Best Fert for the very best Taste in Coco?

[ibTheMan]

i use adjusted tap water (my standard tap water is 7.6ph, <100ppm's.
my coco is sunshine #4 w/30% perlite added, i water WTW.

 

[Azzazal]

chempak 2 for veg and chepak 4 for flowering. no boosters required and a bit of epson salts if desired.

most likely the cheapest way to grow and certainly tastes great at the end.

 

[leadsled]

chemically speaking how do final flush products "break the bond" between minerals and the media? We are told that, but if it is true then someone should be able to explain in in scientific terms.

Manipulating pH works by taking advantage of nutrient solubility at different pHs...e.g. I always start my flush with a couple of days of pH at 5-5.2 (using sulfuric acid) to get the P out of the media. Then I switch to a pH of 5.8 with citric acid as the pH down to let the plant keep all elements mobile...or at least most.

Fortunately for us Ca is very hard to translocate in the plant. I say fortunately because without Ca in the flowers we would not be able to get complete combustion and we would get black ash (based on work done in the tobacco industry...Mg also works). So me, I like to keep feeding Ca until the bitter end.

Personally I think you end up with the best taste when you use a nute that matches the tissue samples of the plant the closest. That is, you feed it what it needs and not much more.

Having said that my personal preference would be organics over mineral salt nutes. I find the taste more complex and satisfying.

Wish my memory was worse. Make me wonder about your statement.

Did you already test out this "theroy"?

I remember you making a comment in the coco flush thread.

After reading how true_grit uses calcium (calplex) to the end. Then on 12-22 you posted you have a new trial to run.

Now it is a week later and have already did a run harvested and tested it out?



How were you able to conduct that test and conclude your calcium theroy so quickly?

If it is only a theroy only then fair enough, but comes across like you already have tested it out.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[waywardson]

I use a 5-12-26 hydro special along with CaNO3 as my nutes. In the past I have either a) done a one or two week flush depending on how hard I have fed or b) at 4 weeks out removed the CaNO3 (to reduce N in the final product). The second method produced the smoothest taste but the leaves would not only fade to yellow they would start dying...that crinkly edge thing along with some actual dead fan leaves.

My thinking was that killing the plant in an attempt to get everything else out could not be good for yield or potency...although it is great for taste. I read some stuff from the tobacco industry about getting their product to burn properly...for complete combustion of carbon they claim you either need Ca or Mg at decent levels in the leaf, if you lack both of those a white burning ash will not occur.

The problem for me was where to get a water soluble source of Ca. Turns CalPlex is one although there may also be some amino chelated Ca out there.

So...to answer your question. Yes I have finished a plant now with Ca. Dried completely and smoked it...no. I apologize for that...should have waited until I smoked it to say something. It does prevent the crinkly, dead edges while allowing the plant to fade.

This plant was also never fed above an EC of 1.2 so a lot of flush was not needed to get it to fade.

But yea...you are right. I should run plants until 4 weeks out and then replace the CaNO3 with a chelated Ca and wait until I have smoked them before saying anything else.

 

[Z-ro]

Sunshine the brand makes a bagged coco, Sunshine#4 is peat moss as stated before, Ive used both and think they are good soild products on a more economical scale. In coco I personally favor Canna nutes, but PBP is hard to beat when it comes to taste/smell in most any application. You should sort out whether or not you are actually growing in coco, or Sunshine#4 for best results tho:passingjoint:

 

[waywardson]

Yea...Sunshine's coco product is Just Coir. The number 4 mix is peat with some amendments.

 

[true grit]

wayward- flush agents are just heavy chelates of different kinds.

and fwiw- still flushing with cal and seeing better results doing so than without. or at least a more even fade, smoother flush, less necrosis.

So far in coco ive only used canna, AN and some organics. AN seems to taste just fine, and as i refine the regimen and re-run a few strains, the results and taste are getting better for sure.

 

[justiceman]

I read some stuff from the tobacco industry about getting their product to burn properly...for complete combustion of carbon they claim you either need Ca or Mg at decent levels in the leaf, if you lack both of those a white burning ash will not occur.

That's pretty interesting. I also encountered crispy dieing leaves after flushing a few weeks in coco. I had flushed about that time in a soil grow previously and I got a nice even yellow fade without dieing leaves until the bitter end. Could this have possibly been because of the Cal/mag levels left in the soil(probably dolomite)? Interesting stuff here. Do you have a link or something that could point me in the direction of what the tobacco industry said?

wayward- flush agents are just heavy chelates of different kinds.

and fwiw- still flushing with cal and seeing better results doing so than without. or at least a more even fade, smoother flush, less necrosis.

So far in coco ive only used canna, AN and some organics. AN seems to taste just fine, and as i refine the regimen and re-run a few strains, the results and taste are getting better for sure.

What is fwiw? Anyway so you also flush your coco with Cal? This is very interesting. This might become another test for my experiment plant.

 

[Cannanugget]

Canna

 

[leadsled]

I use a 5-12-26 hydro special along with CaNO3 as my nutes. In the past I have either a) done a one or two week flush depending on how hard I have fed or b) at 4 weeks out removed the CaNO3 (to reduce N in the final product). The second method produced the smoothest taste but the leaves would not only fade to yellow they would start dying...that crinkly edge thing along with some actual dead fan leaves.

My thinking was that killing the plant in an attempt to get everything else out could not be good for yield or potency...although it is great for taste. I read some stuff from the tobacco industry about getting their product to burn properly...for complete combustion of carbon they claim you either need Ca or Mg at decent levels in the leaf, if you lack both of those a white burning ash will not occur.

The problem for me was where to get a water soluble source of Ca. Turns CalPlex is one although there may also be some amino chelated Ca out there.

So...to answer your question. Yes I have finished a plant now with Ca. Dried completely and smoked it...no. I apologize for that...should have waited until I smoked it to say something. It does prevent the crinkly, dead edges while allowing the plant to fade.

This plant was also never fed above an EC of 1.2 so a lot of flush was not needed to get it to fade.

But yea...you are right. I should run plants until 4 weeks out and then replace the CaNO3 with a chelated Ca and wait until I have smoked them before saying anything else.

Thanks appreciate your sharing. Agree about not killing the plant. I like to know all the details I can. I like to also evaluate and test and share. Love the details.

and fwiw- still flushing with cal and seeing better results doing so than without. or at least a more even fade, smoother flush, less necrosis.

So far in coco ive only used canna, AN and some organics. AN seems to taste just fine, and as i refine the regimen and re-run a few strains, the results and taste are getting better for sure.

Thanks for sharing. I appreciate your feedback.

 

[chillsmoker]

I ve got a 50/50 sunshine just coir and foxfarm ocean forest mix. I run the humboldt nutrients organic lineup and have had some great tasting buds, killer color, and sticky icky! You get the best of both worlds with the coco and the soil

 

[Buddy Flowers]

good call i think i'll try that. thanks smoker

 

[ibTheMan]

I ve got a 50/50 sunshine just coir and foxfarm ocean forest mix. I run the humboldt nutrients organic lineup and have had some great tasting buds, killer color, and sticky icky! You get the best of both worlds with the coco and the soil

The new deal way some have been do n it arond here(im going to try on some) is chemy frets the first half of flower'n then organic ferts for the second half, flush then plain PH adjusted water w/B'Cuzz Flavor. tried some and it tasted good, plus you get better yields over organics the whole time.

 

[leadsled]

Dowh, Sorry did not share my favorite.... Organics for the win.

good call i think i'll try that. thanks smoker

Yeah you should try that!~ But for you, I recommend bud candy! Cause your posts are so sweet!

 

[omk2teg]

Does bud candy leave the same flavor no matter what the stain is? or will it help the plant develope its own flovor more intensly?

 

[UnitedWeStand]

Canna coco + Canna nutes + H@G drip clean + 10 day flush = perfection !

Works every time, Canna nutes and Canna coco, pretty hard to fuck it up if you ask me. :character0029:

 

[bloads]

Canna coco + Canna nutes + H@G drip clean + 10 day flush = perfection !

Works every time, Canna nutes and Canna coco, pretty hard to fuck it up if you ask me. :character0029:

How long do you use the Drip Clean for, up till flush?

 

[harley34]

those that flushed with calmag, what did you think?

 

[crom]

Interesting indeed. I think that IME soilless mixes flush easier than soil/soilless mixes due to the slower releasing type of ferts supplied in soil. I guess what I mean is coco/soilless mixes without anything added other than liquid nutes would in theory be easier because all you are attempting to strip away YOU added. I understand that "starter nutes/supps" are used up in a few weeks, but IME it seems I wouldn't get as good a fade/flush with soil based mediums. Since switching to coco/peat/coir based mediums such as Roots Organics Soilless Mix, and more recently Sunshine Advanced Mix #4. By the way from what I have heard around here the "SS #4 bale" isn't as good as the SA#4. So yeah, when I flushed with PHed tap in these type mixes I saw a huge fade compared to the soil mediums. I want to try that Cal flush technique. What are the ratios that you are using in the flushes? Do you flush initially with that Ca then go to plain near the end to get the cal back out last minute? Hope that makes sense lol.

Does using a Ca/Mg/Fe such as GO CalMag+ benefit, or do you obtain a specific Ca only product?

Cheers,
Crom

 

[Crysmatic]

fatman posted this about flushing:

Organic fertilizers (fish fertilizer, manure) applied foliar usually give the best flavor, but that is due to residual on the plants surface not due to plant uptake. Sulfur is generally never in shortage so it usually is ignored as far as flavor. It is evident when sulfur is defficient because it cause a general yellow of all foliage, especially new foliage. Phosphorus imparts a chemical burming bite, magneisum and potash cause a sweet taste. High nitrogen means a chlorophly taste will usually predominate. Consider which nutrients are most mobile within the plant, Nitrogen and Phosphorus. They are what is lowered by flushing. The flushing diminishes the bite, dark ash and green taste. Calcium is not mobile and magnesium and potash are not highly mobile.

fatman

warwardson: following big mike's phosphorus myth, I came up with floranova grow as nearly the ideal bloom fert for hashplant...so if that helps with flush and taste...

i've made some fertilizer for a couple of patients, and high magnesium made their buds "very stinky with high resin production." you generally need to double the magnesium ppm when using commercial fertilizers. bud candy/sweet are just epsom salts.

clearex is just white sugar. it basically raises ppm without having salts which the plant can absorb.

what about mild nute solution? kind of like the hair of the dog after weeks of overfeeding...