Borax, The Magic In Ca-25?

bibbles · Jun 2, 2017

As far as I can tell, everyone is convinced that triacontanol is what makes Ca-25 effective, despite their specifically disclaiming it's involvement; however, while most dismiss the surfactant as simply another surfactant, I propose that the surfactant itself might be where the magic comes from. Ca-25 uses calcium chloride as it's base, and wouldn't you know it, borax is a synergistic surfactant.

Ca-25 MSDS: http://cdn.arbico-organics.com/downloads/calcium-25-vegetable-ornamental-msds.pdf

Calcium Chroride/Borax study: http://dergipark.gov.tr/download/article-file/119492

Perhaps the plant waxes are just a red herring... :o

DrMcSkunkins · Jun 2, 2017

bibbles said:
As far as I can tell, everyone is convinced that triacontanol is what makes Ca-25 effective, despite their specifically disclaiming it's involvement; however, while most dismiss the surfactant as simply another surfactant, I propose that the surfactant itself might be where the magic comes from. Ca-25 uses calcium chloride as it's base, and wouldn't you know it, borax is a synergistic surfactant.

Ca-25 MSDS: http://cdn.arbico-organics.com/downloads/calcium-25-vegetable-ornamental-msds.pdf

Calcium Chroride/Borax study: http://dergipark.gov.tr/download/article-file/119492

Perhaps the plant waxes are just a red herring... :o

I was reading about surficants being used in hydro somewhere on here, something about it improving nutrient uptake.

PharmHand · Jun 2, 2017

Plant waxes contain triacantonol. It used to say on their website it contains it. Where did you find them saying it doesn't? If plant waxes are added there may be such a small amount that it's not necessary for them to list it, or maybe if they say plant waxes that's good enough for labeling. It's omri listed organic maybe the mere mention of pgrs scares off organic growers- sales tactic?

bibbles · Jun 2, 2017

>Calcium-25 is a unique crop yield-enhancing product, and is composed of only naturally-occurring ingredients: calcium and certain amounts of plant waxes that occur on the leaf surface.
>Calcium-25 IS NOT a triacontanol product! Period.
http://www.calcium25.com

They still say it's got plant waxes, but they specifically disclaim the use of triacontanol, so... it's hard to say? I believe the connection is the result of an older article wherein they talk about how the inventor was experimenting with triacontanol in shampoo, saw someone else using it on plants, ????????????, he discovered something new and more effective, and thus Ca-25 was born. Here's the article.
https://books.google.com/books?id=R...nepage&q="calcium 25" popular science&f=false

rascali · Jun 2, 2017

That is very much like the current push towards legally "uncured" deli meats that are still full of nitrates, but because the nitrates come from celery instead of a mine - that's suddenly OK.
Tria is Tria, and it reduces overall potency and terpenes while increasing yield. I don't trust a single goddammed person who is most concerned with yield - they are just mini-monsanto's...

bibbles · Jun 2, 2017

No, for that analogy to work they would have to claim "nitrate free", yet be full of nitrates, which isn't a thing; they are not specifically disclaiming something like Ca-25 is. To be sure, Ca-25 may be outright lying, but this isn't a matter of hiding behind vague language.

That said, I foliar with CannaBoost out to like week six or seven, and my stuff trumps those I know in potency, flavor, and aroma, and they don't use tria. I think my skills are a cut above theirs, but not to the extent that I'd be out-performing them while dealing with a set back as you suggest. :/

PharmHand · Jun 3, 2017

bibbles said:
>Calcium-25 is a unique crop yield-enhancing product, and is composed of only naturally-occurring ingredients: calcium and certain amounts of plant waxes that occur on the leaf surface.
>Calcium-25 IS NOT a triacontanol product! Period.
http://www.calcium25.com

They still say it's got plant waxes, but they specifically disclaim the use of triacontanol, so... it's hard to say? I believe the connection is the result of an older article wherein they talk about how the inventor was experimenting with triacontanol in shampoo, saw someone else using it on plants, ????????????, he discovered something new and more effective, and thus Ca-25 was born. Here's the article.
https://books.google.com/books?id=R4zUHMZQudoC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq="calcium+25"+popular+science&source=bl&ots=ZZjfGjppo_&sig=Hwc82HmtVYS2ZKUJJGOFWwHNwCs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic67e99Z_UAhXL4iYKHXRsC8AQ6AEIJDAA#v=onepage&q="calcium 25" popular science&f=false

That article makes me think there IS at least some naturally occurring triacantanol. And I can't find on their website where it says that it doesn't.... I actually looked before my first post so as to not look like a complete tool before posting but apparently I'm blind- I can't find it. In fairness their website is a total cluster fuck, it's hard to glean anything from it. And I'm pretty dam sure it did say something about it containing triacantanol when I first learned of it 5 or so years ago... I do like and use CA25 but I don't think it does exactly what they say it does- they make some pretty unbelievable claims. Based on what I've read about triacantanol it only takes a very small amount to be effective and larger amounts won't actually increase its effectiveness. Pretty sure alfalfa contains tria too.

https://www.thcfarmer.com/community/threads/triacontanol-what-it-is-where-to-find-it.47363/ Just found this from years ago their talking about CA25 containing tria......

Issack · Jun 6, 2017

At what times are you guys doing your foliar with ca25. Lights on or off. I spray once week with biowar when lights go out. I just got some ca25 and was going to add that with my routine.

bibbles · Jun 6, 2017

About half an hour before the lights come on, I do Ca-25 the day before my tea, and add a kelp product to the tea, since there's allegedly some synergy in this order. I like Floralicious Plus.

bibbles · Jun 6, 2017

Oh, and @PharmHand, the specific text is: "Calcium-25 IS NOT a triacontanol product! Period." It's right above their email address.

Making wild claims is one thing, but to specifically disclaim tria? :/

PharmHand · Jun 6, 2017

Lol, I am blind. That could be taken different ways.... They're saying it's not a triacantanol product, but they aren't saying it doesn't contain it. They also say in there that it isn't a fertilizer, but yet it contains calcium. It's too bad labeling laws are so loose, they can be so misleading. I wonder why people were saying it does contain it back in 2012, so weird.... And that article.... Makes it sound like the key principle behind it's absorption.... Maybe we could ask them outright; does it contain ANY triacantanol? Would they be allowed to lie? Hmmm:) Peace

below frigid · Jun 6, 2017

Issack said:
At what times are you guys doing your foliar with ca25. Lights on or off. I spray once week with biowar when lights go out. I just got some ca25 and was going to add that with my routine.

Directions say to spray when temps are in the high 70's I think it was 78 and that was the minimum.

PharmHand · Jun 6, 2017

And I spray it lights out. Not very often tho

whitepistols · Jun 6, 2017

Dont buy into label dancing bullshit rule number 1. You say there not hiding anything, yet that site page is geared to 1 market, organics.

Lmao heres your salt.....suck that hollyier than thou salt in...

Rule number 2 msds are not worth the paper they are wrote on because it does not have a full disclosure of the contents when in the fertilizer world.

Not trying to be a dick. 20 years plus growing. Trust me lay a claim it improves yeild theres a pgr in it.

The dead give away is the slight mention about plant wax's.

bibbles · Jun 7, 2017

Organic crops can be sprayed with all the same Monsanto pesticides and stuff people think that they're avoiding by buying organic, so... from the production side of things, I very much doubt anyone genuinely cares.

The MSDS was only linked to clarify the specific form of calcium, since I've seen a number of people assuming that it's calcium carbonate while trying to DIY.

Products like Bud Factor X and Halo claim to improve yield while, so far as I can tell, being free from PGRs, instead relying on triggering SARs.

Also, you're not being a dick, your experience is valuable and appreciated, I'm simply bringing new information to the discussion. :)

Quantrill · Jun 7, 2017

https://www.google.com/patents/WO1983003041A1
https://www.google.com/patents/US4333758

bibbles · Jun 9, 2017

Alright then, what do we think of the borax study in and of itself then? If Ca-25 isn't using this, might it not still be useful information?

Variety719 · Jul 27, 2020

What happen to calcium 25? I can’t find it anywhere.

infam0usgro · Jul 28, 2020

Trustfall said:
What happen to calcium 25? I can’t find it anywhere.

Company went out of business. One of the owners of the company passed away and the wife no longer manufactures the product. This is what i was told by Arbico.

I need to find something to replace this product. Maybe someone can chime in on some advice

BJ_6 · Oct 1, 2020

infam0usgro said:
Company went out of business. One of the owners of the company passed away and the wife no longer manufactures the product. This is what i was told by Arbico.

I need to find something to replace this product. Maybe someone can chime in on some advice

Did you find out what would be appropriate sub for ca-25?
I used ca25 last year and i was excited to use it again and then found out that it's not manufactured anymore. :/

Borax, The Magic In Ca-25?

Borax, The Magic In Ca-25?

bibbles

DrMcSkunkins

Dabbling in Oil

PharmHand

bibbles

rascali

bibbles

PharmHand

Issack

bibbles

bibbles

PharmHand

below frigid

PharmHand

whitepistols

bibbles

Quantrill

bibbles

Variety719

infam0usgro

BJ_6

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