Aquaponics - Let fish be your Nutrient!

[ttystikk]

Well, maybe not all fish, but what I meant is to ask is whether any fish that can be grown is suitable for aquaponics.

I'm not getting you about the symbiotic AC system. Can you clarify?

-- iCultivate --

There are apparently quite a few varieties of fish that are particularly amenable to our purposes, including but not limited to pacu, tilapia, trout, carp, bass, catfish and more. One important decision to make early is whether you want to maintain warm water fish or cold. Warm varieties tend to be more productive, yield more, eat more and of course add more ammonia and such to the system. They can also be expensive to keep warm in the winter.

Again, I'm parroting back information I've gathered second hand. The hands on person to talk to about aquatics is @Seamaiden ...so I tag thee, in hopes that she shall appear and enlighten all of us!

Back to the AC part. I'm choosing a warm water system, with the tank water to hover around 60 at a bare minimum in the winter, and warm into the 70s F in summer. I believe I can keep the tank water warmer than 60 all winter, because I already employ an integrated water cooling system, connected to a 2 Ton chiller. What's the connection? Well, water- the chiller's job is to remove heat from a closed circuit water system that chills RDWC as well as cools and dehumidifies the growroom.

If I run the return from those circuits through a water to water heat exchanger, passing it across water coming inside from the fishtank, then the excess heat ends up in the nutrient water, just as it's coming inside to do all of its filtration, nitrification and purification duties. This encourages those processes, and the now chilled return water in the cooling system returns to the reservoir, ready to be used again. Only when the water outside is not sufficiently cold will the indoor chiller unit chug to life and actively cool the circuit.

Meanwhile, that warm water passes through the entire indoor part of its cycle, now warmed up to its optimal temperature. It's then returned to the tank outside, keeping it and fish warm without the use of a heating element!

We'll cover walking on water another time, lol.

 

[Seamaiden]

You've pretty much got the sum of what I know with regard to aquaponics--remember, my work in trade was ornamentals, not consumables. I'm going to be spending a *lot* of time on that website, though I'm not ready to drop the dough-ray-mee on their vertical system, there's a lot of information that deals with very specific questions I've had, such as how P is handled in aquaponics.

I'm also curious to see if anyone's aquaponicking crawdaddies. No bones! And even tastier than any fish we could rear. The one problem? Inverts generally generate a very low to almost nil waste load.

 

[ttystikk]

You've pretty much got the sum of what I know with regard to aquaponics--remember, my work in trade was ornamentals, not consumables. I'm going to be spending a *lot* of time on that website, though I'm not ready to drop the dough-ray-mee on their vertical system, there's a lot of information that deals with very specific questions I've had, such as how P is handled in aquaponics.

I'm also curious to see if anyone's aquaponicking crawdaddies. No bones! And even tastier than any fish we could rear. The one problem? Inverts generally generate a very low to almost nil waste load.

Don't drop the coin on their system just yet; they are made by cutting a slot down one side of a square PVC fence post, filling it with a batting material and top drip. I just saved you a whole pile o' cash...

I've read through his blogs to date and they are all fascinating- all the more so because it's happening in and near my hometown!

I found his discussion of what to do about high pH very interesting as well.

I love me some crawdads, I'll just have to put some cover in the bottom of my fish tank so they have places to hide. This was already part of the plan, since I'd like my fish population to breed itself to maintain numbers and keep a variety of sizes.

 

[Seamaiden]

Ah! I thought it was rain gutter material that they'd cabbaged together!

Your bigger problem with the mudpuppies, IME, is that they WILL go after the fish. The fix? Pinch off their claws. They regrow. If you're squeamish about it, get a good pair of kitchen scissors, the kind you'd use to spatchcock a bird (spatchcock = cut out the spine), and just SNIP! Each of the big claws.

I've often thought to myself that it's really too bad a crawdaddy claw has so little meat, because I can see it being a perpetual system otherwise.

 

[neverbreak]

I've often thought to myself that it's really too bad a crawdaddy claw has so little meat, because I can see it being a perpetual system otherwise.

albeit a ruthless n rather heartless one!

neverbreak

 

[ttystikk]

albeit a ruthless n rather heartless one!

neverbreak

No more or less heartless than raising fish for food in the first place...

 

[neverbreak]

No more or less heartless than raising fish for food in the first place...

i respectfully disagree.

in raisin fish ya raise 'em til ya kill 'em, clean n simple. in raisin crawdaddies to continually harvest their claws, yer raisin 'em to lop off a body part, waitin til it grows back n doin it again..and again...and again...until one day they die. for me, i don't see the difference between that and farmin bears for bile. it's a lifetime of pain, not just a swift death at the end.

neverbreak

 

[ttystikk]

i respectfully disagree.

in raisin fish ya raise 'em til ya kill 'em, clean n simple. in raisin crawdaddies to continually harvest their claws, yer raisin 'em to lop off a body part, waitin til it grows back n doin it again..and again...and again...until one day they die. for me, i don't see the difference between that and farmin bears for bile. it's a lifetime of pain, not just a swift death at the end.

neverbreak

A good point. No need to cause lasting suffering.

 

[Seamaiden]

i respectfully disagree.

in raisin fish ya raise 'em til ya kill 'em, clean n simple. in raisin crawdaddies to continually harvest their claws, yer raisin 'em to lop off a body part, waitin til it grows back n doin it again..and again...and again...until one day they die. for me, i don't see the difference between that and farmin bears for bile. it's a lifetime of pain, not just a swift death at the end.

neverbreak

On the surface it does appear to be that way, doesn't it? And you may or may not know that I'm one of those people who can't stand to see or cause suffering.

But, here's the thing--this is taking advantage of a natural feature of the animal. I've done it for years when shipping crawdaddies that are being kept with fish, and if you don't pinch off the big claws (at the joint, just as it would pop off were the animal to get into a battle with another crawdaddy) you're going to end up with a decimated system and lots of dead animals.

Either way, their claws aren't worth removing except to prevent damage/death to each other and other organisms. They're able to feed themselves because the huge claws are for battle only, not feeding. :)

 

[iCultivate]

There are apparently quite a few varieties of fish that are particularly amenable to our purposes, including but not limited to pacu, tilapia, trout, carp, bass, catfish and more. One important decision to make early is whether you want to maintain warm water fish or cold. Warm varieties tend to be more productive, yield more, eat more and of course add more ammonia and such to the system. They can also be expensive to keep warm in the winter.

Again, I'm parroting back information I've gathered second hand. The hands on person to talk to about aquatics is @Seamaiden ...so I tag thee, in hopes that she shall appear and enlighten all of us!

Back to the AC part. I'm choosing a warm water system, with the tank water to hover around 60 at a bare minimum in the winter, and warm into the 70s F in summer. I believe I can keep the tank water warmer than 60 all winter, because I already employ an integrated water cooling system, connected to a 2 Ton chiller. What's the connection? Well, water- the chiller's job is to remove heat from a closed circuit water system that chills RDWC as well as cools and dehumidifies the growroom.

If I run the return from those circuits through a water to water heat exchanger, passing it across water coming inside from the fishtank, then the excess heat ends up in the nutrient water, just as it's coming inside to do all of its filtration, nitrification and purification duties. This encourages those processes, and the now chilled return water in the cooling system returns to the reservoir, ready to be used again. Only when the water outside is not sufficiently cold will the indoor chiller unit chug to life and actively cool the circuit.

Meanwhile, that warm water passes through the entire indoor part of its cycle, now warmed up to its optimal temperature. It's then returned to the tank outside, keeping it and fish warm without the use of a heating element!

We'll cover walking on water another time, lol.

I like your thinking, linking both indoor and outdoor grows into one efficient system. Would love to see something like this a reality. It's got great potential.

-- iCultivate --

 

[ttystikk]

I like your thinking, linking both indoor and outdoor grows into one efficient system. Would love to see something like this a reality. It's got great potential.

-- iCultivate --

If I build it, will they come?

 

[iCultivate]

I'm not sure I follow...

-- iCultivate --

 

[ttystikk]

If I build one of these systems for my house and then attempt to offer my services professionally, will the industry care?

 

[monkeymun]

If I build one of these systems for my house and then attempt to offer my services professionally, will the industry care?

Difficult to say, but sustainable projects are gaining traction and popularity. I imagine there would be a niche for your professional services if it works as you're planning. Go for it Ty, it's a great idea.

 

[ttystikk]

Difficult to say, but sustainable projects are gaining traction and popularity. I imagine there would be a niche for your professional services if it works as you're planning. Go for it Ty, it's a great idea.

If they can't stand the idea of a fully organic natural cycle nutrifying their plants while it takes a chain saw to their light bill, then maybe they just don't need me. Everyone else? The line forms here! :D

 

[monkeymun]

Haha, right on bro!

 

[ttystikk]

Haha, right on bro!

I'm working on a three tiered system; first tier is efficient use of power via chillers and vertical gardening in sealed room. This already pays for itself.

Tier two is the aquaponic cycle, bringing more benefits to the power bill while providing both a totally natural (merely 'organic' seems an inadequate descriptive term) and holistic approach to environment, nutrition and recycled/repetitive use. Adding on greenhouse space or designing purpose built facilities could take advantage of earth sheltering, automated light deprivation and water based heat pump technology to boost efficiency, tolerance to weather extremes and extend growing seasons year 'round.

Tier three is fuel cells running on natural gas to turn the electric 'bill' into an asset. Tier three will ideally start from a clean sheet design, allowing for the build-up of a completely integrated indoor/greenhouse space with all the comforts of indoor gardening and optional sunlight... such a facility would be extremely productive and the operating costs would be a small fraction of the industry norm.

Tier three retrofits would be feasible with open floorplan and the ability to add or create greenhouse space, integrate water based heat pump technology, aquaponics and indoor gardening. This, with the same overall power bill the customer might have originally paid just for heat alone.

 

[neverbreak]

ya reckon by integratin the whole thing, ya might run into trouble? as in, if one part fails, will the whole system collapse? just ponderin...

neverbreak

 

[ttystikk]

ya reckon by integratin the whole thing, ya might run into trouble? as in, if one part fails, will the whole system collapse? just ponderin...

neverbreak

Well, actually the whole thing is pretty fault tolerant. If your fuel cell quits, run on city power until you get it fixed. If your fish die, run organic nutes until the next batch can take over. If it's cold out and you run low on excess heat from grow op/power cogeneration, etc- just run a heater!

If you have a general power outage, designing water systems with lots of little steps maximizes oxygenation with each bucketful of water, keeping everything alive until power can be restored.

Battery backups for small pumps can keep the system fresh and robust all but indefinitely if there is a small auxiliary power source like a generator, solar cell or even human power. Well designed homes actually use less power to remain comfortable, so losing power results in a much smaller change in the environment.

 

[ttystikk]

...and one more thing- if you have fuel cells, how you gonna have a power outage?