Breeding for whorls

hiiipower · Mar 14, 2016

Haha they do look like strawberry leaves, those are some fatties!!

I bought my first t5 a year ago, then just brought a new one home the other day. Couldn't believe the difference when I put them side by side. I definitely need to get the old fixture new bulbs, looks like about half the light. A year is too long to run those 18hrs/day I guess.

Your plants are always some of the happiest I've ever seen. Very excited for the run!

Sativied · Mar 14, 2016

I hope I can keep them healthy throughout flower this time. I find it very easy to veg in this light mix soil (they barely had any nutes, just a little Si and little bit of N) but I much rather flower on hydro. I tried, no nutes, low nutes, and high nutes on some of the ice x ch and they still started yellowing and dropping bottom leaves as if it's programmed to do so. The CHxCH and P (chunk x ch) doesn't do that so could very well be the ice.

Going to put them in large round pots this time, same I used for organic runs, but with special mix (opposed to lightmix soil has for 5-6 weeks nutes). Considering they only need 7-8 weeks flower I hope to get away with using very little nutes.

The panama is in a mini hempy bottle for now but going to grow it large since I got only one. I had a few others from ace that didn't pop including some 15-buck seeds... Going to contact them about that.

unwine99 · Mar 14, 2016

Sativied said:
They remind me of strawberry leaves.

I've always thought that too. My critical cut straight up looks like a strawberry patch after it's been topped a few times. Cannabis is just a beautiful plant in all its many forms.

I can already tell this new project of yours is going to kick fucking ass.

Toaster79 · Mar 17, 2016

She's taking off slowly :)

Sativied · Mar 17, 2016

After a second look, could be the angle of the pic, but it appears to have two of the newest leaves and is turning regular. There should be a leaf at 20:00 hour.

Toaster79 · Mar 17, 2016

There is one but way smaller. So was the previous set of leaves and evened out. But she might go normal soon as the difference is much bigger here. Time will tell. I'll take a shot with my camera tomorrow to have a closer look at it.

Sativied · Mar 18, 2016

Now there's a good way to start the day... preflowers, and color :party1:

They don't grow very fast in size but physiologically and ontogenetically they are growing up fast. The males in my CH crosses tend to branch out earlier and a little more and one of the PCK does that as well, so figure it would be male. I think it is, but can't be sure yet. Has preflowers on 5th and 6th node...

They were still underground barely 3 weeks ago. Here's 18 days ago:

Sativied said:
A normal one:

I took out another plant to see if I could determine sex, the rest has 1 node less so the above is clearly faster, and noticed this:

Is also growing out more slender leaflets... As much as I enjoy the wide leaflets for a change, I don't want them in the end result so it would be nice if I the PCK I end up using has the most slender leaflets. So I took a second look at the others and the (probably) male plant has it too, a little more even. It's on very small new leaves so will take a better pic in a day or two. So, 2 weeks under T8, 1 week under 400w mh and already maturing. I hope it gets blood red as it will be an easy pick then to cross with longer flowering hazes.

Still cold at night, around 18c/64f (which they supposedly should be able to handle) and I still got the mh above it which I think will bring out the color more (according to research for other species blue seems to have a significant positive effect). Going to flower the females all anyway but would be nice to be able to detect colorful males asap.

MGRox · Mar 18, 2016

Sativied said:
Still cold at night, around 18c/64f (which they supposedly should be able to handle) and I still got the mh above it which I think will bring out the color more

Heh, Right on! Sorta like pre-sexing for pigmentation haha. Definitely a good sign to see pigmentation this early in response to the cold n' color. Hopefully you will see some red / purple variation between pheno's too.

Always give m' ladies cooler temps later in flower as part of the encouragement for color.

Hmm, Can only think of one other thing without using deficiencies.
Increasing P levels lowers the starch / sucrose ratio (increases sucrose) in leave tissues. Since you are encouraging this coloration; it is entirely possible that a common blooming NPK may benefit vs a common veg NPK. As an increase in leaf sugar can / may assist with or help to encourage pigmentation.

Sativied · Mar 18, 2016

MGRox said:
Hopefully you will see some red / purple variation between pheno's too.

Yeah that would be great, and lucky with 7 plants. I won't mind getting new (red pck) seeds but if I find a reddish-purple I'll be happy for now.

Love the spoiler title lol. I'm going to put them in premixed soil soon and just let them do their thing (will still be cold-ish at night in flower) and save the experiments for the clones and possibly a new batch of seed. I do have a few bottles from a trial pack of aptus (insanely priced nutes), including startboost (N), CaMg, P boost, K boost, regulator (Si), and top booster (molasses with auxins...). I also want to do the experiments in hempy so I have more control over what's in the medium and can really flush the medium without drowning them.

Bookmarked some interesting relevant research recently (after your excellent pm) and there seems to be some conflicting results with ethylene:

Ethylene suppression of sugar-induced anthocyanin pigmentation in Arabidopsis.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20876338
"Anthocyanin accumulation is regulated negatively by ethylene signaling and positively by sugar and light signaling. However, the antagonistic interactions underlying these signalings remain to be elucidated fully. We show that ethylene inhibits anthocyanin accumulation induced by sucrose (Suc) and light"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC366283/pdf/plntphys00226-0014.pdf
Shows positive effects heavily depended on light.

And of course the one you pmed, based on grapes: http://www.mdpi.com/1420-3049/15/12/9057/pdf

But could be interesting just to figure out the exact influence on cannabis by getting some dm reverse or florel, which contain ethepon which the plant converts to ethylene, supposedly fast too. Could be funny, sort of spray the color on one half of the plant or cola, or alternating leaflets :)

Toaster79 · Mar 18, 2016

Sativied said:
After a second look, could be the angle of the pic, but it appears to have two of the newest leaves and is turning regular. There should be a leaf at 20:00 hour.

You my sir have a keen eye

Let's see how she continues

Sativied · Mar 20, 2016

I don't want to get too excited yet but it sure looks more reddish than purple.

As soon as they produce more chlorophyll and become darker green the color disappears too. No doubt it will return. 4 or 5 out of 7 have it.

Stems are getting thick fast. Solid.

Sativied · Mar 21, 2016

I've been experimenting a bit with a (CHxICE/CH) x Amnesia White. That's the one I called evergreen (CHxCH or CH-dom CHxICE) in the hempy bottle pollinated with a mix of AW pollen (ie. from the male AW, not the female hermies). Evergreen was like a houseplant. Unlike in soil, I can green up pale plants in hempy (and mediumless) much easier, but this one really surprised me. It's a female, again in roughly 0.8L hempy bottle. I used several Aptus products on it not really suitable for hydro, stressed the hell out of it in many ways to see if I can get it to hermie, ended up getting brown and even some black roots. Started yellowing and dropping fans, but the terminal bud continued to develop nicely.

So I've been feeding it normally (450ppm/0.9ec AB nutes) for barely a week. Those bottom two complete fans were more yellow than green.

Stood next to a male and did pollinate a couple of pistils, it appears to be a bit leafy atm, but it smells very strong. Nothing like its parents yet though, just dank. Going to flower it out to see if I can still get it to herm. If not, I may have to pop a few more... got only 17 seeds from the evergreen.

geologic · Mar 22, 2016

Don't see any evidence of pleiocotyly here,

maybe the birds found some pleiocots out in the garden;

if they did they didn't tell me about it,

but wait--
what's this here thing...

@Og Gong

Og Gong · Mar 22, 2016

geologic said:
Don't see any evidence of pleiocotyly here,
View attachment 584251
maybe the birds found some pleiocots out in the garden;
View attachment 584252
if they did they didn't tell me about it,
View attachment 584255
but wait--
what's this here thing...
View attachment 584256 @Og Gong

Nice one Geo!!! :D

geologic · Mar 22, 2016

...that's yer baby...

Og Gong · Mar 22, 2016

geologic said:
...that's yer baby...

Wow man! Made my day lol

Sativied · Mar 25, 2016

Hey nice to see that paid off. How many seeds did you pop geo?

One of the PCK plants started spiralling since alternating. Stems are getting really thick, thicker than my ice cross in flower... Since they focus so much on the main stem I may just use branches for cuttings and not the top, and not top them either. Or maybe still top and veg the females longer if I get a very high male ratio...

Some of the pck smell very strong after rubbing the stem. Familiar yet different. Dank, but with an interesting smell I can't describe yet.

Will take some fresh pics in a bit.

Sativied · Mar 25, 2016

Always surprising to see how large the difference can be between female sex organs...

So far got 1 female, 1 possible female, 2 unknown, 3 males.

PCK spiral is almost a tri whorler...

Female:

Other side:

Needs a little water but nice pose for a picture...

Relatively most slender leaflets:

Structure description from Ace: "Indica plant with short node lenght, wide leaves and columnar growing. " matches well despite the spelling error. Nodes as short as half an inch and the thick stem along already makes it live up to columnar.

geologic · Mar 26, 2016

Sativied said:
Hey nice to see that paid off. How many seeds did you pop geo?

I haven't found anything unusual yet in the 25-year ibl seed mix,
birds are getting the 2/3 out in the garden;
hafta move 'em back to the porch.

The twins and the pleiocot are from @Og Gong 's iScream cross,
I planted (looks like) 27 of 'em--
2 didn't come up...

Sativied · Mar 28, 2016

Some of the dried and trimmed ICExCH.

Still unsure about 2, maybe 3 PCK, but got 2 female so far. One of the females has the most slender leaflets, is now pretty much tri whorled, and the petioles and even the stem is getting colorful fast. Also, check out the big stipules:

Another one, month in veg now.

A male with about the same amount of nodes I've had in 3 times as large plants... it's exactly 11" tall

Breeding for whorls

Breeding for whorls

hiiipower

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Ruler of the Whorled

unwine99

Toaster79

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Ruler of the Whorled

Toaster79

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MGRox

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Ruler of the Whorled

Toaster79

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geologic

Old Pharmer

Og Gong

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Og Gong

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geologic

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Breeding for whorls

Breeding for whorls

hiiipower

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Ruler of the Whorled

unwine99

Toaster79

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MGRox

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Toaster79

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geologic

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Og Gong

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Og Gong

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geologic

Old Pharmer

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