Cal/mag Probs With Soul Synthetics Line? Help!

[BigBlueBuds]

Hey ery buddy!

I have grown for 4 years using the soul synthetics line from aurora innovations. And capulators bennies brewed into a tea. I also use there soiless mix. I have had very good success and considered myself a pretty good grower..
I used the tap water in Seattle with great success.

I moved out of the city. I have well water, it's stinky like sulfur and tested over 150ppm's. So I got an RO filter. Now my waters 0ppm.

So last run was my worst ever, less than 1&1/2 per 1000 watts, in the city I would get over 2 with the same flavors. My current run I'm bout to flip to 12/12, but shat is not right. Seeing yellow on the edges of leaves. Getting worried. I have been adding .5 ml per gallon of mineral matrix to make up for lack of in the ro water, but it must not be enough. I'm gonna run out first thing in the morn to grab some cal/mag to add to the drink hoping that helps.

Basically I'm feeling really uncertain and nervous.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.

*should I add cal/mag?
*what brand at what concentration?
* should I foliar spray?
* what would you do?

Thanks in advance
Peace and love to all my fellow farmers!

 

[Seamaiden]

I think that you probably do need to add back Ca and Mg. I use them separately. BioLink 6% Ca (organic) and Epsom salt, alternate feedings.

Either can be given as foliars, know that Ca is immobile and must be laid down in plant tissues from the start, whereas Mg is mobile and can be given at any time.

I can't offer more advice beyond this, not without knowing more about how the plants are behaving.

 

[BigBlueBuds]

Thanks for speedy response!

Plants were doing fine in 2gal pots.
Transplanted to 7gal in soiless mix and watered lightly with tea.
Next day watered lightly with food about 3/4 strength.
Started bubbling another tea .25 ml extreme serene, .25 ml trinity per gal.. And some oregonism xl. Only bubbled a few hrs, looked like they were thirsty so watered after only 6 hrs of bubbles. Next day things didn't look 100%. Didn't do anything that day. then back to 3/4 nutes day after.
Edges of leaves showing slight yellowing, plants look happy otherwise i.e. No real curling or drooping, there reaching up nicely. Basically only some discoloration. New growth alittle pale, more than I like. Affecting mostly mid and new growth, most large healthy fan leaves look nice green without the yellow edges.

I'm thinking to spray one plant with each of what u recommended. See how they respond. Which ever looks better put that in the next watering...
What do u think?
Thanks!

 

[Seamaiden]

Ca must be laid down from the beginning and continuing through the plant's life, so you need to get on that ASAP. The Mg is much easier to deal with and control. Like I said, either can be given via foliar feeds if you prefer.

 

[terranovaLOS]

Back in the plant feeding days I ran successful rounds with low ppm (RO) water without calmag simply because at some concentrations, and ratios in the capillary action world there is no need to buy in to another bottle or product. So another thing concerning those two elements, is that there is definitely no Cal-Mag deficiency that exists, just a terrible pH issue that is, deeper in the topic, a cation exchange issue and a whole soil matrix that's empty ready to be filled with a pre-adjusted theory mix salt derived "nutrients"... But then again, CalMag issues are the typical beast most growers deal with simply because of bad watering techniques/strategies as well.

 

[BigBlueBuds]

So after a year of battling unknown deficiencies and each run being worst than the last I figured it out.
Tiny microscopic mites!
I looked many times under scopes and finally had a grower with 20 years experience diagnose the problem. He found the eggs.. lots of eggs. but never found a crawler.

"But then again, CalMag issues are the typical beast most growers deal with simply because of bad watering techniques/strategies as well."

My watering techniques were and are not the problem. And I absolutely did need to add a cal/mag sup back into my ro water.

I had no Ph issues.

And my soil was full of all the "pre-adjusted theory mix salt derived "nutrients" it needed.

If you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

If anyone needs advice treating this problem Im happy to share solutions. And i promise to help with compassion instead of condescending arrogance...

Of course I dont have magical piss, Im just a normal human ;)

Plants are back to looking healthy like I'm used to same schedule and nutes I always used.
So I guess nothing was wrong with the well water or nutes just the contaminated clones I got from a dirty source... Learned some BIG lessons on this one!

Peace!

 

[BigBlueBuds]

Mite Damage, and solutions.. Actually never saw a mite just many eggs but looked like mite eggs. The botanist with a masters degree took some leaves back to his lab and even showed some of his cronies at the university. No one ever saw a bug but they all agreed they were eggs. So never were able to say exactly the source of the eggs. They said they looked like spider mite eggs but were a quarter the size.. I looked at 100 leaves (@ x40,x100,x400) but never found a live critter. I saw the eggs but thought they were trichomes after finding another thread where someone had proposed eggs and was ridiculed and laughed at because everyone said they were trichomes.. They were eggs!! Gotta be careful with all these "experts" out here. Any jack ass can tell you wrong info and tend to be the most loud about it. "those who say don't know, and those who know don't say". So be careful people can send you down the wrong path real quick. Ive noticed the best help comes from those who are kind and thoughtful. If there's attitude or arrogance in there words be especially careful!

This is what the symptoms I thought were related to the well water or cal/mag issues looked like. If you think your doing something wrong but haven't changed anything start looking really close with a fancy scope. This is the beginning signs. Everything was looking great then in a matter of 2-3 days this starts. It only get worse from here :( With extra care and attention plants may seem to recover but then a few weeks and it happens again only more. I was only getting half the yield I expected and buds never filled out properly. Plants didn't drink much and also wanted light feeding. Pistils would start turning red to early week 5-6.. Plants grew slow and no vigor. I thought my water was poisoned, I thought I was incompetent, I thought the air was contaminated, I thought I had a virus or disease. Nope! bugs!

The solution was total cleaning of everything and starting with new clean clones. I sprayed with bleach, antiseptic cleaner, Physan 20. I moped floors multiple times with all for mentioned products as well as borax.
Sprayed walls, lights, cracks, everything multiple times. I heat treated up to 120 degrees for minimum 2 hours 3-4 times. I dropped 2 pyrethrum bombs every day for 4 days (8 bombs total). Maybe you'll are getting the idea. Totally nuked everything. Did everything I heard might help. My buddies thought I went a little overboard. But I think there gone?!! Oh yeah brought co2 up to 10,000 ppm several times. Of course all this was with no plants in the room. I tossed anything I didn't absolutely need including all my pots. Sanitized everything else multiple times like bottles of nutes, hose, pump, res, water wand etc...

 

[Seamaiden]

So you're saying that this mottling is related to or caused by whatever laid those eggs, as yet unidentified? Any chance your botanist friend might have an entomologist friend?

 

[BigBlueBuds]

I wish. I was actually kinda surprised that their was no consensus. Also that they weren't intrigued to look into the details further. I guess the cannabis aspect of this issue was a turn off..

I was thinking about putting leaves into mason jars under different conditions, temps, humidity's and try to hatch them fugers. But then I decided I didn't want to keep any around and have plenty other things on my plate.

It will always bother me that I'm not 100% certain. I'm still not 100% convinced. I asked him "it's not a virus?" He replied "it's not a virus". What do I know, I'm not a scientist.

I have found several threads with the exact same symptoms addressed. Not one ends with a consensus. Some trail on for many pages. The only people I found that solved the problem did a nuke cleaning and start fresh. Some seem to have to even change locations. I'm just hoping it doesn't pop back up!!
One of the other symptoms are tiny little blustery white spots under many leaves? Perhaps it is some other issue and cleaning and starting fresh just solves the prob? I wonder if it's a pest that is unknown or at least to cannabis.
The person who I got my new clones from said he dealt with the exact same issue a year before. Same symptoms, blistering, and "eggs". He spent nine months getting rid of it. He did what I described. Some of what I did he advised me with. He says he spent 100gs on his lab where he does analysis and consulting and never was able to find a crawler but also was convinced they where eggs.
Shits actually really crazy. It's an alien bug, or maybe introduced by the federal gov.. Hah lol :)

 

[ShroomKing]

Glad everything worked out.
Just one question.
Why didn't the guy with the lab hatch the mystery eggs to solve the mystery?

 

[BigBlueBuds]

Good question? I'll ask him.
He may have.

I have one plant away from my house. It's a fruity pebbles OG. I'm hoping to try to get its genetics when I have time to figure out a clean way (tissue culture, clone from apical growth?)

If people want to help me figure out a way to try to hatch some eggs. I can try and keep the whole experiment in my barn. I don't have a sterile environment or any experience in entomology. But if people think I should try and want to help I will. Not sure where to start. Don't have a whole lot of time or resources at the moment to dedicate to becoming a scientist.
But if it involves some mason jars and some cheap simple heating pads or something I'll do it.

Or... If someone else wanted to try I will mail you some specimens or something ? if you really wanted I will give you the plant. If your close by :)

My girlfriend started making fun of me because once I was told it was a pest issue I started looking all the time at leaves under the scope. I would be laying in bed trying to go to sleep and I would get out of bed and sit in the GRoom with the microscope for an hour or more. I really wanted to see something moving.
I poked the eggs with a needle and they popped, they left a line as if full of fluid? That's not a tricome or some other normal thing is it? To be honest I had a he'll of a time telling the "eggs " from tricomes. Until I started having these issues I wasn't looking at leaves very often in the scope. So I never got really comfortable with what was normal and healthy. The day I popped the egg I came up with a theory that I was witnessing the symptom of a virus/disease. Like when you have a cold your nose runs. Maybe the plat was secreting these little liquid orb snots? Looked and never found an answer ..

 

[BigBlueBuds]

Conclusion.

Id like to conclude my findings on this subject so as not to steer others in the wrong direction.

Long story short I believe now my main problem was as terranovaLOS suggested in the beginning. At the time I was not able to accept the information. I thought i had that part on lock.

Essentially as was stated "there is definitely no Cal-Mag deficiency that exists, just a terrible pH issue that is, deeper in the topic, a cation exchange issue and a whole soil matrix that's empty ready to be filled with a pre-adjusted theory mix salt derived "nutrients"..."

I had not been watering enough. In the past I ran a 50 gal res and it was perfect for my room size/ plant requirements. I stepped things up size wise and along the way mold and high humidity issues slowly through me of track and i got in a habit of watering less. Not less often per say, but less volume. After a week or so of watering my soilles mix with 30% plus runoff i saw the best improvement i could have expected.

So basically this whole time i had been not getting adequate runoff, which caused salt buildup in my soilles mix and all the other problems i was dealing with.

For the last few weeks I have not been using much cal/mag and things are looking mostly good. The only supplementation i have added is Roots Organics Elemental at a rate of 2mil per gallon once weekly (they recommend 5ml pg every feeding).
I still have some dialing to get the balance just right but I understand now that our cannabis specific nutrients have all the cal/mag they need if they don't you shouldn't be using them.

So basically the invisible bugs may have been just that. They guy who convinced me also sold me clones and perhaps he would say anything to do so. The deep clean may very well have helped with some other problems. But after awhile i saw similar problems arising on the leafs. I started getting 30% runoff and problems reversed. So doesn't sound like a bug.. It was 100% my bad watering techniques. Needless to say, once i realized I felt like a complete Moron!

So to anyone reading, this is what I have learned.
if somethings not right its likely simpler than you think..


*Get runOff! 20-30%

*Check EC in and out every time! (Once I started doing this I learned alot really quick, Like how much they are exactly eating!) I have been feeding less..

*Check PH in and out every time! (Keeping track of this showed me how the ph fluctuates throughout the grow, "veg= ph goes up in soilless, bloom= ph goes down in soilless)" Its very interesting...

*You cant really water to much, only to often.

*Once roots are established its hard to overwater a healthy plant.

*Microbes = good!

So thanks to Seamaiden, terranovaLOS, thcfarmer and my apologies to everyone for being a moron ;)
BBB