Aquaman gets dirty

[Dirtbag]

I will say in my hydro the work was easy in soil not so easy. I mean i am one of those guys that respects how fast things can go wrong if left to their own device in hydro so I should probably change my statement now that I'm further along in dirt.

Dirt more forgiving, less control with harder work.

Hydro less forgiving, much faster growth, ultimate control, work is easy but more constant.

How I feel about it now.

Accurate.

 

[MIMedGrower]

But @Aqua Man you didnt grow in dirt. You grew soiless just like coco. If you are pouring in nutrients its a hydroponic grow.

And i have seen growers achieve fantastic and equal results using all 3 mediums.

Looks like to me with all things being equal. Pure water culture may veg up to two weeks faster than peat. Coco about 1 week faster. Both only faster really in veg.

And i have only seen higher yields because of lights and environment. Bot method.

The grow weed easy guy uses diy hydro bins and promotes mainlining. I have matched his 4x4 yield many times watering peat mix every few days.

Took a lot of practice but he does a lot more work than me with the res changes and constant training.

But it only gets him extra work not better results

But he says its better. It was for him.

 

[Aqua Man]

Did the two side by side for my first few grows and have had no desire to go back to soil for over 10yrs. That being said, for those that have no restrictions on plant count or others that are severely limited on space I could see the appeal.

A lot of people say that hydro is more difficult than soil and I know aqua called this his "lazy" grow, maybe plant for plant soil is easier but I think if you look at if from the point of how much effort is put in per gram or ounce harvested then imo hydro comes out on top every time (excluding outdoors of course). I think thats why many people who have done both ultimately end up sticking with hydro.

I should also clarify by lazy mean that I did shit in terms of training and I often did not looks at them for days. In my hydro that was not an option. Also being a mother run is part of why I dod not train as I would normally because I wanted to see the structures of the plants so I treated them all the same. Topped and thats it. Some I had to remove the bottom nodes because they were tiny and others showed very uniform branching.

I will say DWC would probably be as bad or worse than soil. When doing RDWC I feel like the more plants you have the mork work you save because you only have one res to water all the plants. Some positives and negatives of each. But in the end hydro I feel is far superior and coco in particular I feel is the best media from a microbiology standpoint... yes far more so than soil. I just dont think its being used for that purpose as much as it will be in the future. I have always been about salts as in the end organics are broken down into salts before the plant can take them up anyhow. But there is i feelbsomething to be said for the benwfots of the microbiology that using organics brings. I just cant say exactly what that is while I do have an idea. Imo coco will be the way for organics in the future and will be considered the media of choice for organic, veganic, etc growers.

 

[Aqua Man]

But @Aqua Man you didnt grow in dirt. You grew soiless just like coco. If you are pouring in nutrients its a hydroponic grow.

And i have seen growers achieve fantastic and equal results using all 3 mediums.

Looks like to me with all things being equal. Pure water culture may veg up to two weeks faster than peat. Coco about 1 week faster. Both only faster really in veg.

And i have only seen higher yields because of lights and environment. Bot method.

The grow weed easy guy uses diy hydro bins and promotes mainlining. I have matched his 4x4 yield many times watering peat mix every few days.

Took a lot of practice but he does a lot more work than me with the res changes and constant training.

But it only gets him extra work not better results

But he says its better. It was for him.

Is sunshine 4 not dirt? Honestly thought it was. Maybe im confused now

 

[Milson]

I should also clarify by lazy mean that I did shit in terms of training and I often did not looks at them for days. In my hydro that was not an option. Also being a mother run is part of why I dod not train as I would normally because I wanted to see the structures of the plants so I treated them all the same. Topped and thats it. Some I had to remove the bottom nodes because they were tiny and others showed very uniform branching.

I will say DWC would probably be as bad or worse than soil. When doing RDWC I feel like the more plants you have the mork work you save because you only have one res to water all the plants. Some positives and negatives of each. But in the end hydro I feel is far superior and coco in particular I feel is the best media from a microbiology standpoint... yes far more so than soil. I just dont think its being used for that purpose as much as it will be in the future. I have always been about salts as in the end organics are broken down into salts before the plant can take them up anyhow. But there is i feelbsomething to be said for the benwfots of the microbiology that using organics brings. I just cant say exactly what that is while I do have an idea. Imo coco will be the way for organics in the future and will be considered the media of choice for organic, veganic, etc growers.

I'm trying to work out a layered combo coco/soil method with this in mind. We will see how it goes. In general I have a similar sense to you I think re: what is optimal, but it's just a guess. Almost everyone here has a lot more xp than me.

 

[Anthem]

Lol or you may not. I think a lot of people who go from dirt to hydro/soiless dont go back. But I'm sure lots of hydro growers have tried dirt and quickly gone back to hydro. There will be outliers to this theory of course lol.

I will be finding this out in the coming weeks.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Is sunshine 4 not dirt? Honestly thought it was. Maybe im confused now

Its peat, perlite, wetting agent, nutrient charge.

Sunshine 4 uses organic certified wetting agent and nutrients.

Thats the only difference to pro mix hp. Chemicle wetting agent and chemical salt nutrients.

And myco added to the pro mix.

 

[Aqua Man]

Is sunshine 4 not dirt? Honestly thought it was. Maybe im confused now

I just looked yeah its peat... to the differences imo its all about the aeration of the soil. The hihher the o2 and more gas exchange a media has the faster the growth... i cant prove it and haven't really researched it a lot but thats how I feel. Much like increased co2 for the leaves I feel increased or atleast less depletion of o2 in the media will increase growth rates.

On a side note I haven't used 1/4 of a 20lb tank on this grow... its crazy how much diffence it makes having a very tightly sealed room. The other benefit to sealed room i stumbled across thanks to @MIMedGrower is that a sealed room with co2 will not only have higher co2 but also much much higher levels of o2... possibly more than 10x. Just to point out co2 and o2 are independent so you can have high levels of both. What i don't know is if this has any negative effects but something im going to look into.

 

[FourthCity]

I should also clarify by lazy mean that I did shit in terms of training and I often did not looks at them for days. In my hydro that was not an option. Also being a mother run is part of why I dod not train as I would normally because I wanted to see the structures of the plants so I treated them all the same. Topped and thats it. Some I had to remove the bottom nodes because they were tiny and others showed very uniform branching.

I will say DWC would probably be as bad or worse than soil. When doing RDWC I feel like the more plants you have the mork work you save because you only have one res to water all the plants. Some positives and negatives of each. But in the end hydro I feel is far superior and coco in particular I feel is the best media from a microbiology standpoint... yes far more so than soil. I just dont think its being used for that purpose as much as it will be in the future. I have always been about salts as in the end organics are broken down into salts before the plant can take them up anyhow. But there is i feelbsomething to be said for the benwfots of the microbiology that using organics brings. I just cant say exactly what that is while I do have an idea. Imo coco will be the way for organics in the future and will be considered the media of choice for organic, veganic, etc growers.

I think in your case a bigger reservoir would have been the only change needed in your setup to allow you more time away from the plants, that and maybe raising the lights a little bit extra if you know you would be gone for awhile.

My plants are in their own 5 gallon buckets, no rdwc, but I have been experimenting with using 10 gallon rubbermaid trash cans as a reservoir/bucket and it makes a big difference. In the 10 gallon even with a very large plant at full size (covering about 8 sqft and nearly 6ft tall) I can still go about three days before the water level gets dangerously low. I could switch entirely to the 10 gallons and cut my workload nearly in half but at roughly $30/each vs $3.50 for the 5 gallons and with over 24 plants its too big of an investment for me right now.

I'm just saying the work load can depend heavily on the setup. For example, and I know little about coco so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can tell it needs the most attention if you are watering by hand, at the same time it seems like if you automate the watering its no longer very work intensive, all just depends.

 

[MIMedGrower]

I just looked yeah its peat... to the differences imo its all about the aeration of the soil. The hihher the o2 and more gas exchange a media has the faster the growth... i cant prove it and haven't really researched it a lot but thats how I feel. Much like increased co2 for the leaves I feel increased or atleast less depletion of o2 in the media will increase growth rates.

On a side note I haven't used 1/4 of a 20lb tank on this grow... its crazy how much diffence it makes having a very tightly sealed room. The other benefit to sealed room i stumbled across thanks to @MIMedGrower is that a sealed room with co2 will not only have higher co2 but also much much higher levels of o2... possibly more than 10x. Just to point out co2 and o2 are independent so you can have high levels of both. What i don't know is if this has any negative effects but something im going to look into.

With the potting soil you can add perlite for more drainage and with enough you could put the sunshine 4 or pro mix or even ocean forest on drippers and fertigate to your hearts content.

I backed off on perlite to not have to water so often. Lol

 

[Anthem]

I just looked yeah its peat... to the differences imo its all about the aeration of the soil. The hihher the o2 and more gas exchange a media has the faster the growth... i cant prove it and haven't really researched it a lot but thats how I feel. Much like increased co2 for the leaves I feel increased or atleast less depletion of o2 in the media will increase growth rates.

On a side note I haven't used 1/4 of a 20lb tank on this grow... its crazy how much diffence it makes having a very tightly sealed room. The other benefit to sealed room i stumbled across thanks to @MIMedGrower is that a sealed room with co2 will not only have higher co2 but also much much higher levels of o2... possibly more than 10x. Just to point out co2 and o2 are independent so you can have high levels of both. What i don't know is if this has any negative effects but something im going to look into.

So Aqua what did you do to seal your room up so tight? I was all stoked earlier this week because I was burning thru tanks so fast, I have noticed an increase in the plant using co2 from like week 4 to 7. Do you see the same?

 

[Dirtbag]

Is sunshine 4 not dirt? Honestly thought it was. Maybe im confused now

Technically speaking it's a soilless medium. But that's kind of splitting hairs.. I agree peat can grow great plants, but coco or hydro does it faster with an easier workload for me.


I guess my question would be why bother using several gallons of peat and perlite when I can use a single gallon of much more envirnonmentally friendly coco to get the same results faster with an easier workload? I mean to each their own.

 

[MIMedGrower]

Oh and @Aqua Man one more thing. Peat has natural bacteria already and will colonize new micro life faster and easier than coco. Coco is inert. Peat is not entirely.

And thats why for most food production only 30% coco max is added to peat mix for drainage.

Cut the organics too much and flavor suffers. (I know this is an argued thing but i have not seen any instance of food being grown in 100% coco)

When the bogs run out is when wisk broom growing will really take off. ;-)

 

[MIMedGrower]

Technically speaking it's a soilless medium. But that's kind of splitting hairs.. I agree peat can grow great plants, but coco or hydro does it faster with an easier workload for me.


I guess my question would be why bother using several gallons of peat and perlite when I can use a single gallon of much more envirnonmentally friendly coco to get the same results faster with an easier workload? I mean to each their own.

Why is it easier? And so much peat lite mix is not needed. I use 2.4 gallons per plant in flower.

And unless you are getting 6-8 oz per plant you need more pots so more workload.

 

[Aqua Man]

I think in your case a bigger reservoir would have been the only change needed in your setup to allow you more time away from the plants, that and maybe raising the lights a little bit extra if you know you would be gone for awhile.

My plants are in their own 5 gallon buckets, no rdwc, but I have been experimenting with using 10 gallon rubbermaid trash cans as a reservoir/bucket and it makes a big difference. In the 10 gallon even with a very large plant at full size (covering about 8 sqft and nearly 6ft tall) I can still go about three days before the water level gets dangerously low. I could switch entirely to the 10 gallons and cut my workload nearly in half but at roughly $30/each vs $3.50 for the 5 gallons and with over 24 plants its too big of an investment for me right now.

I'm just saying the work load can depend heavily on the setup. For example, and I know little about coco so correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can tell it needs the most attention if you are watering by hand, at the same time it seems like if you automate the watering its no longer very work intensive, all just depends.

Yeah imo coco needs autofeed. Its all in the equipment.

Bigger res means more nutrients also needs to be considered. 4 plants drinking close to 6 gal a day. System held 40 gal of actual water. I ran twmls of 72-74f and things can go wrong fast like that but also gives faster growth and i mean noticeably. I don't recommend high temos to new growers though. You need to really take precautions and imo only should be done in a live system not sterile. I wont get into that though.

 

[MIMedGrower]

This argument is as pointless as flushing and the like.

My point was no method is “better” just different and with different pros and cons.

 

[Dirtbag]

That's nonsense about flavor suffering with coco. I cant tell any difference between peat or coco honestly, flavor or aroma wise. Maybe if its mixed with peat I dont know, but I can promise coco on it's own produces buds that are just as fragrant and flavorful as those grown in peat.

And coco is mostly inert, but it does have a cec and contains some minerals like potassium. And since its kept saturated all the time I feel it's actually a better host for beneficial microorganisms compared to something with more pronounced wet and dry cycles.

 

[Aqua Man]

Oh and @Aqua Man one more thing. Peat has natural bacteria already and will colonize new micro life faster and easier than coco. Coco is inert. Peat is not entirely.

And thats why for most food production only 30% coco max is added to peat mix for drainage.

Cut the organics too much and flavor suffers. (I know this is an argued thing but i have not seen any instance of food being grown in 100% coco)

When the bogs run out is when wisk broom growing will really take off. ;-)

Bacteria also occur naturally. Also you can add them and even use a cup of peat on top to seed the coco. All of these bacteria are aerobic and for bacteria there are a few things that are key to reproduce and thrive. Temp, ph, o2 levels, surface area exposed to o2 and moisture. Coco imo has the best makeup for this and since bacteria reproduce so fast you can seed them very easily to have an establish colony in days

 

[Aqua Man]

That's nonsense about flavor suffering with coco. I cant tell any difference between peat or coco honestly, flavor or aroma wise. Maybe if its mixed with peat I dont know, but I can promise coco on it's own produces buds that are just as fragrant and flavorful as those grown in peat.

And coco is mostly inert, but it does have a cec and contains some minerals like potassium. And since its kept saturated all the time I feel it's actually a better host for beneficial microorganisms compared to something with more pronounced wet and dry cycles.

It is 100% better for microbiology. I have spent countless yrs of practical and research on creating the best possible conditions for beneficial bacteria.

 

[Dirtbag]

Why is it easier? And so much peat lite mix is not needed. I use 2.4 gallons per plant in flower.

short list?
-I use half the media I did with peat even with more plants. Thats easier to move into, and more importantly out of my space to dispose of. Now I carry out a single trash bag at the end of the grow rather than hauling out pots.
-I can transplant clones once into the final container, Instead of transplanting 3 times like you do in peat. That's a lot less work.
-It shaves a full week or 2 off the grow cycle, that's a week or 2 less feeding etc..
-Because of the small containers the automated feeding is stupidly easy to manage.
-the plants are immediately responsive to feedings and/or nutrient deficiencies or excesses, making dialing in the feeding a lot easier

But like you said we dont need to argue over which is better. I'm just saying why coco is better for me.