Budworms...ugh!

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oldskool63

oldskool63

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OK...so I started the Dipel about the end of July at a 2 week interval. I could also see A LOT of the white moths with 2 spots on their wings flying around the vegetable and medi garden. I had researched and found out they are "white satin" moths....more like SATAN! So at the end of August I released Trichogramma wasp eggs to combat the moths, and changed up the BT regimen to once a week. I released the rest of the wasp eggs about 2 weeks ago. About midway through August a buddy noticed these "eggs" on my trellis line. Budwormsugh
I was floored! I didn't want to immediately kill them...especially after wiping out an army of lady bug eggs a month prior. I didn't know what they were. (just another example of too many years inside!) So I began a hunt for them. I found 13 deposits on the trellis that day. They seemed to drop the eggs on the trellis near the outer edges of the plant and usually in one of the middle tiers...Such that as they would hatch they could easily descend to on of the awaiting buds. I would find about 6 to 10 of these egg lines every 3 days or so. They start out very cream colored and darken as they get closer to dropping their intended package. I began to keep a bud with a few strands of the eggs at various stages in a jar to see what they actually were when they hatched...Budworms!
Budwormsugh 2 Budwormsugh 3
I had not seen any signs of these little bastards on my buds until yesterday. Mother %$#@&%s got into 2 of my plants. Arm length spears with brown spots appeared overnight....and I have been spraying religiously with a brand of BT called Dipel. Now here is my question for someone who may know about BT and these caterpillar/worms....Does the BT only control these insects when in the larval stage? I mean once they are caterpillars do you then have to attack with something different?...spinosad? Any help is appreciated.
Budwormsugh 4
Budwormsugh
 
Og Gong

Og Gong

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Are they similar to the tobacco budworm? I found this online. I hope it helps.
 
Og Gong

Og Gong

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The study says that Bt only works if the worm eats it. So Bt only works a little because when you spray the bud it is only on the outer surface and the worm eats from the inside out.
 
oldskool63

oldskool63

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Are they similar to the tobacco budworm? I found this online. I hope it helps.
Ok...the moths I've seen around here are not like the moth shown in this article...but the little worms sure a hell are! And yes now that I have actually found some and seen the damage, how can you get rid of them? I know the BT has kept the population reduced and it could be worse, but this sucks.
 
fishwhistle

fishwhistle

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Basically what happens with BT is the worms eat it and then it takes a few days to a week or so to kill them.After they consume it they supposedly stop eating,get lethargic then die from lack of food.
I use monterey BT,heres a little blurb from them,
''B.t. must be eaten by worms or caterpillars to be effective. After ingesting the insecticide, they immediately stop feeding, though they may otherwise appear to be unaffected for several days. Best results are obtained by treatments when worms are small; they must be actively feeding on treated, exposed foliage. You may apply Monterey B.t. up to and on the day of harvest.''
Couple things ive learned is to spray at sunset because sunlight actually renders BT less effective and the moths and budworms come out at night,early AM and evening is when there most active IME.You can use other pesticides but they kill
everything,honeybees,ladybugs etc and are NOT good for people or pets either,which sucks.
Another bummer about BT is it seems to eat the frost of your buds and brown the pistils too,fuck budworms.
 
Og Gong

Og Gong

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@fishwhistle thanks bro,

@oldskool63 I feel you bro. I have battled them before and took heavy losses.
 
DrFever

DrFever

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And also appears BT works better on 2nd generation of off spring this sounds bad but you need to nuke them ASAP and that means bringing out the heavy arsenal
 
DrFever

DrFever

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I would use this ASAP then once there dead i would wash plant on a windy day or get portable gen and some fans on it
 
DrFever

DrFever

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http://www.planetnatural.com/product/beneficial-nematodes/
They kill 230 different insects, not sure if caterpillars are one but it couldn't hurt.
the problem is there is no time for that right i mean looks to me this is like possibly 2 week harvest window in that time the damage is done and the grow was garbage and most importantly product is garbage where the use of chems kills them instantly wash plant and 2 weeks later you have possibly something
or your way and in 2 weeks you making live worm infested hash
 
DrFever

DrFever

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We have to get past the thought cause it was grown organic maybe that we need to eradicate insects the organic way .. Even on organic farms they use chem pesticides as a last resort could you imagine your lively hood depending on a harvest just saying sometimes extreme measures have to be taken.
And organic or not this is one of the times i would
 
oldskool63

oldskool63

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Wow...first let me thank ALL of you for responding. I believe you all are giving me your best advice.
I would use this ASAP then once there dead i would wash plant on a windy day or get portable gen and some fans on it
Ok...I know rapeseed oil is basically canola oil. I don't see caterpillars or budworms listed here, but I will be doing more research on it tonight. Thanks.
http://www.planetnatural.com/product/beneficial-nematodes/
They kill 230 different insects, not sure if caterpillars are one but it couldn't hurt.
The employees at Arbico in Tucson AZ should know me by name. I am a big believer in beneficials...I added nematodes to the soil and sprayed their steinernema feltiae because the area is apparently susceptible to psyllids. Again my first year here and have been trying to stay proactive. I haven't checked prices at planet natural but will do some comparing in the future. Thanks.
Well....what I did do tonight...was to fire up my gas powered 3200psi pressure washer and...ok ok...so the thought did come to mind and then I put out the joint...I did mix another 25 gallons of BT in the Chapin sprayer and, pistils be damned, drenched each of the buds on the 2 effected plants and then the rest of the garden. In retrospect I think I may have been a bit light on my prior applications of BT as the buds began to develop...also I may have neglected to concentrate on the very tops of the plants. The 2 plants both had brown dead spots with an active worm on a few of the very top colas. I got the ladders out tonight and concentrated on spraying so the mixture not only saturated the tops but would funnel down in toward the stems...at least that is my assessment and plan of action.
I have already top cut 6 plants and will be continuing the BT...I am going to read up on the Monterey Insect spray to determine if I still have time to spray spinosad or not.
It's medicine for me, my lady, family, and patients...I can't ethically spray something on them that I haven't researched...All worked up about this stuff, but got to try and sleep.
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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I use DiPel, but I alternate weekly Tx's with Spinosad. LOVE the folks at Arbico!

What Tx strength are you mixing up the DiPel at? I start with the lightest dosing rate, then work my way up (as I'm going to do this year since I'm seeing so many white moths).
 
oldskool63

oldskool63

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I had been mixing the sprayer with about 60 grams of Dipel for almost 25 gallons up until last night. I went to 120. I also mix in Actinovate. I had a friend do the weight/acre calculations for suing my sprayer...as that is surely not my strong suit! Just finished blowing the dew off them this morning and no new brown spots that I can see. I havent been able to really look at the pistils but so far so good.
I had read that Spinosad is totally inert within 48 hours, is that what makes people say it's ok to spray up until actual harvest? I can't find any real data to support that. I have a few strains that will go mid Oct...but some are coming down or at least top cut in the next 10 to 14 days. In your opinion, too late for spinosad or not?
Thanks again for the reply!
 
Seamaiden

Seamaiden

Living dead girl
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No, I don't think it's too late at all. IIRC, sunlight is what kills the bacteria in Bt mixtures, but I don't recall reading that about spinosad. I think it's ok to spray up til harvest for other reasons, having to do with human health, but don't hold me to that.
 
oldskool63

oldskool63

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Hey Sea...Thanks for the reply...the most I can find on Dipel is...that it has the lowest PHI (per harvest interval) allowed by law. Apparently each state has different intervals but the label states up to harvest. I am not growing fruit but it is something I will ingest. I am confident that as legalization expands there will be much more research done and cannabis specific standards set...has anyone else sent the same sample to 2 different labs for testing?!?!? LOL...I digress...I did find this chart for fruits trees...
http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/cpg/Preharvest_Intervals
I like the Zero day intervals in the Kurstaki strain...the 2 products with spinosad in them had PHI's of 1-14 days. I haven't researched those specific products to determine the % of spinosad but I will. I think I will just increase the frequency of the Dipel at this juncture and continue to learn more about these little buggers and the best products for my end goals.
 
royfree2grow

royfree2grow

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Hey Sea...Thanks for the reply...the most I can find on Dipel is...that it has the lowest PHI (per harvest interval) allowed by law. Apparently each state has different intervals but the label states up to harvest. I am not growing fruit but it is something I will ingest. I am confident that as legalization expands there will be much more research done and cannabis specific standards set...has anyone else sent the same sample to 2 different labs for testing?!?!? LOL...I digress...I did find this chart for fruits trees...
http://www.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/cpg/Preharvest_Intervals
I like the Zero day intervals in the Kurstaki strain...the 2 products with spinosad in them had PHI's of 1-14 days. I haven't researched those specific products to determine the % of spinosad but I will. I think I will just increase the frequency of the Dipel at this juncture and continue to learn more about these little buggers and the best products for my end goals.

Nice chart! it also lists azadirachtin @0d PHI for all crops so i guess im good with spraying Neemix 4.5 this late... also works for Budworms btw.
 
oldskool63

oldskool63

68
18
Yeah buddy...I was up late with that chart! If nothing else it has opened my eyes further to how much there is to learn this winter! Very fortunately it's still going to be a good year, for us on the Farm. Yet, I already see so many opportunities to make things better, easier, and more efficient for next year! Happy growing, harvesting, medicating, and partying to ALL!
 
B

barefoot

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Late stage I wouldn't spray anything on flowers........best bet is to get them early am hr's when they stretchin' out before sun hits 'em..........yes ......manual labor it is.......becomes mornin' routine after watering..........


ganj on.......
 
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