be yellowing if i stayed with bloom.

However (and of course this is all in ocean forest) when i decided to try only the grow bottle regardless of what i saw it worked even better and faster. And thats when i started noticing the plants staying healthy and green longer and bloom times got a bit longer but with higher and higher yields as i learned to taper down strength properly. And to my surprise there were no negatives to the product when continuing grow nutes.

So i never bought another bloom bottle.

And here we are. :-)

I totally agree that N needs to stay up through flower, I dont dispute that one bit. And I acknowledge that all the plant really needs is balanced grow ratio start to finish. But none of that takes away from the fact that an increase in P can be used as a trigger to make bloom get going faster, and like Dr.Green pointed out the entourage effect of using P along with a photoperiod lag and temperature drop hardening has a greater effect than any of those tricks on their own. And the effect is even more pronounced when you grow in a fast growing system like Hydro compared to promix.

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

Dirtbag said:
I totally agree that N needs to stay up through flower, I dont dispute that one bit. And I acknowledge that all the plant really needs is balanced grow ratio start to finish. But none of that takes away from the fact that an increase in P can be used as a trigger to make bloom get going faster, and like Dr.Green pointed out the entourage effect of using P along with a photoperiod lag and temperature drop hardening has a greater effect than any of those tricks on their own. And the effect is even more pronounced when you grow in a fast growing system like Hydro compared to promix.

The plants i have grown flowered between 9 days and three weeks. Every time i have a slow flowerer it tends to take 11 or 12 weeks to truly finish. And are usually the best flowers in potency and complexity as well as yield.

Why is it better to trick the plant into blooming faster? My experience tells me that faster plants are never better. Just faster.

So I still think the only benefit is faster turnover. And i think longer slower plants develop more diverse cannabanoid profile.

Shame we only test for a few canabanoids since the entourage effect with canabanoids is obvioisly real.

dire wolf · Jul 10, 2020

Is there going to be a quiz on all this stuff at weed camp ? , because I'm pretty fried and I just want to splash around and eat , if there is going to be academic stuff , I'm gonna start studying now .........

newh · Jul 10, 2020

dire wolf said:
Is there going to be a quiz on all this stuff at weed camp ? , because I'm pretty fried and I just want to splash around and eat , if there is going to be academic stuff , I'm gonna start studying now .........

I will share my footnotes with ya lol

Aqua Man · Jul 10, 2020

newh said:
I will share my footnotes with ya lol

Ok your in charge of notes. We will need a recap in about 6-12 months time

Dirtbag · Jul 10, 2020

Most cannabinoids and terpenes are created in the last 2/3 of flower. We agree on how to feed cannabis during that period. The P spike, darkness period and temperature tweak are geared toward getting flower started faster, shortening internode spacing and just overall increasing the vigor during stretch. I definitely did not see any negatives, and saw a noticable improvement in flower onset.

I've seen people use this technique under 1000DE have flowers forming in literally 4-5 days.

Honestly try it sometime. Starting 5 days before flower till 2 weeks flower use 30% dyna grow bloom and 70% foliage pro, then go back to foliage pro. When you flip give them a full 24-36hrs dark and drop temps into the low 60's for a few days. You can do a few days temp drop at the end of stretch too to harden them.

Try that sometime and tell me it doesnt work.

Aqua Man · Jul 10, 2020

Dirtbag said:
Most cannabinoids and terpenes are created in the last 2/3 of flower. We agree on how to feed cannabis during that period. The P spike, darkness period and temperature tweak are geared toward getting flower started faster, shortening internode spacing and just overall increasing the vigor during stretch. I definitely did not see any negatives, and saw a noticable improvement in flower onset.

I've seen people use this technique under 1000DE have flowers forming in literally 4-5 days.

Honestly try it sometime. Starting 5 days before flower till 2 weeks flower use 30% dyna grow bloom and 70% foliage pro, then go back to foliage pro. When you flip give them a full 24-36hrs dark and drop temps into the low 60's for a few days. You can do a few days temp drop at the end of stretch too to harden them.

Try that sometime and tell me it doesnt work.

Doh!!!! I missed the temp drop... I even thought about it.

Aqua Man · Jul 10, 2020

12 hrs of driving today... Forgot my back pills and couldn't smoke and drive... Get to wake up and do it all over again. Hope everyone else is doing well

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

dire wolf said:
Is there going to be a quiz on all this stuff at weed camp ? , because I'm pretty fried and I just want to splash around and eat , if there is going to be academic stuff , I'm gonna start studying now .........

Yes!

Dirtbag · Jul 10, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Doh!!!! I missed the temp drop... I even thought about it.

Always somethin...

Aqua Man · Jul 10, 2020

For note sake I had buds I think 7 or 8 days after flip. No temp drop in the 60's.

Got that @newh ?

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

Dirtbag said:
Most cannabinoids and terpenes are created in the last 2/3 of flower. We agree on how to feed cannabis during that period. The P spike, darkness period and temperature tweak are geared toward getting flower started faster, shortening internode spacing and just overall increasing the vigor during stretch. I definitely did not see any negatives, and saw a noticable improvement in flower onset.

I've seen people use this technique under 1000DE have flowers forming in literally 4-5 days.

Honestly try it sometime. Starting 5 days before flower till 2 weeks flower use 30% dyna grow bloom and 70% foliage pro, then go back to foliage pro. When you flip give them a full 24-36hrs dark and drop temps into the low 60's for a few days. You can do a few days temp drop at the end of stretch too to harden them.

Try that sometime and tell me it doesnt work.

Ok. But after i do a run and get a harvest. Im going to stick with what has worked for me to get back going. Maybe even with ocean forest and pbpg and blue lemon thai seeds.

And botaniguard. Lol

newh · Jul 10, 2020

Aqua Man said:
Ok your in charge of notes. We will need a recap in about 6-12 months time

Im not in charge of nothin,sorry lol.

Dirtbag · Jul 10, 2020

MIMedGrower said:
Ok. But after i do a run and get a harvest. Im going to stick with what has worked for me to get back going. Maybe even with ocean forest and pbpg and blue lemon thai seeds.

And botaniguard. Lol

Fair deal. BUT... It might not be quite as pronounced an effect in turtle speed promix... You really need to turn things up to rabbit to see what does what with your own eyes.

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

newh said:
Im not in charge of nothin,sorry lol.

The new Mod says you are. :-)

MIMedGrower · Jul 10, 2020

Dirtbag said:
Fair deal. BUT... It might not be quite as pronounced an effect in turtle speed promix... You really need to turn things up to rabbit to see what does what with your own eyes.

i knew you were going to say something like that.

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