Ballin' On a Budget- THE RECIPE

[SeymourGreen]

Also, just googled Massive as I never heard of it before. Is it similar to Recharge?

 

[Aqua Man]

Also, just googled Massive as I never heard of it before. Is it similar to Recharge?

Nope it has lots of goodies in it including triacontanol

 

[Aqua Man]

I find flavonoids have a lot to do with strain… end of flower environment and dry and cure for the largest impacts

 

[SeymourGreen]

I find flavonoids have a lot to do with strain… end of flower environment and dry and cure for the largest impacts

I agree. Everyone says I just got a dud clone and to start something new but, when I tested for brix, it was extremely low. Now I’m obsessing over if the clone was just a dud or, if it had something to do with the nutes. I’m now running the same clone in organic amended soil to see if that improves the flavor at all but it’s not going that great lol!

 

[Anthem]

I agree. Everyone says I just got a dud clone and to start something new but, when I tested for brix, it was extremely low. Now I’m obsessing over if the clone was just a dud or, if it had something to do with the nutes. I’m now running the same clone in organic amended soil to see if that improves the flavor at all but it’s not going that great lol!

I think you are going to find a complete different flavor and smell profile based on running the same strain in two different media types. At least that was what I found when I did this experiment. I gave cuts to a person of a well known strain, he used just Botanicare veg and bloom. Completely different flavor and smell profile.

 

[Anthem]

I think you are going to find a complete different flavor and smell profile based on running the same strain in two different media types. At least that was what I found when I did this experiment. I gave cuts to a person of a well known strain, he used just Botanicare veg and bloom. Completely different flavor and smell profile.

I think what would be a cool experiment would be to use something like FFOF and a 3 part liquid nutrient line that is good for all media types. Run the same plant in a hydro format and run the same plant in the FFOF and test cannabinol profile between the two.

 

[ezenzyme]

Or outdoor organics. The superior diversity of nutrients and biology is not paralleled in many systems, let alone the sun light and the wind and all these factors that create beautiful outdoor we see. Hosts of microorganisms, bacteria, fungi exuding enzymes and humic substances, blooming and feeding the macro organism, feeding the fractal of biology created by the carbon currency your cannabis provides. Also why corporate weed is all starting to taste the same, because its been all dumbed down to a salt regimen based purely on cost effectiveness. Drip. Bontanicare. Jacks. Maxsea. maxi crop. I would love to see cuts grown by all growers in all different conditions and tested neck and neck. Brix levels def do not create sweeter weed. Sulfur, micro nutrients, intense sun, carbohydrates. Growing plants to max potential, (regardless of system) so that the natural expression of the plant can come forward, proper feed levels at all times. Followed by a flush depending. I dont flush my outdoor organics. No need, they taste and smoke amazing I am proud of what i feed.

 

[SeymourGreen]

@ezenzyme. What are you currently feeding? I’m still running the recipe on a few clones in my veg tent as well as my own salt formulations and ratios on a few others. In my flower tent I’m running Dr Earth dry amendments.

 

[Aqua Man]

Or outdoor organics. The superior diversity of nutrients and biology is not paralleled in many systems, let alone the sun light and the wind and all these factors that create beautiful outdoor we see. Hosts of microorganisms, bacteria, fungi exuding enzymes and humic substances, blooming and feeding the macro organism, feeding the fractal of biology created by the carbon currency your cannabis provides. Also why corporate weed is all starting to taste the same, because its been all dumbed down to a salt regimen based purely on cost effectiveness. Drip. Bontanicare. Jacks. Maxsea. maxi crop. I would love to see cuts grown by all growers in all different conditions and tested neck and neck. Brix levels def do not create sweeter weed. Sulfur, micro nutrients, intense sun, carbohydrates. Growing plants to max potential, (regardless of system) so that the natural expression of the plant can come forward, proper feed levels at all times. Followed by a flush depending. I dont flush my outdoor organics. No need, they taste and smoke amazing I am proud of what i feed.

I dont really disagree with alot of this on the microbiology side… but the comment of salts is just false. Salts are a form of nutrients and even organic nutrients are broken down into salts and eventually ions… when you dissolve a mineral salt in water its no longer in salt form but ionic form. The minerals MUST be in ionic form to be taken up by plants.

A salt is simply a description of the form nutrients are in…it does not mean sodium or synthetic or manufactured and happens naturally as well as can be done synthetically

A nitrate is a nitrate no matter how it was broken down and thats simply a fact.

like light a photon is a photon its a source of energy supplied in different spectrums…. no matter if its from the sun or a light source

But i do agree that the benefits of bacteria and fungi produced enzymes. metabolites and symbiotic relationships are beneficial and influential. But thats not to say you cant have them in an indoor grow

 

[ezenzyme]

Your so right aqua! I dont mean to rag on salts, and i totally understand how organic plants eat the exact same nitrogen as all outer plants, really what i am saying is that when these salt feed regimens are dumed down a lot of them simply focusing on NPK and not beyond, they grow beautiful plants but they mostly look and taste the same. The issue isnt the Salts, its the lack of everything else. Also when a plant is eating from the soil not from liquid feeds i feel that the plant can control the level of NPK and everything else that it wants, communicating with the living soil food web. Its not the N its the process to get it, its the degradation the re assimilation and enzyme catalyzing the reaction. Your going to be hard pressed to have any grow with out biology indoors, but the biology is the real key. Whats your definition? How alive is ALIVE?
Aqua your on point, i think what i am trying to say is its easy to lose sight of the plant and only focus on NPK and a few basic trace elements, we see this more and more in cannabis because its based on a price point.
Indoor salty weed is amazing when done right, not trying to knock anything. A nitrate is a nitrate, but when that nitrate come in the form of chicken poop or a bottle of ammonium nitrate its two very different things. While the N may be the same in the end when its eaten the process to get the N from chicken its so much more diverse, loaded with all kinds of stuff. Trace elements, micro nutrients, fats, acids, bacteria, silica, carbohydrates, and a host of things that will be eaten consumed broken down catalyzed changed and swapped for carbon currency.
I think its not only the biology but the access to diversity of all food stocks and the use of raw and dry foods allow for the biology to bang.

Currently i am outside and just did my last top dressing of the season. That consisted of Malted barley, crab meal, fish bone meal, sea bird and bat and i am feeding home made LABS. I like to run manily top dressings and some teas, every 10 days a new scratch every scratch formulated for the stage of growth they are in.

 

[Aqua Man]

Your so right aqua! I dont mean to rag on salts, and i totally understand how organic plants eat the exact same nitrogen as all outer plants, really what i am saying is that when these salt feed regimens are dumed down a lot of them simply focusing on NPK and not beyond, they grow beautiful plants but they mostly look and taste the same. The issue isnt the Salts, its the lack of everything else. Also when a plant is eating from the soil not from liquid feeds i feel that the plant can control the level of NPK and everything else that it wants, communicating with the living soil food web. Its not the N its the process to get it, its the degradation the re assimilation and enzyme catalyzing the reaction. Your going to be hard pressed to have any grow with out biology indoors, but the biology is the real key. Whats your definition? How alive is ALIVE?
Aqua your on point, i think what i am trying to say is its easy to lose sight of the plant and only focus on NPK and a few basic trace elements, we see this more and more in cannabis because its based on a price point.
Indoor salty weed is amazing when done right, not trying to knock anything. A nitrate is a nitrate, but when that nitrate come in the form of chicken poop or a bottle of ammonium nitrate its two very different things. While the N may be the same in the end when its eaten the process to get the N from chicken its so much more diverse, loaded with all kinds of stuff. Trace elements, micro nutrients, fats, acids, bacteria, silica, carbohydrates, and a host of things that will be eaten consumed broken down catalyzed changed and swapped for carbon currency.
I think its not only the biology but the access to diversity of all food stocks and the use of raw and dry foods allow for the biology to bang.

Currently i am outside and just did my last top dressing of the season. That consisted of Malted barley, crab meal, fish bone meal, sea bird and bat and i am feeding home made LABS. I like to run manily top dressings and some teas, every 10 days a new scratch every scratch formulated for the stage of growth they are in.

Yeah i think with the fairly recent legalization we will see more and more studies to back a lot of that up. Many companies are now doing a lot of research on the most beneficial microbe mixes that play well together.

I think your bang on NPK and other nutrient ratios are still misguided in flower and they only go so far.

Yeah the chicken poop is beneficial in an organic style grow but would be an issue in say hydro.

basically with plants the media or the soil is the stomach is for us. So having healthy media is important

 

[sambapati]

If only jacks distributed their gear to Aust id give it a go...kicks dirt..starts mumbling to himself..

Sorry Gilligan

 

[ExNavyInSTL]

I was teaching myself how to use Hydro Buddy to compare the common 3-2-1 components and their elemental PPMs.

The one marked 3-2-1 is all the ingredients combined. The rest are straight forward.

By all means, fact-check me. Like I said, I taught myself today. I used the amounts listed by Jack's.

One thing that did catch my attention is the 1-to-2 weeks of "Bloom" doesn't have any calcium.

This contridicts the Bill Farthing Ballin' on a Budget philosophy of bumping up calcium at the transition to flower.

Looking at my notes on this thread, he says "At transition, you can bump the increased calcium intake at 0.2-0.4g/gallon of calcium acetate."

He also said, "Calcium is most important at transition going into flower."

Another comment, "Transition is also the perfect time for a calcium application, which is when it requires it the most in it's life cycle. It revs up the plants metabolism for flower and prevents light tops. I suggest calcium acetate, calcium EDTA or Metalosate calcium."

One more, "Calcium needs are highest at transition. Try metalosate calcium, calcium EDTA or acetate foliar or drench."

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

I was teaching myself how to use Hydro Buddy to compare the common 3-2-1 components and their elemental PPMs.

The one marked 3-2-1 is all the ingredients combined. The rest are straight forward.

By all means, fact-check me. Like I said, I taught myself today. I used the amounts listed by Jack's.

One thing that did catch my attention is the 1-to-2 weeks of "Bloom" doesn't have any calcium.

This contridicts the Bill Farthing Ballin' on a Budget philosophy of bumping up calcium at the transition to flower.

Looking at my notes on this thread, he says "At transition, you can bump the increased calcium intake at 0.2-0.4g/gallon of calcium acetate."

He also said, "Calcium is most important at transition going into flower."

Another comment, "Transition is also the perfect time for a calcium application, which is when it requires it the most in it's life cycle. It revs up the plants metabolism for flower and prevents light tops. I suggest calcium acetate, calcium EDTA or Metalosate calcium."

One more, "Calcium needs are highest at transition. Try metalosate calcium, calcium EDTA or acetate foliar or drench."

So I've used Jack's bloom in two grows and, personally, won't use it again until I find a way to add calcium into the mix.

Both of the grows I've used it during the first week of flower, the plants showed various degrees of calcium deficiency or at least what appeared to be a calcium deficiency.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

So I've used Jack's bloom in two grows and, personally, won't use it again until I find a way to add calcium into the mix.

Both of the grows I've used it during the first week of flower, the plants showed various degrees of calcium deficiency or at least what appeared to be a calcium deficiency.

What are you doing during the first week now?

 

[Anthem]

So I've used Jack's bloom in two grows and, personally, won't use it again until I find a way to add calcium into the mix.

Both of the grows I've used it during the first week of flower, the plants showed various degrees of calcium deficiency or at least what appeared to be a calcium deficiency.

Take a look at Calcium cloride

 

[3 balls]

I'm technologically disabled so I doubt I will ever even attempt hydrobuddy. I'm having good luck using kelp and the flowering cal mag thru week 4 as well as kelp throughout veg.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

What are you doing during the first week now?

Currently I'm just sticking with the Jack's 3-2-1 and I haven't had any of the calcium issues. I can't say for certain what the difference in the outcome will be as the run that is just Jack's 3-2-1 straight through is wrapping up week 7 of flower.

The two grows where Bloom was used in the first weeks of flower often had various other issues throughout flower. (Etho's GMO Zkittlez and an IHG Slurricane) But did have some incredibly frosty leaves/early bud by week 2. By the end of the grow the fan leaves had resin shooting out of the stems. This could have been just the pheno's, but all 3 plants showed the same frostiness. 3 plants under an HLG Scorpion Diablo produced just over 550 grams of flower. So not quite 1gram/watt. I think that is likely what got hurt the most.

The grow now (Etho's GMO Zkittlez, same strain, different pheno's) is looking solid. One pheno is showing resin production on par or better than the bloom batch, but doesn't quite have the density I'm after. Another Pheno is straight stacked with some softball sized flowers but is lacking in the frost department. The last pheno is a mix of the two, so that's what I'm hoping for. I'm sure the last 5 weeks or so will really start to show the extra health the plants coming through.

 

[enzo647]

Add a soluble silica like Grow Genius or Grotek Gro-Silic and you will have a solid lineup start to finish.

While I use powders when possible, Mr. Fulvic is a liquid to retain amino/organic acids and soluble silica must be formulated as a liquid as well. They are all concentrates, so you are shipping as little water as possible.

Hey Bill, thanks for this thread. Was curious if you have seen side by side results with GG mono vs power si

 

[farroutman2003]

So after finishing a grow and finally being able to try this out... i just flipped to Flower 2 days ago and couldn't be more happy. No issues at all with anything. I've gone light this run as a first try (using 4 gal res quantities but using 6 gallons of RO.) EC comes out at 1350-1400. PH is perfect without adjusting at 5.7. I've checked this after a couple days in the resevoir and at most has gone up to 5.8. Res is steadily bubbled and stirred. just for clarity i'm only using the 321 with the fulvic and Silicon. Will update again as flowering starts.