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ookiimata
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I've read that process for gathering and cultivating bennies before, and considered it. I concluded that in my situation, it's more practical to just buy relatively inexpensive products that contain the known desired microbes and bacteria. I'm on a very small scale, though, which is what makes that practical and affordable. I wouldn't mind attempting it sometime as an additive to the compost bin, however.
Well now wait a minute, you can't ascribe the notion of separating aerobic vs anaerobic organisms to her. For one thing, it's factual, they exist. For another, she's reporting on papers she's found, she didn't make the terminology up herself, others have done so before her. That's unfair and misleading in my opinion to suggest that this is specious terminology made up by someone. Let's also not forget that the woman has put in some serious study time of her own, you don't achieve PhD status in two years.^^^So proof is not in the pudding anymore??..:worried
Lol, joking. I think its backwards to think in terms of aerobic or anaerobic and categorize them as shes trying to do. Yes there is a difference but to say one or the other is all around better is misleading at best.
Are you saying that anerobes can live side-by-side with aerobes? This is new to me, something I've never heard of (in fact, the opposite is what I've learned).In studying microbes you'll find most of the time most will be both depending on environment. If I do any categorizing I look at environment and say well this has more of a chance of growing in my room as opposed to this because it fits more the profile of what its known to thrive. For instance a microbe that lives in salt-water may or may not thrive in soil. I infer this because ph, temp etc are known to affect microorganisms in Fermenting and Composting...
That said im looking for whats best suited for my grow and the conditions it is in. Also what is the best known microbe for the job im looking to for it to do.
I wonder that, too, especially with more and more people becoming aware of one simple little book that's nothing more than a basic primer, but it's really a basic primer for life (in my opinion).CT, great thread. U know what Ive been wondering alot about lately. I wonder if as its been said in good soil there are such and such beneficial organisms why are we not utilizing that instead of store brought products? As I get more into natural/organic farming I notice that is exactly what they do. Not really common in our circles, I guess really my question is what is your take on making our own organisms as opposed to buying them and the efficiency?
http://www.ctahr.hawaii.edu/oc/freepubs/pdf/BIO-9.pdf
It was relayed to me that there are fairly few 'manufacturers' who supply mycos, and anyone who says they have live viables in a liquid condition is not being truthful, that they can only continue in spore (dry) form. I was told that, because of this, most all fertilizer manufacturers get their mycos from the same source. I haven't checked the veracity of the information, but the source is pretty reliable.
Well now wait a minute, you can't ascribe the notion of separating aerobic vs anaerobic organisms to her. For one thing, it's factual, they exist. For another, she's reporting on papers she's found, she didn't make the terminology up herself, others have done so before her. That's unfair and misleading in my opinion to suggest that this is specious terminology made up by someone. Let's also not forget that the woman has put in some serious study time of her own, you don't achieve PhD status in two years.
The main point she's making, and I absolutely must agree with her, is that it is difficult at BEST to try to scientifically quantify and qualify what's happening with any compost tea, and therefore that condition makes it difficult to make unequivocal statements about anything on compost teas UNTIL those variables can be stabilized and not be what they are--variable.
Also, she's not saying that one or the other is better, she's saying that they each have their applications AND that there really is too much of a good thing. As I mentioned there are four parts to her series on compost, so you might want to go visit the site and read the articles at your leisure.
Are you saying that anaerobes can live side-by-side with aerobes? This is new to me, something I've never heard of (in fact, the opposite is what I've learned).
I wonder that, too, especially with more and more people becoming aware of one simple little book that's nothing more than a basic primer, but it's really a basic primer for life (in my opinion).
One thing at issue for me locally--I live in old growth forest, which means that my soils are mostly fungi dominant. Cannabis is an annual much more like vegetables, and so I have to work to get bacteria back in dominance. I'm still not understanding why other cannabis growers are focused on fungi dominance IF one is adhering to the 19 Rules outlined in Teaming With Microbes.
*My note, specified elsewhere in the book.Teaming With Microbes said:
- Some plants prefer soils dominated by fungi; others prefer soils dominated by bacteria.
- Most vegetables, annuals, and grasses prefer their nitrogen in nitrate form and do best in bacterially dominated soils.
- Most trees, shrubs and perennials prefer their nitrogen in ammonium form and do best in fungally dominated soils.
- Compost can be used to inoculate beneficial microbes and life into soils around your yard and introduce, maintain, or alter the soil food web in a particular area.
- Adding compost and its soil food web to the surface of the soil will inoculate the soil with the same soil food web.
- Aged, brown organic materials support fungi; fresh, green organic materials support bacteria.
- Mulch laid on the surface tends to support fungi; mulch worked into the soil tends to support bacteria.
- If you wet and grind mulch thoroughly, it speeds up bacterial colonization.
- Coarse, dryer mulches support fungal activity.
- Sugars help bacteria multiply and grow; kelp, humic and fulvic acids, and phosphate rock dusts help fungi grow.
- By choosing the compost you begin with and what nutrients you add to it, you can make teas that are heavily fungal, bacterially dominated, or balanced.
- Compost teas are very sensitive to chlorine and preservatives in the brewing water and ingredients.
- Applications of synthetic fertilizers kill off most or all of the soil food web microbes.
- Stay away from additives that have high NPK numbers. (Nothing over 10!)*
- Follow any chemical spraying or soil drenching with an application of compost tea.
- Most conifers and hardwood trees (birch, oak, beech, hickory) form mycorrhizae with ectomycorrhizal fungi.
- Most vegetables, annuals, grasses, shrubs, softwood trees, and perennials form mycorrhizae with endomycorrhizal fungi.
- Rototilling and excessive soil disturbance destroy or severely damage the soil food web.
- Always mix endomycorrhizal fungi with the seeds of annuals and vegetables at planting time or apply them to roots at time of transplanting.
^^^Interesting. I have to say I also have noticed I have no pests after I started feeding with Fermented extracts. In-fact I had a problem with root aphids, then all of a sudden I see none. I even flowered my moms because I had a problem, and now gone.
Good little primer. I was going for the catalytic properties of fermentation- breaking down nutes/ minerals for easier 'crobes digestion - the bio-pesticide properties were a bonus. I've obviously disregarded the warning but I was already well into it before I went looking for the science to explain what it was that I was into. :character0053:If fermentative facultative organisms are present, or are added, such as EM inocula, lactic acid fermenters such as in production of yogurt or kimchee, the facultative anaerobes will compete with and prevent the growth of the human pathogens. Typically the organic acids produced by fermentative facultative anaerobes and the competition for foods suppress human pathogens.
Inhibition of un-desirable organisms through production of antibiotics may occur, which means bio-pesticide abilities should be recognized.
But, the conditions that routinely encourages the growth of the inhibitory, competitive biology that removes the human pathogens and other disease-causing organisms, has not been documented. The problem with compost teas that become reduced in oxygen for a period of time is lack of knowledge of how long was the tea brew anaerobic? How reduced in oxygen did it become? What foods were present, to select for the growth of which organisms?
Once facultative, fermentative organisms growth conditions become as well understood as the conditions for actively aerated beneficial organisms to grow, then this kind of compost tea might be as accepted.
But until we understand how to make fermentative teas so they consistently and routinely produce the desired results, we should avoid the hype that says they can be used safely.
Excerpt from:
very interesting talk...CT for a simple tea for a newb brewer...if i am not able to acess the things you use what woul you go with? I was gonna go with AN Mother earth tea....however i am not sure now lol...peace n puffs
Well, my husband went and bacterially dominated the veggie bed by rototilling the whole thing.
Interesting that you seem to make rather similar points about the studies Chalker-Scott used as she did.
However, the wood chips, are you saying that the rule outlined in TWM that says woody mulches promote fungal dominance are off..? Or simply that she's (Chalker-Scott) asserting that by solely using wood chips you will achieve inoculation of such fungal spores? I can't believe she would make that sort of assertion, I mean... really?
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