Cal Mag?

jakew215 · Aug 4, 2010

Mr.Sputnik said:
The ebay floramite is all you will need for your small garden 1 oz of floramite makes 20 something gallons of spray after it's mixed. The ebay guy is legit.

It LOOKS like a slight mag deficiency combined with an iron deficiency. I would replace the bud candy with the cheapest molasses that you can find (lots of micros in there) if you're running dirt.

It kind of looks like rust fungus as well. I've had rust before that I thought was a ca mg problem, but went away with some safer 3 in 1 spray. Look into a fungicide spray if it doesn't go away after a good flush. Use florakleen, it's cheaper and you use less of it than clearex.

I would use the liquid droplet PH tester if you're on the cheap, it does a good job. I've got a friend who runs a few dozen flood tables and he just uses the liquid ph tester.

You would think the flora nova has everything that you need in it. It needs a few things added to it to, it doesn't work stand alone like you would think. Get some silica and humates down the road, and some beneficials for that dirt. The humates help plants uptake some nutes that they might have a hard time uptaking normally.

You don't NEED an RO filter. read and make your own decision on what to do.

thanks for this info sputnik, i just read that thread too. good info there.

i think im just gonna get a cheap aquarium RO. less then a 100 bucks. i can swing that here pretty soon.

ill try getting a better PH tester tomorrow with the water.

and what is florakleen or clearex exactly? is it just a soil cleaning solution or something, or like a flushing agent...

and humates and silica for soil... i plan on amending my roots organic soil next run. what exactly should i add? i was looking at supersoil, but im worried of mixing it wrong or something so i was thinking something i would still have to feed normally but with more beneficial in the soil.

Cat Jockey · Aug 4, 2010

It LOOKS like a slight mag deficiency combined with an iron deficiency

I disagree Sigue Sigue.

the guy has a PPM of 500 4 weeks into flowering and youre telling him he has a Cal def from lockout....come on now.....he is lacking in nutes, its as simple as that...

Yea, that's right buddy. I am telling him he has a nutrient deficiency, not from lack of nutrients, but from a lock out. I am also telling him his tap water could very well be playing a role.

You know who else is telling him j wizzle? His plant. If this were OG or PG, I would have some fun with you, but it ain't, so I won't.

More reading, MORE GROWING, less typing buddy. Spare me the pride salvaging attempt - nobody is buying it. Let's not clutter up this thread and see if some farmers can help him out.

Time for some spectating instead of active participation in the Infirmary wizzle.

Toodles young padawan, I ain't interested no mo'.

j wizzle · Aug 4, 2010

Cat Jockey said:
I disagree Sigue Sigue.

Yea, that's right buddy. I am telling him he has a nutrient deficiency, not from lack of nutrients, but from a lock out. I am also telling him his tap water could very well be playing a role.

You know who else is telling him j wizzle? His plant. If this were OG or PG, I would have some fun with you, but it ain't, so I won't.

More reading, MORE GROWING, less typing buddy. Spare me the pride salvaging attempt - nobody is buying it. Let's not clutter up this thread and see if some farmers can help him out.

Time for some spectating instead of active participation in the Infirmary wizzle.

Toodles young padawan, I ain't interested no mo'.

listen bud...from the beginning of this thread....ive said cal def, not mites, or any of the shit your were trying to say it was.

now finally youve figured out its cal def after calling it a few other things earlier in this thread..

now youre saying its a lockout....but if there arent enough nutes in the first place, how is it going to lockout?

you may be correct, the cal MAY be locked out, but when there is only 20% of the needed cal to begin with, it doesnt really matter if its locked out or not...

Cat Jockey · Aug 4, 2010

It LOOKS like a slight mag deficiency combined with an iron deficiency

I think you are wrong Sigue Sigue. I am using my iPhone as a tether right now, so downloading pics off the net ain't real fast right now.

As far as needing an RO filter, it depends. I got a grow with 900 ppm well water. I have E&F and buckets there. You tell me I don't need an RO filter for that I am going to laugh.

For me, there is no choice but an RO. It keeps you away from some bullshit nute lockouts.

If I am using any peat/perl/verc based soiless, no doubt in my mind I am using RO as I have played that game. Wanna now what one of the easiest nutes I have found to lock out using tap and soiless? Ca. Because of pH issues and the amount of Ca already in the water.

Take 100 gallons of 300 ppm tap water and see how much pH down you gotta dump in the shit just to start dropping the pH. That is becuase before the pH down can drop the pH, it first has to precipitate out the shit in the tap water making it 7.0 or slightly lower or higher.

That's a fuckin' mess of a res, before I even put nutes in it. Tap water can have a lot of Ca in it. Shit like FloraNova and Flora were developed using RO water. Use tap water and the nutes do not behave precisely as the mfg intended.

I'll read that thread and not try to make a blanket statement about it without first reading it.

Cat Jockey · Aug 4, 2010

listen bud...from the beginning of this thread....ive said cal def, not mites, or any of the shit your were trying to say it was.

You are digging yourself a hole dude. I ahve you figured out. You are a new grower who has read the internet and have had your hands on a lot less Sweet Lady Jane plants than I have. A lot.

Big whoopie, you have seen pics of Ca def in your internet travels. Not impressed. I have actually caused and cured Ca def in more than one strain at more than one time in more than one growing medis The only other thing I offered was mite damage. I also asked for a pic not under an HPS with a white background to be able to better analyze the spots. That ain't shit. That is trying to gather the neccessary data to rule out one of the two things I suggested it could be.

now finally youve figured out its cal def after calling it a few other things earlier in this thread..

Wrong see the above.

now youre saying its a lockout....but if there arent enough nutes in the first place, how is it going to lockout?

Not now meathead. I have been.

you may be correct, the cal MAY be locked out, but when there is only 20% of the needed cal to begin with, it doesnt really matter if its locked out or not...

I am correct.

I don't trust your judgement on the neccesary amount of nutes for plants you haven't seen in a garden you haven't been to.

The advice you are handing out in this forum does not come from your growing experience, it comes from reading the internet. And some of your advice sucks due to inexperience. This is obvious to me.

You start chasing me around a couple threads like you are doing in this forum and you are going to look silly dude. Cause matbe a guy growing his first crop buys your shit, but I don't dude. You are an inexperienced gardener new to the game reguritating shit you read on da net. I would prefer you to knock it off, but ...

Cat Jockey · Aug 4, 2010

Jake, forget the meter. You get RO water and follow bottle instructions on your GH nutes you won't need it.

You do need to follow my advice. The thing is, of all the advice being given, I obviously think mine is right. The big distinction is:

FOLLOWING MY ADVICE WILL NOT FUCK UP YOUR PLANTS IF I AM WRONG UNLIKE WHAT OTHERS ARE TELLING YOU TO DO.

But I am not wrong, so you should follow my advice anyway.

j wizzle · Aug 4, 2010

Cat Jockey said:
You are digging yourself a hole dude. I ahve you figured out. You are a new grower who has read the internet and have had your hands on a lot less Sweet Lady Jane plants than I have. A lot.

Big whoopie, you have seen pics of Ca def in your internet travels. Not impressed. The only other thing I offered was mite damage. I also asked for a pic not under an HPS with a white background to be able to better analyze the spots. That ain't shit. That is trying to gather the neccessary data to rule out one of the two things I suggested it could be.

Wrong see the above.

Not now meathead. I have been.

I am correct.

I don't trust your judgement on the neccesary amount of nutes for plants you haven't seen in a garden you haven't been to.

The advice you are handing out in this forum does not come from your growing experience, it comes from reading the internet. And some of your advice sucks due to inexperience. This is obvious to me.

You start chasing me around a couple threads like you are doing in this forum and you are going to look silly dude. Cause matbe a guy growing his first crop buys your shit, but I don't dude. You are an inexperienced gardener new to the game reguritating shit you read on da net. I would prefer you to knock it off, but ...

follow you around? please. you assume you are the world's best gardener. ive been to spots with more plants than youve seen, im sure of this. ive personally grown out over 30 strains, im not big time, but im not a rookie either.

all i know is this, youve previously said it was mites...it wasnt

youve said GH 3 part will put you at 2000PPMs on a .7 conversion.....wrong again, nowhere near 2000PPMs in veg or flower

ive said cal def from the begining....you agree its a cal def, however we difer on the cause of this def. i use RO water for a reason, so i dont get these lockouts, but at the same time understand that if you only have 20% nutes, it doesnt matter what gets locked out....theres not enough food no matter what gets locked out with only 20%

j wizzle · Aug 4, 2010

Cat Jockey said:
FOLLOWING MY ADVICE WILL NOT FUCK UP YOUR PLANTS IF I AM WRONG UNLIKE WHAT OTHERS ARE TELLING YOU TO DO.

so going into mid flower with only 20% nutes WONT fuck up your plants???

Cat Jockey · Aug 4, 2010

Knock it off wizzle. Stop cluttering the thread. You do not know what you are talking about. You don't have much growing experience. You can fool somebody having a problem on their first crop but you ain't gonna bullshit someone like me who has been doing this for a while. Both growing weed and hanging out on weed hnaging out on weed sites. I know I am not the only one on this site that can say they were talking about these things on da net 10 years ago.

It is over. Give it up.

You need to read. Start here, where a lot of us did:

http://www.greenpassion.org/OG-FAQ/index.html

Aaaahhh. That page brings back memeories, doesn't it old school farmers. The Happy Days. The thrill is gone, the excited feeling of logging on to see the newest C-22 or NGB thread and what that growers tweaks were. The cash croppers .... It's all gone. Now it is time to give back a bit, share what knowledge I have about certain things and make sure all these newbies like wizzle don't fuck up things for people.

I really am done dude. No more from me, but I ma sure we can all expect more stupid post in return, which I will neither read nor respond to.

j wizzle · Aug 4, 2010

Cat Jockey said:
I really am done dude. No more from me, but I ma sure we can all expect more stupid post in return, which I will neither read nor respond to.

i spotted the problem, gave advice on a nute line im familiar with...thats all i can do...

i did all this without the name calling and ego trip too. take care guys

Mr.Sputnik · Aug 4, 2010

Clearex and florakleen are salt leaching solutions designed to bring out precipitated salts and salt lockup from your grow medium into your runoff water. Florakleen is made by general hydro and clearex is made by botanicare. I'm loyal to general hydro myself as their products seem to be just as good if not better than most and the price is lower.

We're all agreeing that you should flush your plants out using a salt leaching solution. there's a deficiency or a lockup that's causing the issue, we're agreeing on this.

I usually run about 3 gallons of mixed salt leaching solution, followed by a couple of gallons of straight water to clean the solution out, followed by a fert watering adjusted to proper PH (6.2-6.4 IMO)

my problem with RO filters is they take FOREVER to fill your container. I prefer a sediment filter followed by a 1 micron drinking water filter as a good compromise between speed, water quality, price, and servicability. Check that thread again to see the setup I use I'm about to update it. it's about $70 worth of parts from the hardware store.

I like the roots dirt the best. I would throw some GH rare earth in there and some ascophyllum nodosum kelp meal and leave it at that.

How heavy are you running the nova? I usually use a tablespoon per plant every other watering in a 7 gallon dirt container. Make sure you shake the living shit out of the nova any time you want to take some out. I don't care if it's been sitting for 3 minutes shake that shit again. Mix it in a glass with warm tap so all of the minerals dissolve into liquid and then mix that with your water.

If you don't shake the shit out of the nova or mix it directly into cold water (it won't dissolve) you will definitely get some weird lockout and growth problems, I should have mentioned that earlier.

..Oh great, another CJ'd thread. Wizzle don't worry, CJ does this he has ego problems.

jakew215 · Aug 4, 2010

Mr.Sputnik said:
Clearex and florakleen are salt leaching solutions designed to bring out precipitated salts and salt lockup from your grow medium into your runoff water. Florakleen is made by general hydro and clearex is made by botanicare. I'm loyal to general hydro myself as their products seem to be just as good if not better than most and the price is lower.

We're all agreeing that you should flush your plants out using a salt leaching solution. there's a deficiency or a lockup that's causing the issue, we're agreeing on this.

my problem with RO filters is they take FOREVER to fill your container. I prefer a sediment filter followed by a 1 micron drinking water filter as a good compromise between speed, water quality, price, and servicability. Check that thread again to see the setup I use I'm about to update it. it's about $70 worth of parts from the hardware store.

I like the roots dirt the best. I would throw some GH rare earth in there and some ascophyllum nodosum kelp meal and leave it at that.

How heavy are you running the nova? I usually use a tablespoon per plant every other watering in a 7 gallon dirt container. Make sure you shake the living shit out of the nova any time you want to take some out. I don't care if it's been sitting for 3 minutes shake that shit again. Mix it in a glass with warm tap so all of the minerals dissolve into liquid and then mix that with your water.

If you don't shake the shit out of the nova or mix it directly into cold water (it won't dissolve) you will definitely get some weird lockout and growth problems, I should have mentioned that earlier.

..Oh great, another CJ'd thread. Wizzle don't worry, CJ does this he has ego problems.

awesome thanks again sputnik. ill pick up some RO water for now and finish this grow out with some jugs.

and to be honest i really dont know how much im feeding each plant. im bad at keeping track. i was @ 2.5ml per gallon per plant for a while. i might have gone as high as 5-7ml per gal.

and yeah i give the nutes a goooood shake for a least five minutes then stir it into a cup of water with a spoon then into my gallon of cool water.

how many ML per gallon should i be using. i really dont know how exactly to feed them and shit.

like my friends take there nute gallon, pour it in the soil then pour some more regular water on top of that. it just seems to me that this would just dilute your nutrient mix that you just made up.

i guess my question is how do you guys hand feed? and like how much total liquid do you give them for each plant. i use five gal containers and usually give them about 2 gallons of feed/water. is this too much. i get a few cups of run off usually.

i also keep my nutes in the refrigerator @ about 60* is this bad? make it difficult to dissolve in the water?

Seamaiden · Aug 4, 2010

This is why it's so important to learn to read the plants and, in the beginning at least, learn to keep a log. When I worked at a public aquarium I was taught to be very stringent in logging everything because it really can be of paramount importance in not only stopping a present problem, but preventing it from happening again.

Let me give you a for instance; my first coco run I tried someone's 'tried & true' recipe. I followed it exactly as others have done and had great results using the exact same amounts. Remembering that this instance is coco (things happen faster than in soil with coco) and in a week I could tell that I was pushing way way way too much food, so I had to start dialing things back. I couldn't have done it to the point where I *knew* 3mls of this (FN Bloom, it just so happens) on that day and 5mls of that on this day for any specific girls if I hadn't kept some brief log notes. Especially... ESPECIALLY with regard to logging parameters. Don't try to go from memory, especially once you need to go two, three, four weeks back.

I've gotta put bells on what Mr. Sputnik said about shaking the Floranova, it is thick and stuff seems to settle out.

jakew215 · Aug 5, 2010

i have a fairly detailed journal, i have an entry for everyday whether i did something or not.

i just havent kept track of my feeding dosages so accurately, i got lazy sometimes and would mix 20ml into one gallon and spread that gallon between two plants and then come back with a little more fresh water.

i realize now that this is obviously not the way to do it.

and all my plants are in different stages of bloom, some need water and others dont, shits a pain. lol

Mr.Sputnik · Aug 5, 2010

Get some saucers or trays and feed from the bottom of the plant and not the top. Stop when the plants stop drinking it up and it leaves an inch or two in the saucer. I'm typically at 2-3ml per gallon feed. I alternate waterings between feeding and straight water.

jakew215 · Aug 5, 2010

Mr.Sputnik said:
Get some saucers or trays and feed from the bottom of the plant and not the top. Stop when the plants stop drinking it up and it leaves an inch or two in the saucer. I'm typically at 2-3ml per gallon feed. I alternate waterings between feeding and straight water.

feed from the bottom eh? i have never heard of doing it this way.

is this normal?

your 2-3ml is throughout the veg and budding phase? ive been feeding mine much too much then...

so how far down will my bucket be dry using this method. and take note im not arguing that it works or not, some people get offended when i question so much, so im not doing that... i just want to know why things work and how, not what just works right and do that like a robot without thought behind it...

and how do you know when to give it more water? just when the saucer dries out for a day or two?

Mr.Sputnik · Aug 5, 2010

you want your plants to develop a root mass at the bottom of the pot. Feeding from the bottom allows the plants to "drink" the water and let the soil dry out appropriately. I water them again if I can stick my finger into the dirt and the top layer of dirt is dry up past my first knuckle or I'll wait for them to droop just a tad. and I mean just a tad to where the fan leaves are at about a 60 degree angle and not a 90. The whole pot will get moist from the wicking action of the dirt, but it doesn't hurt to do the top either. Don't splash or puddle, be gentle. I don't know too many growers who water from the top. Try it out, I think it works much better.

I typically feed my plants light-moderate on the nutes, it's just my style. you'll most likely be able to get away with more than that but it's a good starting point.

The cal deficiency look is known as necrosis. You have necrosis for sure, I bet your leaves are brittle.

Seamaiden · Aug 5, 2010

I like the bottom-watering method for new cuts and seedlings, anything that doesn't have enough root mass to keep itself upright if watered/fed from over top.

jakew215 said:
i have a fairly detailed journal, i have an entry for everyday whether i did something or not.

i just havent kept track of my feeding dosages so accurately, i got lazy sometimes and would mix 20ml into one gallon and spread that gallon between two plants and then come back with a little more fresh water.

i realize now that this is obviously not the way to do it.

and all my plants are in different stages of bloom, some need water and others dont, shits a pain. lol

You can do that, but keep records of how much you fed and how much water you added. They only need to be brief, along with any observations of changes you note. You're on the way. :)

cheyenne · Aug 5, 2010

Cat Jockey said:
Everybody just hold dthe fuck on. I hope you haven't done anything yet.

You have FloraNova, which is two part. GH Flora is 3 part. Do not add CalMag.
.

FloraNova is not a 2 part nutrient. Yes there is FloraNova grow and FloraNova bloom, but its not a 2 part in the sense that flora grow, flora micro and flora bloom are a 3 part. Yes with experience you may mix the 2 together to overlap at certain points in your cycle, but they are and can be stand alone mixes. Of course its probably a good idea to add in some micro nutes and beneficials but thats another topic. Dont be fooled kids, FloraNova is not a 2 part nutrient, not in the standard sense anyway.

jakew215 · Aug 5, 2010

Mr.Sputnik said:
you want your plants to develop a root mass at the bottom of the pot. Feeding from the bottom allows the plants to "drink" the water and let the soil dry out appropriately. I water them again if I can stick my finger into the dirt and the top layer of dirt is dry up past my first knuckle or I'll wait for them to droop just a tad. and I mean just a tad to where the fan leaves are at about a 60 degree angle and not a 90. The whole pot will get moist from the wicking action of the dirt, but it doesn't hurt to do the top either. Don't splash or puddle, be gentle. I don't know too many growers who water from the top. Try it out, I think it works much better.

I typically feed my plants light-moderate on the nutes, it's just my style. you'll most likely be able to get away with more than that but it's a good starting point.

The cal deficiency look is known as necrosis. You have necrosis for sure, I bet your leaves are brittle.

YES THE LEAVES ARE BRITTLE! you nailed it on the head.

okay so what does everyone suggest i use to boost calcium?

ill definitely start watering from the bottom and just wet the top of the soil.this actually makes sense to me, kinda makes the roots stretch to the bottom of the soil...

and yes my food is a one part, i have no catalyst (micros) just a heavy ass jug of veg and bloom.

the plants are looking a little better as of last night...

Cal Mag?

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Cal Mag?

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