BHO Purging Method

[LittleDabbie]

^^^ That actually depends on the glass .. if its borosilicate ie pre 1970s pyrex its not gonna shatter no matter how many times you heat it.. how ever if you using post 1970's pyrex its not boro anymore its cheaper soda-lime that shit will explode in your oven..

Boro was made to be abused soda lime was not.. Also to clear up any confusion Pyrex is actually a brand name of kitchenware i don't think there in the dessicator business, Borosilicate glass the same as what your bong and bowls and ect are made of is what a glass dessicator not made in china SHOULD be made of. There built to withstand heating and cooling. They were made for applications such as this.. Degassing....Theres also Grades of Boro A B C... Anyway...

and even @3-4% with a hot water bath that most people use ( my self in the past included ) contaminate there product with the vapor from the hot water the butane propane and whatever else is in the can is not only taking it off yer fresh plant material till thats depleted but also the vapor from the hot water bath.. so at a max of 4% even thats still gonna produce by the time your done a pile of sticky ass tar or trapped butane shatter.

 

[squiggly]

^^^ That actually depends on the glass .. if its borosilicate ie pre 1970s pyrex its not gonna shatter no matter how many times you heat it.. how ever if you using post 1970's pyrex its not boro anymore its cheaper soda-lime that shit will explode in your oven..

Boro was made to be abused soda lime was not..

That's correct. The reason this is bad advice, generally, is that most folks will go out and buy a pyrex dish from the supermarket and blow their oil up all over their griddle using your methodology. This will not happen with a hot water bath.

and even @3-4% with a hot water bath that most people use ( my self in the past included ) contaminate there product with the vapor from the hot water the butane propane and whatever else is in the can is not only taking it off yer fresh plant material till thats depleted but also the vapor from the hot water bath.. so at a max of 4% even thats still gonna produce by the time your done a pile of sticky ass tar or trapped butane shatter.

I'm sorry, but I must correct you. You will absorb that 3-4% of water into the butane no matter what you do unless you're in 0% humidity. Hygroscopic is often said to mean "water loving". Not water liking, not water wanting to chill with. The shit LOVES water. It will drag it out of the air rapidly, well before you're able to purge butane out completely. Cannabinoids are also highly hygroscopic and will pull their maximum solubility of water out of the air whether you like it or not.

In other words: This is not something you can avoid by removing a hot water bath from the process. The only way to do it is to be in a 0% humidity environment. If you are in such an environment then it makes sense to avoid the water bath step. However, for most people they will gain zero benefit by doing this.

With both of these things in mind, it's easier to make a simple water bath then it is to dessicate the air completely and go on the hunt for antique cookware in the general case.

That being said, I prefer to just let the butane boil off on it's own--and then I tag it with a heat gun before a vac purge. Then I repeat those two steps for awhile until I'm satisfied--and you know what?

There's still butane and water in there, even after I'm satisfied.

My years of lab experience using instrumentation specifically designed to and attuned for removing solvents (and going on to test the material which has had solvents stripped in NMRs) tell me this.

No matter how good your process is, you're always leaving trace amounts in there at the very least--and that's using the best methods known to man for this process. Unless you've got crazy good equipment and are using the best possible practices, it's almost not even worth having this conversation in the first place. We're splitting hairs here.

 

[LittleDabbie]

Unless you've got crazy good equipment and are using the best possible practices, it's almost not even worth having this conversation in the first place. We're splitting hairs here.

Which is kinda why i just asked why people don't just use glass and a griddle :D lol

Just making conversation :D

 

[squiggly]

Which is kinda why i just asked why people don't just use glass and a griddle :D lol

Just making conversation :D

Because it's advice that is more likely to backfire.

Unless you go get antique pyrex you're gonna waste a whole lot of product and potentially hurt yourself or others.

People give advice on a forum (which is where most people get their methods) for the general case. The general case is that pyrex dishes people have or will buy aren't from the 60's.

In the general case, you can't hurt yourself seriously doing this with a hot water bath. It's a fool proof method. Hence why it's the most often recommended and used method.

Literally, your method is the only way to make this part of the process dangerous.

 

[LittleDabbie]

Maybe im not seeing the danger here the glass dish im using is never being heated hot enuff to do anything but boil butane and its never dropped in temp while still hot so theres no thermal issues.. im talking about a glass bowl not a glass dessicator...

Bowl fits inside stainless steel chamber and cold vac the rest.. heat repeat heat repeat scrape dump repeat ...

Not seeing the danger.. unless your cracking your griddle to over 450 F ... and then suddenly dropping the temps ..

The only time ive actually seen a pyrex dish break is on top of the oven during a hot water bath the thing shattered because water boiled over the side onto the stove creating an un-even heating surface and kabloom there went the cake dish.. since then 2 years straight ive used the same glass both with the same method up till a few months ago when i bought a stainless steel chamber swapping out the old bel-art..

So yeah.. if theres any danger i seem to be avoiding it each and every time for the past 2 years damn near every week straight.. thats an awful lot of good luck ... or just a basic understanding of thermal heat conductivity and soda lime glass :D

Ever sprayed butane onto a hot griddle before? I have wanna know what happens? NOTHING.. it evaporates.. why? why no flame you might ask.. because theres no spark.. theres no ignition theres no source for the butane to ignite.. even if the entire dish broke and spilled its contents onto a hot griddle in a FLASH second the butane would be gone and your oil would be sizzling on a hot griddle..

The only danger would be from some dumb ass lighting a match near my house at the time of spraying..

 

[squiggly]

Not seeing the danger.. unless your cracking your griddle to over 450 F ... and then suddenly dropping the temps ..

Someone less careful might accidentally do just that

The only time ive actually seen a pyrex dish break is on top of the oven during a hot water bath the thing shattered because water boiled over the side onto the stove creating an un-even heating surface and kabloom there went the cake dish.. since then 2 years straight ive used the same glass both with the same method up till a few months ago when i bought a stainless steel chamber swapping out the old bel-art..

I'm not even going to get started on why heating shit on an oven, griddle, or anything even remotely electronic that isn't sparkless is dumb--but it is. This is terrible advice to be giving to people. This process shouldn't be done indoors without a proper laminar flow hood AT ALL. It should be done in a well ventilated area far from any possible source of ignition. If you're going to apply heat to a dish during this process, you should be using a sparkless hot plate. No ifs ands or buts.

If you don't want to--I'm cool with that. However, I'm not gonna sit here and let someone else read that dumb shit and go home and blow themselves or their loved ones up because they're marginally less careful than you are and are being given terrible advice.

So yeah.. if theres any danger i seem to be avoiding it each and every time for the past 2 years damn near every week straight.. thats an awful lot of good luck ...

I'm glad that your luck is good, or that you're careful enough to make this work for you safely. In either case--I don't have faith that it will work out the same for everyone else and neither should you.

Have you met many people?

I can name 10 right now, rapid fire, who I'm sure would hurt themselves trying something like this if all they had to go on was your comments. Maybe you don't have that perspective, but I do. It would be irresponsible of me, knowing that, to act like this is a great idea--especially when there's no benefit to be had by doing it.

Ever sprayed butane onto a hot griddle before? I have wanna know what happens? NOTHING.. it evaporates.. why? why no flame you might ask.. because theres no spark.. theres no ignition theres no source for the butane to ignite..

You must have one of those fancy sparkless griddles that don't exist and have never been produced ever. There is a reason sparkless hot plates exist. Scientists who need to apply heat to things near flammable vapors don't feel like rolling the dice every time they need to do that.

I won't roll the dice with people's lives either and suggest that your idea isn't dumb.

Let's recap:

You're missing the point.

Advice is being given here, and on most forums, for a general case. The point is to minimize risk. If you know what you're doing--that's great.

Everyone else doesn't necessarily. I'm not going to suggest that people do something that carries an inherantly larger risk for, quite literally, zero benefit relative to a less risky method.

You can tell me about your experience till you're blue in the face--it will not change my stance. I'm concerned about the experience that other people will have, not with patting you on the back for developing a process that is riskier for no reason. If you want to do it that way, great. I've answered your question as to why people do it this way. If that doesn't change your opinion, cool. I'm sure that no one will argue with you about what you choose to do.

However, the fact remains:

The way you're doing it does not make a better product, the process is not inherantly improved, and it does carry a larger potential for risk and accidents--especially in the case of someone reading up how to do this on the internet who may not be as knowledgeable and as careful as you are.

Period.

End of story.

If there were one iota of benefit or increased quality to be gleaned here then I would change my tune. Quality is everything to people on this scene. The fact is, though, that there just isn't. It's not better, it's more risky and nothing more than that.

TLDR:

The water bath is a nearly fool proof method.

Do not be silly or short-sighted and assume that fools will not read threads on this forum and others and try to do this process. A fool proof process is recommended for what I hope should now be an obvious reason.

 

[LittleDabbie]

Lets Recap.. The only advice ive ever given is for people to stop.. and read skunkpharm then proceed with caution.. Ive only ever described how I do things.. never once have i told people THIS is how you should do it.. In fact many times i tell people do not follow my lead.. make your own path in this..

And a water bath is hardly nearly fool proof i cant count how many people fuck that up...

Regardless ive never once told people how to make there bho.. Ive explained my process .. Ive never told people DO THIS AT HOME....DO THIS INSIDE... Never have those words been spoken by me..

But you Keep Assuming things... And keep pugging your opinion away cause thats all it is.. An opinion.

 

[squiggly]

Lets Recap.. The only advice ive ever given is for people to stop.. and read skunkpharm then proceed with caution.. Ive only ever described how I do things.. never once have i told people THIS is how you should do it.. In fact many times i tell people do not follow my lead.. make your own path in this..

And a water bath is hardly nearly fool proof i cant count how many people fuck that up...

Regardless ive never once told people how to make there bho.. Ive explained my process .. Ive never told people DO THIS AT HOME....DO THIS INSIDE... Never have those words been spoken by me..

But you Keep Assuming things... And keep pugging your opinion away cause thats all it is.. An opinion.

I'm not sure that you understand how a forum works. You don't need to actually tell people "you should do it this way" in order for them to read about what you're doing and try it. Very often they will go with the advice of whoever they thought made the better argument in a case like this.

By saying what you're doing in the first place, you are virtually guaranteeing that someone else will try it. That's reality.

You're 100% correct, what I've said IS an opinion--but it's an expert opinion colored by my years of laboratory experience and knowledge about laboratory safety. I do this for a living. Another way to say that is that I know what I'm talking about. I've had countless hours of laboratory safety training and time in the lab applying the requisite principles. I'm not sure if you've got the same (nor will I make any assumptions to that effect), but I feel as though my expertise gives me not only the tools to speak on this with some authority but also the obligation (because I like people on the farm and have a vested interest in their continued safety).

Beyond all of that, I don't even recommend the water bath--I just think it's a stretch safer than the process you're describing and in no way produces an inferior or even slightly different end product.

I don't see any good reason not to just take whatever tray you're blasting into and set it in your backyard or ventilated room for awhile and exercise a bit of patience in letting the butane boil off. It will do it all on its own. From there just use a heat gun for five seconds to get the stuff viscous before purging it. If you can fuck that up, then you shouldn't be doing any of this.

As far as reading Skunk Pharm--I agree. You'll notice they suggest using a hot plate/hot pad in their butane extraction section. Gee, I wonder why that is? Could it be because Graywolf is a retired engineer and ALSO knows what he's talking about?

I'm not arguing with you for myself or to make you feel bad. I'm arguing with you for a couple of reasons:

1. You asked a question which I appropriately answered. Instead of accepting that answer, you vehemently denied its legitimacy and fought tooth and nail with virtually every aspect of it.

2. So that people who read our debate can make up their own mind about who's got it right, rather than simply seeing me answer your question and assuming that your response to it was appropriate (just before running off to try it your way--which I think is dangerous and unneccessary).

3. You invited the debate by starting it.

If you're displeased with the way the debate is going, its your prerogative whether or not you want to stop engaging in it. However, if you want to continue I suggest you address the topics of contention in the debate rather than directing your responses towards my person.

Since this all started with a question you posed (why do people do it this way), I would now like to pose a similar question to you.

Why NOT do it this way?

Can you come up with a single legitimate reason?

My guess is no, because there does not exist such a reason.

Failing that, I'm done with my contribution to this part of the thread. People should be able to make their own informed decision from here--and that's all I'm really concerned about.

 

[LittleDabbie]

No what your concerned about is pushing your own agenda here.. Clearly...

I asked a question and you attacked my method like a fat kid on cake..

Shrugs

Anyway its not my concern how why what where or whatever method people use.. If someone blows them selfs up doing this thats would be there problem.. Theres plenty of information on how to do this safely You could have a step my step guide and theres bound to be someone thats gonna light up next to ya.. or bound to be at least 10000 more people who are gonna run indoors regardless of how many times you try and stop them..


WHAT YOU SIR.. do not understand is 2 things.. 1 i dont care :D 2.. Im not the worlds police its not my job to make sure everyones safe and tucked in there bed at night..

In another thread someone asked my method So i explained.. if someone does what i do do.. they would be making some pretty fine errl :D

If people wanna follow your " im a professional blah blah blah bullshit " Then by all means :D

Im done debating with a self proclaimed " Expert " ..

 

[shawnskush]

Yay glad squiggly is back to making giant pointless posts

 

[mikeb437]

Any examples of a vacuum chamber ??

Just bought a best value vac from ebay. Works great!!

 

[Nothing2No1]

Hey my fellow DIY BHOers!
I've been silently following this thread and another one that actually got me my first good run and lots of improvments.
http://forum.grasscity.com/harvesti...-bho-pass-testing-really-nice-waxshatter.html
Anyway I was wondering if this is normal or if maybe i shoulda left it purge longer with just heat before i started heat w/ VACing?
Also here is a really cheap Pump that i use and it gets down to -28 - -29inhg depending on the temp of the container.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006P7LBFK/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[LittleDabbie]

@Nothing2No1 can you explaine how you got to this point?

From the looks of things the butanes cooling near the surface of you oil, Are you heating AND vacing at the same time or heating then tossing it in a vac then taking it back out and heating and repeating? ( im guessing thats the case )

Also for your own health don't purge on those slick pads purge on parchment you'll thank me when little bits of that pad DONT end up in your oil.. been there..

Anyway Heat and vac at the same time is much prefered to hot swapping :D

 

[Nothing2No1]

Actually it's on a heat source. Just a really low temp. But this stuff has a weird consistency to it. At the point it was at in the pic i could stir it and it would peal up from the pad like it was ready to smoke. Now it's turned to a budder or crumble type and there's still allot of tane in it. I've heated it up all the way to 180°F and it starts to get a sparkly look to it but doesn't soften up at about 210°F
Heres before 180°F

Here's after heat gun

Here's before 180°F

 

[LittleDabbie]

180 and 200?! Running a little hot don't ya think?

Try purging in a glass dish 3-4 times BEFORE you scrape it up into a massive butane glob of emulsion which won't break very easy hence why your cranking the griddle about 80 degrees too hot, and ending up with wax :\

No stir, no scrape no touchie till most the butanes gone, then scape then purdge more all at around 100-120 TOPS.. Past that your gonna compromise...

 

[Nothing2No1]

I understand that but once it dries how do you continue to purge it? It wont soften unless i put the extreme heat to it.

 

[LittleDabbie]

Shouldn't have gotten to that consistency in the first place, Thats why i said don't fuck with it till most of the butanes gone. Once you create that emulsion your gonna get wax or butter, and theres no way of going back without more solvents. Ie Winterazation..

I know you asking how to purge dirty wax but thats just not something i can help with. Try and not get there in the first place is all i can really tell ya :D

 

[Nothing2No1]

Or I think I know what your meaning. I scrape the dish before it has enough time to get out most of the damn tane. Then i'm battling to get it out cause I done smashed it all together basically working in reverse. Kinda like wiping your ass then taking a shit! lol

 

[Nothing2No1]

Ya that makes perfect sense because i didn't wait very long at all before I started messing with it. Thanks allot man this I think is my last bump in da road.

 

[LittleDabbie]

EXACTLY :D Now your getting it :D But more like taking a shower then taking a shit..

Let it purge off for a little bit till all you see is little tiny bity bubbles vac and heat vac and heat THEN once most of the biggggggg bubbles are gone and it don't puff up anymore Scrape transfer to parchment heat vac some more on a Low Temp start off at like 85-90 see how it responds, give it a little time to heat up then proceed higher if the oils not responding enuff. Once your down to just a little bit of bubbles or a texture your happy with and no more mass of bubbles your good take it off and enjoy your product :D