"weed macdonalds"...couldn't have said it better myself...

clubs are for making money..period

any club that claims compassion before cash is full of shit..

sell pot..great..just don't look me in the eye and tell me that you're out there trying to selflessly help sick people...


...People that are really sick or terminal should get free weed...

but for these douchebag clubs that claim to "help" sick people...how come pot is exactly no cheaper in a compassionate club...ever?

It just might be more expensive? hmmmmmmmmm

Am I wrong? I hope so

knowledge sets you free

hbstoner said:

Let me start by saying I think Richard lee is really just looking out for his own business with this bill. He wants to keep people from growing larger amounts at home, so they will still need to go to shops like his from time to time to pick up when they run out. That is one of the major problems I see with this bill when comparing it to the others. Its like telling people they can make their own beer, but only use 25 sqft to make it.. which basically making one keg. For all of us beer drinkers we know that a keg is not going to last very long :)

There is going to have to be some kinda tax on the sale/production.. I agree with purpleberry that this is probably the only way legalization is possible. As far as im concerned this is just a small problem compared to the alternative which is getting $300+ tickets for having a 1/2 a gram on you. I think this drug war has gone on long enough, and personally no matter what legalization bill gets put on the ballot this year, im voting for it. I would hope that everyone else do the same regardless of a few small details on a bill that they are not happy with.

Im tired of my government telling me what I can grow/smoke.If this or any of the bills pass, it could trigger a much larger change in the whole country to legalize and stop punishing people for smoking a plant..... The right bill to you may not be the right bill for everyone (non-smokers included) , and we have to find something that works for the majority.


All of that being said.. does anyone really think the cops are going to go into everyones house with a tape measure and see if their grow space is 25sqft?.. hehe :)

Click to expand...

The problem with voting blindly for a bill that claims to legalize is your just replacing one set of failed policies with another. Instead of $300 fines for a 1/2 gram this bill fines/jails people for amounts over an ounce, which is completely unrealistic for any size grow or decent collection of strains. Which IMO kind of defeats the purpose of legalization in the first place. What you fail to understand if this bill does pass and triggers a nationwide movement it is not being done in the interest of enhancing our civil rights, its quite the opposite really. You would be handing control of your ability to cultivate and consume to the gov't/big corporations and as a penalty for your behavior you will be taxed exorbitantly as you continue to fund wasteful gov't spending. Not to mention you will be paying the same amount or more for the same or worse weed you get now. This bill actually creates an entirely new regulatory committee and process. Home cultivators will have to be licensed and inspected(if you like going to the dmv and waiting in line just wait for this licensing process) and yes, these new pot cops will have tape measures mind you, and there whole purpose will be to fine you. The amount of fees associated with licensing for home cultivation will make home cultivation unrealistically expensive. Unless of course you want to illegally cultivate without a license and be fined/imprisoned. This deterrent obviously creates the largest consumer base possible which is the only way the future giant weed corporations of tomorrow will be able to profit off you.

I stand for the legalization of marijuana in its purist forms, not this psuedo legalization bill designed to recriminalize marijuana for the purpose of profiteering. I'm not saying the current system isn't flawed and shouldn't be fixed. What I am saying is this is like curing a stab wound with a shotgun. Don't be fooled by these money hungry people who have spent the last decade profiting off the medical marijuana movement, and are now looking to turn their millions into billions. Look deeper, examine their obvious motivations.

BTW I'll happily debate any proponent of this legislation any time, bring it on.

A little somewhat unknown reminder, less than 100 years ago we didn't have 95% of the taxes we have today. Granted, we didn't have many things 100 years ago, but in another 100 will breathing be taxed?


The other fatal flaws are best described by Dennis Peron founder of prop 215,(especially concerning our youth) the recently fired oaksterdam employee of yours truly Richard Lee for merely voicing his opposition to this bill. I'll let Dennis take it from here (thanks again rollin J)

Why I Oppose the “Tax & Regulate” Marijuana Initiative (by Dennis Peron)

Three Fatal Flaws

1. One ounce limit? 25 sq. foot per building garden size limit? Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state.

2. Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole.

3. Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are
present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?

This initiative is bad for parents, students and ultimately the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences.

Perpetuating and increasing the hundred million plus tax dollars per year the state already spends policing this harmless plant is wrong yet that is exactly what this proposition does. Surely we can do better than this. How about just legalizing it, getting the state off pot to save lives and real money across the board? Please consider how you can help expose and defeat this misleading “tax and regulate” initiative.

Dennis Peron, Author of Proposition 215, the Compassionate Use Act of 1996.

3745 17th street, SFCA 94114 (415) 864 – 1961 cozycastrocottage@yahoo.com

kushpheen said:

The problem with voting blindly for a bill that claims to legalize is your just replacing one set of failed policies with another. Instead of $300 fines for a 1/2 gram this bill fines/jails people for amounts over an ounce, which is completely unrealistic for any size grow or decent collection of strains. Which IMO kind of defeats the purpose of legalization in the first place. What you fail to understand if this bill does pass and triggers a nationwide movement it is not being done in the interest of enhancing our civil rights, its quite the opposite really. You would be handing control of your ability to cultivate and consume to the gov't/big corporations and as a penalty for your behavior you will be taxed exorbitantly as you continue to fund wasteful gov't spending. Not to mention you will be paying the same amount or more for the same or worse weed you get now. This bill actually creates an entirely new regulatory committee and process. Home cultivators will have to be licensed and inspected(if you like going to the dmv and waiting in line just wait for this licensing process) and yes, these new pot cops will have tape measures mind you, and there whole purpose will be to fine you. The amount of fees associated with licensing for home cultivation will make home cultivation unrealistically expensive. Unless of course you want to illegally cultivate without a license and be fined/imprisoned. This deterrent obviously creates the largest consumer base possible which is the only way the future giant weed corporations of tomorrow will be able to profit off you.

I stand for the legalization of marijuana in its purist forms, not this psuedo legalization bill designed to recriminalize marijuana for the purpose of profiteering. I'm not saying the current system isn't flawed and shouldn't be fixed. What I am saying is this is like curing a stab wound with a shotgun. Don't be fooled by these money hungry people who have spent the last decade profiting off the medical marijuana movement, and are now looking to turn their millions into billions. Look deeper, examine their obvious motivations.

BTW I'll happily debate any proponent of this legislation any time, bring it on.

Click to expand...

I understand the purist form of legalization.. the fact is though that it will never happen (at least in my lifetime). You live in a country run by big business. The medical movement has sparked big business and legalization will spark big business no matter how you cut it. Someone will always be making a very large profit off legalization or even medical like it is now.. Dont get me wrong here.. i totally agree that big business should be out of it, and it shouldn't be about profit. I am 100% on your side in that aspect and I think richard lee is a douche and would never support his crappy schools or shitty weed. The fact is legalization will never happen unless there is major motivation for politicians and businesses ($$$$$$).

I know the 1 ounce limit is ridiculous, Ive been growing for a long time. The fact is Im tired of seeing my friends go to jail and be fined for growing and having small amounts of pot on them. Its time this shit ends even if we have to make a compromise with our government. Details can be fought after the fact to show those limits of 1 ounce are un-realistic. Everyone knows that if your growing in 25sqft you are going to get more then an ounce everytime. So the bill already conflicts with itself which gives a great defense for growers and makes a good case to get it changed after the fact. We have to start somewhere though, your not going to get everything you want in one bill. These things take time, and the sooner we get it started and non smokers see that the world is not going to end with legalization, then we can start making real steps towards progress.

Well the votes are in according to NORML.

Now all we can do is hold our breathes and wait.

MightyStoner said:

Well the votes are in according to NORML.

Now all we can do is hold our breathes and wait.

Click to expand...

California: Lawmakers Cast First Vote In Nearly 100 Years To Repeal Marijuana Prohibition

hbstoner said:

I know the 1 ounce limit is ridiculous, Ive been growing for a long time. The fact is Im tired of seeing my friends go to jail and be fined for growing and having small amounts of pot on them. Its time this shit ends even if we have to make a compromise with our government. Details can be fought after the fact to show those limits of 1 ounce are un-realistic. Everyone knows that if your growing in 25sqft you are going to get more then an ounce everytime. So the bill already conflicts with itself which gives a great defense for growers and makes a good case to get it changed after the fact. We have to start somewhere though, your not going to get everything you want in one bill. These things take time, and the sooner we get it started and non smokers see that the world is not going to end with legalization, then we can start making real steps towards progress.

Click to expand...

To be honest with you, if your friends are still get arrested/fined for small amounts of weed, perhaps they need to rethink their behavior in public thats leading to these issues. Nothing in this bill will authorize your friends to enjoy this new found freedom in public. You will be confined to enjoy cannabis in your own home. Their current behavior will result in the same fines/arrests. That's not legalization. Its taken nearly 15 years of legal battles to get cali's medical marijuana laws to where they are today. Yet patients are still being arrested, fined and imprisoned. To pass a bill with that has serious flaws only to try and fix them later through judicial or legislative process is a long painfully expensive process, that I or you (I'm assuming) is not willing or able to undertake.

Here are some thoughts on compromising.

“From the beginning of our history the country has been afflicted with compromise. It is by compromise that human rights have been abandoned.”

“Compromise is but the sacrifice of one right or good in the hope of retaining another--too often ending in the loss of both.

“Compromise is never anything but an ignoble truce between the duty of a man and the terror of a coward.”

“One of the truest tests of integrity is its blunt refusal to be compromised.”

kushpheen said:

To be honest with you, if your friends are still get arrested/fined for small amounts of weed, perhaps they need to rethink their behavior in public thats leading to these issues. Nothing in this bill will authorize your friends to enjoy this new found freedom in public. You will be confined to enjoy cannabis in your own home. Their current behavior will result in the same fines/arrests. That's not legalization.

Click to expand...

I think that you are really taking generalization to far with this statement. Your saying that my friend having any pot on them at all, and being searched by a cop for whatever reason (we all know cops can find any reason to search you) is their fault? Saying this bill is not protecting anyone from arrests is just straight up false.. Since you are the one that keeps pasting parts of the bill you should know this. Yes, the bill does not allow for people under 21 to be free from prosecution. If i go to the store and buy a minor a beer, then im going to get in trouble for that. If im selling alcohol without a license, im going to get in trouble for that as well.

I think your forgetting the reason that legalization is even on the table right now, and that is $$$$$$. They (politicians,etc) are not trying to do the right thing.. they see major dollar sings in legalizing this plant. If you want to wait for the right bill that does not line peoples pockets, your going to be waiting a really long time. 100 years of prohibition is enough, we need to get any legalization bill passed so that everyone can see its not such a big deal and warm up to the idea of relaxing all the laws surrounding it. Most non pot smokers are never going to go for a bill that says you can grow 99 plants.. Trust me , I love the number 99 like everyone else on here does. Its just an unrealistic number to get passed into law after the 100 years of scaring the public into thinking pot will make you crazy and commit crimes.

what's the rush to push through a bill that sucks?

why not take time and do it right?

we have been putting up with harrassment and nonsense for years...we can't wait a little longer to get it right?

great discussion here:)

SUPERBABY said:

what's the rush to push through a bill that sucks?

why not take time and do it right?

we have been putting up with harrassment and nonsense for years...we can't wait a little longer to get it right?

great discussion here:)

Click to expand...

I do see that side of the story as well, we have been waiting a long time. Im prepared to wait longer if we have to. I just dont think that legalization is a for sure thing at this point. My point just is, that if we do get the opportunity to legalize it, we should go for it. All of the bills proposed so far offer (some) relief from the current situation. Saying that we dont want businesses to profit off it is unrealistic.

hbstoner said:

I think that you are really taking generalization to far with this statement. Your saying that my friend having any pot on them at all, and being searched by a cop for whatever reason (we all know cops can find any reason to search you) is their fault? Saying this bill is not protecting anyone from arrests is just straight up false.. Since you are the one that keeps pasting parts of the bill you should know this. Yes, the bill does not allow for people under 21 to be free from prosecution. If i go to the store and buy a minor a beer, then im going to get in trouble for that. If im selling alcohol without a license, im going to get in trouble for that as well.

I think your forgetting the reason that legalization is even on the table right now, and that is $$$$$$. They (politicians,etc) are not trying to do the right thing.. they see major dollar sings in legalizing this plant. If you want to wait for the right bill that does not line peoples pockets, your going to be waiting a really long time. 100 years of prohibition is enough, we need to get any legalization bill passed so that everyone can see its not such a big deal and warm up to the idea of relaxing all the laws surrounding it. Most non pot smokers are never going to go for a bill that says you can grow 99 plants.. Trust me , I love the number 99 like everyone else on here does. Its just an unrealistic number to get passed into law after the 100 years of scaring the public into thinking pot will make you crazy and commit crimes.

Click to expand...

There are so many things to argue here...
1st- The 4th amendment should be protecting your friends rights from unreasonable searches and seizures, they need to do some reading, or hire an attorney, or perhaps not be creating the probable cause that led to being searched in the first place
2nd- This bill might protect your friends with dimebags but I'm not going to compromise my love of cannabis to 1 strain or 1 ounce.
3rd- If you think 3,5, or 7 years is an appropriate sentence when your 21 year old son hands his 20 year old girlfriend a joint, your impatience to legalize will come at the expense of your children or grandchildren
4th-Im not arguing against the laws to protect minors from alcohol and tobacco. This is weed, different story all together. Unless of course you like the idea of your children being forced into rehab to avoid jail.
5th-If your motivation to legalize is solely based on the government's or your ability to profit, you have already compromised your principals and this argument will continue to fall on deaf ears. I understand the motivations behind the corrupt, doesn't mean I agree or will compromise with them.
6th-Money is the only reason this rich lee's bill got this far he bought all the signatures, took advantage of the states budget shortfall and the impatience of people like you willing to compromise.
7th-The laws cant get any more relaxed than they currently are in my city. Its the lowest priority for LEO. The fines are less than most parking tickets for possession, if the officer even chooses to waste his time writing you a ticket.
8th-Where do you get this 99 number from ? who suggested 99 is a compromise me or anyone else is willing to take? or are you following some sort of federal sentencing or prosecution guidelines?


I can wait, Im in no hurry to compromise myself or my childrens future in order to help a few greedy politicians and profiteers become wealthier. If it takes another 100 years so be it.

I think a better word for compromise is appeasement.

I wouldn't vote for a bill unless it took out jail time. I don't think anyone should go to jail for cultivating, or using, any plant. Our rights have been bent and twisted to the point that most people don't even know what their rights are. The government has no right to tell anyone they can or cannot do anything. Slowly but surely they will turn the United States into something that resembles China. What is that, a Totalitarian Democracy? There is no way I want to be part of that and this bill seems to be feeding into there complete power scenario.

@hbstoner- I see where you're coming from, but as it's already been stated in the thread, this bill will not make it any more legal to do what you're doing. It is only allowing small amounts to be in your possession and putting you in jail for a mandatory 3 months if you have more than an Oz. Also, it is taking out one of the larger marijuana communities, ages 18-21. I know that I didn't even really smoke until I was 17. If I hadn't started then I probably would never really become as much of a smoker as I am now. From a retail point of view that is going to drop our $$ numbers down a lot. Most older heads grow there own stuff or has a friend that sells to them. The real buyers are the younger guys that buy from the clubs and yah I guess there are a lot of 21+ buyers that will spend a lot of money(which I also think is ridiculous), but that wouldn't even add up to how much money we would lose by taking out 18-21 year old buyers. IMO this bill is a long way from being ready to be put on the ballot. I won't be voting for it.

-Supa

supasticky said:

I think a better word for compromise is appeasement.

I wouldn't vote for a bill unless it took out jail time. I don't think anyone should go to jail for cultivating, or using, any plant. Our rights have been bent and twisted to the point that most people don't even know what their rights are. The government has no right to tell anyone they can or cannot do anything. Slowly but surely they will turn the United States into something that resembles China. What is that, a Totalitarian Democracy? There is no way I want to be part of that and this bill seems to be feeding into there complete power scenario.

Click to expand...

Although id love to see this happen, I just dont think its possible in this country. Most of the laws in this country are made to control us (via scaring us). I guess maybe I have just lost hope in this country in general and Im willing to accept any situation regarding the legalization of pot vs the current one we have (possibly to a fault).

And to kushpheen, the 99 plant count i was talking about was in another one of the legalization bills I was reading about. Really was just giving an example and not talking specifics. Im glad that people on here can have a civil conversation without it getting out of hand like shitty IC mag :) Cheers guys, Ill smoke a fatty right now to hoping this country changes one day and isn't all about controlling us with fear!:rauch08:

hbstoner said:

And to kushpheen, the 99 plant count i was talking about was in another one of the legalization bills I was reading about. Really was just giving an example and not talking specifics. Im glad that people on here can have a civil conversation without it getting out of hand like shitty IC mag :) Cheers guys, Ill smoke a fatty right now to hoping this country changes one day and isn't all about controlling us with fear!:rauch08:

Click to expand...

Right on man, its always good to get different perspectives. I know I couldn't wait around for my state to change, I had to leave my family and friends, take the leap and start over in town/state that actually embraced simple civil liberties. If you can't wait, check out this link, it will give you a better idea what I'm talking about. Enjoy that phatty :rauch08:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/11/magazines/fortune/medical_marijuana_legalizing.fortune/index.htm

i live and grow in nor cal and im voting against legalization i dont want the goverment running shit, i think in time its going 2 ruin it for growers who make a lil on the side

SUPERBABY said:

"weed macdonalds"...couldn't have said it better myself...

clubs are for making money..period

any club that claims compassion before cash is full of shit..

sell pot..great..just don't look me in the eye and tell me that you're out there trying to selflessly help sick people...


...People that are really sick or terminal should get free weed...

but for these douchebag clubs that claim to "help" sick people...how come pot is exactly no cheaper in a compassionate club...ever?

It just might be more expensive? hmmmmmmmmm

Am I wrong? I hope so

Click to expand...

I completely agree with you, but there are always exceptions to a rule. Out of California's 1000+ dispensaries, there might be a handful that have their patients best interest in mind. Harborside is the best example I found.....and there is still room for improvement. An overwhelming majority of dispensaries are laughable at best.... I've personally seen seedy brick weed sold for 50$ an eighth! Fucking despicable. How in the fuck do they sleep at night?

If this current shit passes thats bullshit, just legalize it no strings attached these motherfuckers just wanna get richer. Thats it legal PERIOD or nothing i rather it stay the way it is

A limit of 25 sqft(per residence!) and carrying no more then one ounce is a joke!:confused0054:

What if multiple people in the "residence" need more then what their current 25 sqft provides?

What if you Travel somewhere in the state and you want to bring a sufficient supply with you so you don't have to buy it at dispensaries? Maybe your staying at a relative or friends house for a few weeks, but one ounce isn't enough to last you the whole trip.

Seems fishy to me. I get the feeling that underlying motives to make tons of money are present.

I think this is a fucking joke..

know what? I've been smoking pot for over 2 decades (just a baby compared to some:)),,

I don't need the govt to tell me what I can or can't grow in my own house...

I've been doing it this way for that long, so the money grubbing govt can say whatever they want..

have done it my way...I am doing it my way...and I will continue to do it my way...

just cuz the govt is out of money, now all of a sudden they are doing what?...

taking back the years of propaganda about the evils of MJ cuz now they need more money????they couldn't manage thier money and now need to take more of mine???????

"it's wrong..you are wrong...anybody who smokes pot is wrong...you are bad...pot is bad...'

oh..wait..oops...we are fucking idiots and now we need more money sooooo..I guess now MJ isn't that bad..





fucking hypocrite lying bastards...

I'll do what the fuck I want...





(Ahhh..that felt good:))
rant over

Ahh sweet freedom being enjoyed right there superbaby. The proponents of the tax, regulate and control act (notice how legalize isn't even mentioned in the name of the bill) rich lee and jeff jones, were respected members of the medical cannabis community before they introduced this initiative. They are betting the majority of californians who smoke and favor legalization will be too lazy to actually read the details of this bill and just vote for it blindly. If they're successful, it will turn these self made medical marijuana millionaires into billionaires. Make no mistake, they could care less about helping our states economy, or helping our police better allocate its resources, they want to remove or seriously limit your cultivation and possession limits solely for the purpose of their personal profiteering. Don't let these douchebags insult our intelligence, boycott oaksterdam. Boycott the university, boycott oaksterdam clones, boycott blue sky swag. Make sure these money grubbers feel the pinch when the medical marijuana community turns their back on them.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is about...just legalize it. Things never happen until somebody does something, and that is only when that person has something to gain.

So what is kushpheen's plan other than crying on a forum?