Baffled boomer here first timer.

MIGrampaUSA · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
You’re right. The temperature swings in a greenhouse in the winter can be ridiculous. Last February it went from 40° to 107° in the greenhouse in about an hour. Sun pops out from overcast skies, or from behind a stand of trees, and that sun unleashes a lot of energy.

I did look into the propane angle, but this is the first winter I am growing anything in the greenhouse, so had to get things set up in a hurry, and opted for the simplest route, a couple of 750 W electric heaters that I can control separately on timers to give me what I need when I need it. Still challenging to compensate for the sun, etc. but I’m doing my best. And can’t run propane from big tanks here in my state. And cost of 1 pound cylinders adds up fast. I have a small propane heater that I use for emergencies only.

Indoor in the house set up is not a good option for me. But there’s always more than one way to skin a cat, and in the spring I intend to plant a few outdoors camouflaged between rows of corn and tomatoes.

My neighbor puts his in a couple of wagons and wheels them in and out of his garage every day. I'm not 100% sure he is within the law but it won't be me bothering him over it. Not with the ventilation system from my greenhouse powering out the smell of ripening flowers in late September. I don't need that kind of neighbor problems. lol Here we can grow up to 12 plants either inside or outside but outside they are supposed to be out of sight and in a locked enclosure. My greenhouse does that nicely.

Pike · Dec 29, 2021

Hello Bobo, on the more Indica leaning plant, the buds appear to have very little to no resin, curled edges. Is there any aroma other then green? Just looking at the pics looks like russets?
winter on Long Island and from seed, I’d never gues russets, but sure looks like it.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

MIGrampaUSA said:
My neighbor puts his in a couple of wagons and wheels them in and out of his garage every day. I'm not 100% sure he is within the law but it won't be me bothering him over it. Not with the ventilation system from my greenhouse powering out the smell of ripening flowers in late September. I don't need that kind of neighbor problems. lol Here we can grow up to 12 plants either inside or outside but outside they are supposed to be out of sight and in a locked enclosure. My greenhouse does that nicely.

Here in New York they are still trying to figure out all the details of the rules and regulations, but for now it’s three mature and three immature plants allowed per person in a household. Adults over 21 that is. No details of indoor versus outdoor, etc.

But our neighbors are cool, and pretty much know the scoop. They are good peeps and we have a very good relationship, as I give away a lot of vegetables from my garden in the neighborhood. So they will love me. Lol.

haven’t dealt with the smell as yet, but with only two plants, and no ventilation other than to manual roof vents, I am hoping to keep the aroma down to a minimum.

In fact, could you shed some light on something I can’t figure out. The plant I believe is an Indica has buds that our not very prolific in white pistols, have very hardly any trichs yet, and still smell vegetative, while the alleged sativa is full of white hairs, is frosty and smelly.

is that normal?
Does make any sense to you ?
There is more information and pictures in my diary.

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
You’re right. The temperature swings in a greenhouse in the winter can be ridiculous. Last February it went from 40° to 107° in the greenhouse in about an hour. Sun pops out from overcast skies, or from behind a stand of trees, and that sun unleashes a lot of energy.

Have you ever heard of a walipini? It's a kind of underground greenhouse that auto vents to keep it cool or warmer depending on your set point. The great thing is it extends the growing season from a month to year round growing depending on where you live. It's way overkill for what you need, but if you use a couple of the same principles on your existing greenhouse, you can double its efficiency. The great thing is it uses zero electricity.

MIGrampaUSA · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
Here in New York they are still trying to figure out all the details of the rules and regulations, but for now it’s three mature and three immature plants allowed per person in a household. Adults over 21 that is. No details of indoor versus outdoor, etc.

But our neighbors are cool, and pretty much know the scoop. They are good peeps and we have a very good relationship, as I give away a lot of vegetables from my garden in the neighborhood. So they will love me. Lol.

haven’t dealt with the smell as yet, but with only two plants, and no ventilation other than to manual roof vents, I am hoping to keep the aroma down to a minimum.

In fact, could you shed some light on something I can’t figure out. The plant I believe is an Indica has buds that our not very prolific in white pistols, have very hardly any trichs yet, and still smell vegetative, while the alleged sativa is full of white hairs, is frosty and smelly.

is that normal?
Does make any sense to you ?
There is more information and pictures in my diary.

I'm not sure the best answer to your question. It could be a lot of things from the temperature swings, the lower intensity of the sun in the winter time, possibly russets like a previous poster was saying. I didn't notice it but I also don't fully trust my eyes to catch everything. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of this will chime in ...

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
Have you ever heard of a walipini? It's a kind of underground greenhouse that auto vents to keep it cool or warmer depending on your set point. The great thing is it extends the growing season from a month to year round growing depending on where you live. It's way overkill for what you need, but if you use a couple of the same principles on your existing greenhouse, you can double its efficiency. The great thing is it uses zero electricity.

I looked into a lot of options for solar or passive, and my daughter who lives in Albuquerque even sent me information on using water barrels painted black to soak up and then redistribute the heat.
I told her that would work great in New Mexico with blazing sun most of the time, but on Long Island with cloudy weather and where I live surrounded by trees, it wasn’t an option.

But thanks for the advice and information.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

Pike said:
Hello Bobo, on the more Indica leaning plant, the buds appear to have very little to no resin, curled edges. Is there any aroma other then green? Just looking at the pics looks like russets?
winter on Long Island and from seed, I’d never gues russets, but sure looks like it.

Your description is spot on, very little resin, and still smelling green, but I never heard of russets. What are they?

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

I went back to look at your pix again. I see classic signs of over watering. (bottom red) Remember, over watering is not too much at once, it's too often.
I see some whitish spots on some leaves. I marked some with green. Notice how the tops are looking perfect? Some people call it praying, but that is where the plant is at its max grow point. This confirms the watering issue in my mind. The lower leaves are not getting the same amount of light and the excess water is hanging them down. Notice how the stems on the leaves are aimed down? Water heavy. If they were dry, they would be pointing up. Over watering is the number 1 or 2 cause of root rot.

So, I really recommend you use our watering system to avoid these issues going forward.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

MIGrampaUSA said:
I'm not sure the best answer to your question. It could be a lot of things from the temperature swings, the lower intensity of the sun in the winter time, possibly russets like a previous poster was saying. I didn't notice it but I also don't fully trust my eyes to catch everything. I'm sure someone with more knowledge of this will chime in ...

The temperature swings. Who knows? The lower intensity of the sun shouldn’t matter as I have plenty of grow lamps blazing in there for 12 hours, plus whatever the sun contributes to the greenhouse roof. And this has not seemed to have affected the other plant.

As to russets. I still don’t know what they are, so will have to wait for clarification on that. And maybe tomorrow I can go out for a closer look at the plant.

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
As to russets.

Russet Mites. Tiny bugs. They eat your plant. I do see some spots on some leaves, check the pic I posted above.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
I went back to look at your pix again. I see classic signs of over watering. (bottom red) Remember, over watering is not too much, it's too often.
I see some whitish spots on some leaves. I marked some with green. Notice how the tops are looking perfect? Some people call it praying, but that is where the plant is at its max grow point. This confirms the watering issue in my mind. The lower leaves are not getting the same amount of light and the excess water is hanging them down. Notice how the stems on the leaves are aimed down? Water heavy. If they were dry, they would be pointing up. Over watering is the number 1 or 2 cause of root rot.

So, I really recommend you use our watering system to avoid these issues going forward.

I’m not sure which pictures you are referring to and referencing. I’ve posted a lot of pictures all over the place lately. And the plants look very different at different times or different angles.

Is there any way you are able to send me the pictures you are referring to or direct me to where you saw them?

As to the overwatering. I guess it is possible, as I do give them some water every day, but not much. Maybe 8 to 12 ounces. They are in very small pots, and I see very little if any runoff after watering. and those little 11 inch pots dry out so quickly. The one time I decided to let them dry out and not water them for one day, the “indica“ was drooping pathetically. As soon as I watered it it perked back up.

It looked like this the day after I skipped watering it.
So what do you think?

And I still don’t know what the russets are. :-)

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
Russet Mites. Tiny bugs. They eat your plant. I do see some spots on some leaves, check the pic I posted above.

I’m sorry but I don’t see any pic, and I have pressed a few buttons without success, other than getting run around in circles again. I cannot figure this website out yet, but thanks for your help with this matter.

Tiny bugs sounds serious. Definitely got to get to the bottom of it ASAP.

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

Scroll back up. It's a big picture, it takes a min to load.
How are you online? PC? Phone? Tablet? Each one looks a bit different.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
Scroll back up. It's a big picture, it takes a min to load.

OK. I found the picture you were referring to. Is it possible that the lower leaves are bending towards or affected by grow lights that I have under the bench and mounted on the sides facing the plants. Check out this picture of my lighting system. It is probably unconventional but…

I have lettuce, spinach, arugula, etc. growing under the work benches with grow lights that might affect the MJ plants.

As to the overwatering. I gave both plants the same amount of water, and the one on the right, “sativa?” doesn’t seem similarly affected. And I would think that the plant on the left would soak up even more water as it is larger and fuller. And I almost never see water drain from that pot. The soil in that pot is a mixture of 2/3 Vermont Compost Fort Vee organic potting soil, and 1/3 my own compost, with a cup of worm castings thrown in. Should drain very well.
Soil in the other pot was just garden soil reused after just growing peas and then lima beans in that pot.

Quite the head scratcher.

What do you recommend for a watering regime?
And do you think my oddball lighting system could have any affect on the drooping leaf angles, etc.?
Got to get to the bottom of these little bugs though. :-(

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
I looked into a lot of options for solar or passive, and my daughter who lives in Albuquerque even sent me information on using water barrels painted black to soak up and then redistribute the heat.
I told her that would work great in New Mexico with blazing sun most of the time, but on Long Island with cloudy weather and where I live surrounded by trees, it wasn’t an option.

But thanks for the advice and information.

You can pile sand bags around the bottom half, 2 bags thick/wide and that will help even out the temps.
You are adding thermal mass to stabilize it.

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
OK. I found the picture you were referring to. Is it possible that the lower leaves are bending towards or affected by grow lights that I have under the bench and mounted on the sides facing the plants. Check out this picture of my lighting system. It is probably unconventional but…

View attachment 1201348

I have lettuce, spinach, arugula, etc. growing under the work benches with grow lights that might affect the MJ plants.

As to the overwatering. I gave both plants the same amount of water, and the one on the right, “sativa?” doesn’t seem similarly affected. And I would think that the plant on the left would soak up even more water as it is larger and fuller. And I almost never see water drain from that pot. The soil in that pot is a mixture of 2/3 Vermont Compost Fort Vee organic potting soil, and 1/3 my own compost, with a cup of worm castings thrown in. Should drain very well.
Soil in the other pot was just garden soil reused after just growing peas and then lima beans in that pot.

Quite the head scratcher.

What do you recommend for a watering regime?
And do you think my oddball lighting system could have any affect on the drooping leaf angles, etc.?
Got to get to the bottom of these little bugs though. :-(

This is very interesting. I love your setup by the way.
I do not think the lower lights have that much effect, but I just don't know. Maybe a slice of silverfoam for a wall to block those lights from shedding.

Your side lights. I love'em. I was going to something very similar until I heard Bugbee (Dr. Bruce Bugbee, Horticultural Scientist.) say that the increase in production does not justify the increased cost. Since you have them already, might as well use them.

The plants themselves look skinny to me. So much so that they both look sativa-ish. What colors are your lights?

My other question is what's in your soil? I'm an organic guy myself. I had to learn that indoor organic is different from outdoor. Soil is key.

Something is causing them to react badly to proper watering. If it's not lights, it's soil or watering and that's tabled for the moment. You could try looking up your local water department online. They should have your local water report showing what's in it. Copy the report and post it in here so we can see it.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 29, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
You can pile sand bags around the bottom half, 2 bags thick/wide and that will help even out the temps.
You are adding thermal mass to stabilize it.

Greenhouse is too close to the fence on two sides to pile sandbags around. And I have to get in behind and around the greenhouse when we need to stretch a shade cloth over it.

plus it’s too cute to pile up with sandbags. :-)

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 29, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
Greenhouse is too close to the fence on two sides to pile sandbags around. And I have to get in behind and around the greenhouse when we need to stretch a shade cloth over it.

plus it’s too cute to pile up with sandbags. :-)

View attachment 1201380

You could put T-111 over the sandbags.

BoboGrower0813 · Dec 30, 2021

ComfortablyNumb said:
This is very interesting. I love your setup by the way.
I do not think the lower lights have that much effect, but I just don't know. Maybe a slice of silverfoam for a wall to block those lights from shedding.

Your side lights. I love'em. I was going to something very similar until I heard Bugbee (Dr. Bruce Bugbee, Horticultural Scientist.) say that the increase in production does not justify the increased cost. Since you have them already, might as well use them.

The plants themselves look skinny to me. So much so that they both look sativa-ish. What colors are your lights?

My other question is what's in your soil? I'm an organic guy myself. I had to learn that indoor organic is different from outdoor. Soil is key.

Something is causing them to react badly to proper watering. If it's not lights, it's soil or watering and that's tabled for the moment. You could try looking up your local water department online. They should have your local water report showing what's in it. Copy the report and post it in here so we can see it.

The grow lights mounted under the countertops or four other veggies I am growing, and were not intended to have any affect on the MJ. Putting up any barrier between them would make it difficult for me to get in underneath attend them.

I lined the interior of the greenhouse where the MJ is with half inch foil faced insulation. Prevents praying eyes from looking in at a greenhouse lit up like a Christmas tree, and deflects whatever right is being projected from the grow bulbs towards the plants. The half that I left open gets the most sun, and faces our yard and house, so no prying eyes.

The lights I have mounted on the side are 4’ Monios LT8 LED full spectrum 42 W bulbs. Pretty reasonable at $89/6 bulbs, self contained, No baluster, etc. needed, Daisy chain-able, all wiring, switches, and hardware necessary to hang included. Very easy. I figured the more light the better. And at 252W total, not that expensive to run, even at New York electric prices.
The eight overhead lights are 4 foot Phillips 32W F32T8/TL965 deluxe daylight and F32T8/TL930 deluxe soft white fluorescents.

The soil in the pot on the left which I believe is an Indica, is 2/3 Vermont compost Fort Vee organic potting soil, and 1/3 my own compost, plus a cup of worm castings. The pot the other plant on the right, which I believe is a sativa, had previously grown peas, followed by lima beans this past summer. Nothing fancy. And that’s the one with hairy, frosty, and smelly buds. !!! ???

Our water on Long Island is among the best anywhere. Comes from deep aquifers of 10,000 year old sand filtered glacial melt. And I put all the water the MJ gets through a Britta water filter first.

I’m trying.

ComfortablyNumb · Dec 30, 2021

BoboGrower0813 said:
The soil in the pot on the left which I believe is an Indica, is 2/3 Vermont compost Fort Vee organic potting soil, and 1/3 my own compost, plus a cup of worm castings. The pot the other plant on the right, which I believe is a sativa, had previously grown peas, followed by lima beans this past summer. Nothing fancy. And that’s the one with hairy, frosty, and smelly buds. !!! ???

This is what I was looking for. The used soil had MBE's in it, the new stuff does not. MBE's are Microbes, Bacteria, Enzymes. The tip off is that the one with used soil is generating terps (terpines, where the smell comes from) and the other in new soil is not.
You make a good soil, but MJ is a bit more finicky. Add some Recharge and Fish Sh!T to them and watch what happens.
This will add in all the MBE's you need in organics.

Recharge

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