Aquaponics - Let fish be your Nutrient!

[Seamaiden]

Ah, but there are FW flounder. Not sure how tasty they are, but I understand that fishes like Oscars, Red Devils (the large Central & South American fishes) are extremely good eating, if not perhaps a little bony. But you just kind of described a trout, too. I don't care for trout, one of my least favorite fishes to eat. I'd rather eat a bass.

FW flatfish. It's very, very flat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatfish

 

[ttystikk]

Ah, but there are FW flounder. Not sure how tasty they are, but I understand that fishes like Oscars, Red Devils (the large Central & South American fishes) are extremely good eating, if not perhaps a little bony. But you just kind of described a trout, too. I don't care for trout, one of my least favorite fishes to eat. I'd rather eat a bass.

FW flatfish. It's very, very flat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatfish

Maybe I'm just hungry, but I like them all!

 

[ThePreacher]

lol about the Pacu in Sweden!
I am from Norway I when I saw about the Pacu via either Daily Show or the Colbert Report I was flabbergasted! Awsomest fish evAH!

So I looked everywhere for Mosquito Dunks, with the type "bacillus thuringiensis israelensis", only thing to find in Spain seems to be this one: "bacillus thuringiensis var. Kurstaki"
<- this is of course the main strain. Parent if you will of the israelensis. What I have been told in various grow shops that this only work on caterpillars, but it is supposed to kill larvae, so maybe I will give it a try. On the other hand, caterpillars and worms, pretty much the same thing, ye ? :D
I also ordered some predator Hypoaspis miles, should be arriving in a week. 36€, not that bad.
Anyone tested these before, how long can they live in the package ?

 

[Seamaiden]

Both subspecies of B. thuringiensis, and everything I read says to use B. t. israelensis, *not* kurstaki. I run into exactly the same problem, Preacher. But found no relief from the kurstaki var.

I can't remember who it is here who swears by hypoaspis mites, but there is someone here who swears by them. I swear!

 

[ThePreacher]

Update time, with fresh photos!

The most of the plants are doing better. Starting to build a fine canopy!
Only set back is that the one in the back left corner shows some deficiencies, most likely Boron, as this table seem to indicate:
http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/tables_guide.php

Here you guys can take a look on what I'm talking about:



Is it possible that if a plant had a bad "child hood", it shows later in maturity ?
I think this one was on the brink of death when I picked it up as a clone, but I nurtured it back to life.


Seems like the one in the back right corner, the one with rust issues is starting to look better:



pH: 5.9
Ammonia: too low to measure
Nitrite: too low to measure
Nitrate: too low to measure

Temp is steady with around 24 degrees celcius at top pot size during "day time", and 23 at "night time".
RH is around 60 during night and 50 during day.




Not much of the flying bastard around, but I do see some new ones under the cover of the pots. Can't wait to get the predator mites and give the the feast of their life!

I'm rounding this update up with a montage of the scrog!

 

[Seamaiden]

Hmm... I was going to comment that B- is hard to get, but your photos seem to show what could indeed be a B-. Some micronutrients would be in order here, question is how best to introduce them. It's been a LONG time since I've used a bottled product, and I can't remember what it is that I have downstairs, it's reddish/pink, soluble, worked pretty well last time I used it some years ago. Now I use stuff like Azomite and volcanic rock dusts, but I honestly think those may take too long to become available to be of use to you here.

I also believe that you actually want readable NO3 here, don't you? If you're not getting it, you may need to up the biological load, or pee in the system.

Hey. I like your meter.

 

[ttystikk]

I'm following along with the specific purpose odd learning what good numbers are so I can replicate them.

 

[ThePreacher]

Hmm... I was going to comment that B- is hard to get, but your photos seem to show what could indeed be a B-. Some micronutrients would be in order here, question is how best to introduce them. It's been a LONG time since I've used a bottled product, and I can't remember what it is that I have downstairs, it's reddish/pink, soluble, worked pretty well last time I used it some years ago. Now I use stuff like Azomite and volcanic rock dusts, but I honestly think those may take too long to become available to be of use to you here.

I also believe that you actually want readable NO3 here, don't you? If you're not getting it, you may need to up the biological load, or pee in the system.

Hey. I like your meter.

As I am not seeing any Nitrate that means the plant is using all the available nutrients.
But would not the plant be over fertilized if there were too much of it ?
I'm not saying that I do not want more, but would the plant just drink what it is supposed to, and not a drop more ? =)

I will rather add more fish. Something about pissing on my fish I can't really wrap my head around.

I am also thinking of changing the food, but then I think I need to take out some of the fish types. Hard to find a specific fish food that is super good but also works for different types. Or maybe the other fish simply will not eat what is not for them.

It is the Guardian from Blue Lab - Australian company if I remember correctly. Quite pricey.

 

[GanjaAL]

Duckweed. A living plant that feeds the fish without adding nitrates to the water. Just a thought.

 

[ttystikk]

Nice meter. I have the portable version, myself- one's results can only be as good as one's instruments.

In a properly running aquaponic system, N levels are low to non existent because plants soak it up immediately. This from a couple of different people who run fish farming operations, one of whom also had an aquaponic setup.

 

[ThePreacher]

Added some better pictures of the Boron issues.

This is two of the other plants that are not affected. The stem is almost all green:


And this is the one that is. Keep in mind that even tho the stem looks thinner than the ones that are not affected, it's just thinner all the way. Like I was saying, it had a bad childhood.


Also updated the close ups:

 

[ThePreacher]

Duckweed. A living plant that feeds the fish without adding nitrates to the water. Just a thought.

This is also a good feed for goldfish ?
Do you know what kind of nutrient duckweed provides vs regular fish feed ?

Nice meter. I have the portable version, myself- one's results can only be as good as one's instruments.

In a properly running aquaponic system, N levels are low to non existent because plants soak it up immediately. This from a couple of different people who run fish farming operations, one of whom also had an aquaponic setup.

Yeah, it works pretty well. I have a electric toothbrush that I use from time to time to clean the pH probe, works as a charm!

I actually think that I will need to add lots of fish to see a big bump in nitrate, because as we all know, Cannabis are big drinkers! :cigar:

 

[GanjaAL]

It provides protien which is what they eat. Here in Cali people use if for talapia in which they farm to eat.

 

[Seamaiden]

Preacher, let's assume that the plants are indeed using all the available NO3. The only issue I see with that, and this is based on my own limited understanding of plants, is that they also need NH4. The thing is, if your nitrifiers have kicked in, they may be processing all the available NH4 into NO3. This is where my own knowledge level drops off quite a bit, because I don't quite understand the interplay of NH4:NO3 and how that affects Brix (sugar) levels within the plant, which is generally a pretty decent indicator of plant health (unless it's high first thing in the morning). I need to read a lot more Hugh Lovel (sp?)!

It's occurred to me that you may also be able to incorporate Tubifex worms, or maybe bloodworms, into your system. They would be both fish food and feeders, creating a bit more of a complete cycle. I wouldn't want goldies eating too much, especially that black moor, but green veggies like green peas squeezed out of their skins helps in that regard. It's the fancies that are most prone to stuff like swim bladder problems, or constipation, the Comets are just a few steps away from being wild fish.

I can't get the idea of using ugly-ass pacu for an aquaponic system out of my head. Why? I suck at cooking tilapia (which are really just a big cichlid).

Duckweed. A living plant that feeds the fish without adding nitrates to the water. Just a thought.

Hi Ganja! Glad to see you posting, hope to see more. :) The plants, including duckweed, should be using NO3, not adding it back. They may also use NH4 (ammonia), but I don't think they use NO2 (nitrite).

 

[urbanfog]

lol, when I lived in Denver I had a 100 gal tank with some big ass red bellied pacu's and they would eat whole oreo cookies lol

Sorry off topic, back to the show:)

 

[ttystikk]

Added some better pictures of the Boron issues.

This is two of the other plants that are not affected. The stem is almost all green:And this is the one that is. Keep in mind that even tho the stem looks thinner than the ones that are not affected, it's just thinner all the way. Like I was saying, it had a bad childhood.
View attachment 334332View attachment 334334View attachment 334335

Also updated the close ups:
]View attachment 334345View attachment 334346View attachment 334347

Good need is it doesn't look like bugs, but use a microscope to be certain.

 

[ttystikk]

Preacher, let's assume that the plants are indeed using all the available NO3. The only issue I see with that, and this is based on my own limited understanding of plants, is that they also need NH4. The thing is, if your nitrifiers have kicked in, they may be processing all the available NH4 into NO3. This is where my own knowledge level drops off quite a bit, because I don't quite understand the interplay of NH4:NO3 and how that affects Brix (sugar) levels within the plant, which is generally a pretty decent indicator of plant health (unless it's high first thing in the morning). I need to read a lot more Hugh Lovel (sp?)!

It's occurred to me that you may also be able to incorporate Tubifex worms, or maybe bloodworms, into your system. They would be both fish food and feeders, creating a bit more of a complete cycle. I wouldn't want goldies eating too much, especially that black moor, but green veggies like green peas squeezed out of their skins helps in that regard. It's the fancies that are most prone to stuff like swim bladder problems, or constipation, the Comets are just a few steps away from being wild fish.

I can't get the idea of using ugly-ass pacu for an aquaponic system out of my head. Why? I suck at cooking tilapia (which are really just a big cichlid).

Hi Ganja! Glad to see you posting, hope to see more. :) The plants, including duckweed, should be using NO3, not adding it back. They may also use NH4 (ammonia), but I don't think they use NO2 (nitrite).

Tell me more about ugly pacu. Talk about encouraging people to keep their hands to themselves!

 

[ThePreacher]

Good need is it doesn't look like bugs, but use a microscope to be certain.

I have some bugs, going to the grow store to pick up my mites later today.
Most of the bugs I have have wings, and I think they all are Fungus Gnats, but I have also seen some smaller crawlers, around 0.8 - 1 mm long, kind of transparent. Will release the wrath of the Hypoaspis mites tomorrow.
On my command, unleash hell!

 

[ThePreacher]

Preacher, let's assume that the plants are indeed using all the available NO3. The only issue I see with that, and this is based on my own limited understanding of plants, is that they also need NH4. The thing is, if your nitrifiers have kicked in, they may be processing all the available NH4 into NO3. This is where my own knowledge level drops off quite a bit, because I don't quite understand the interplay of NH4:NO3 and how that affects Brix (sugar) levels within the plant, which is generally a pretty decent indicator of plant health (unless it's high first thing in the morning). I need to read a lot more Hugh Lovel (sp?)!

It's occurred to me that you may also be able to incorporate Tubifex worms, or maybe bloodworms, into your system. They would be both fish food and feeders, creating a bit more of a complete cycle. I wouldn't want goldies eating too much, especially that black moor, but green veggies like green peas squeezed out of their skins helps in that regard. It's the fancies that are most prone to stuff like swim bladder problems, or constipation, the Comets are just a few steps away from being wild fish.

I can't get the idea of using ugly-ass pacu for an aquaponic system out of my head. Why? I suck at cooking tilapia (which are really just a big cichlid).

Yeeaah.. I think you got my knowledge base covered as well.
I am going to start tinkering a lot with the system, in bigger scale.
Got the new house we was looking at, big house with a huge garden in Barcelona.

The Black Moor took its last swim today, found it flouting around in the current, with the comets strangely surrounding it like a wake or something. I think it was the bouncing pH that took care of him. I try not to adjust it too much, but as the system behaves I really do not have much choice in the matter.

.2-.3 drop each day, and with a rise in PPM of 10-30 a day it is hard to not use the regular tap water to adjust the pH also, since it is so rich in solids.

Will take a trip to the HydroStore to find some pH up that works with AP.
The upcoming weeks I have lot of other stuff to take care of so I really just want to complete this run in a simple but effective manner.

 

[ttystikk]

I have some bugs, going to the grow store to pick up my mites later today.
Most of the bugs I have have wings, and I think they all are Fungus Gnats, but I have also seen some smaller crawlers, around 0.8 - 1 mm long, kind of transparent. Will release the wrath of the Hypoaspis mites tomorrow.
On my command, unleash hell!

Those are likely fungus gnats- and fungus gnat larvae.

The bugs I was concerned about would be on the leaves, directly causing the chewed look. It looks like you have some sort of deficiency, maybe not enough mass of fish to provide for adequate nutrition?