Cali water shortage, What`s at stake for MMJ ?

[50YardLine]

Your quick to call that stealing. I suggest you look into how old that law is that states these people are stealing, then look into how long these people have owned the water rights. You can't write law after land deeds are granted, at least in a just country.

When and where did I say, "pulling so much water that previously year-round above-ground sources are going dry." Then you ask if I think that is a problem..... Yes that would be a problem, but show me an example of that happening or are we just making up scenarios? Just because rivers are running dry, that isn't because somebody is draining them. Please show me an example of somebody damming water to the extend of running a river dry please.

Let me get this strait, because water is going dry all over the state, the people with the water rights should be forced to give up those rights for the better good of the people? That sounds real American............ I guess we differ on whether or not a government can take private property from people for the greater good. I strongly believe this isn't how America was founded.

Just a reminder, 70% of all rain water in cali goes back into the ocean. Not gray water, not filtered drinking water, not filling streams so the salmon can swim up stream and spawn. Strait to the ocean and wasted. But lets first steal from the people with water rights.........It's an emergency remember.

 

[50YardLine]

"You see the headlines that we're experiencing the 6th Great Mass Extinction on Earth? Shit like this doesn't help."

This is the first crazy thing I have heard you say. I also see headlines saying Bruce Jenner is now a girl even though he still has his man parts. Some chick is now black because she believes she is black. Are we really going to believe what the headlines are saying?

The rain in Texas over the last month was enough water to give every person on the planet (7 billion) a glass of water for 10,000 days. The world isn't ending because California is going through a tempary drought. That is just crazy talk all around SeaMaiden.....really?

 

[redlife215]

Ur welcome @Seamaiden it's funny u always gave something to whine about. I hope it isn't againot the rules to say that to a mod

 

[geologic]

MASS EXTINCTION UNDERWAY
The World Wide Web's Most Comprehensive Source
of Information on the Current Mass Extinction
http://www.mysterium.com/extinction.html
-------------------------------------------------------
"Our activities are causing a massive loss of species that has no precedent in the history of humanity and few precedents in the history of life on Earth," said lead researcher Gerardo Ceballos, a professor of conservation ecology at the National Autonomous University of Mexico and a visiting professor at Stanford University.
http://www.livescience.com/51281-sixth-mass-extinction-is-here.html
------------------------------------------------------------
The Earth has been stripped of up to 90% of its species five times before in the past 450 million years. Now it's happening again—and this time there's no rogue asteroid responsible
http://time.com/3035872/sixth-great-extinction/
------------------------------------------------------------
The modern world is experiencing a “sixth great extinction” of animal species even when the lowest estimates of extinction rates are considered, scientists have warned.

The rate of extinction for species in the 20th century was up to 100 times higher than it would have been without man’s impact, they said.

Many conservationists have been warning for years that a mass extinction event akin to the one that wiped out the dinosaurs is occurring as humans degrade and destroy habitats.

But the authors of a study published on Friday said that even when they analysed the most conservative extinction rates, the rate at which vertebrates were being lost forever was far higher than in the last five mass extinctions.
http://www.theguardian.com/environm...t-extinction-of-animal-species-say-scientists

 

[50YardLine]

Geo, did you happen to read that website? The first four stories are as follow:

Quarter of all mammals face extinction: Written 2002

"almost a quarter of the worlds mammals face extinction within 30 years."

Any evidence of this 13 years later? I do admit species are going extinct, just as they have thoughout Earths history. These claims are crazy however.

World faces mass extinction: Written in 2002

Doesn't say when, so I guess eventually it could be true. However, 13 years later no evidence of a mass extinction eminent..

Only 10% of big ocean fish remain: written 2003

Only problem with this is they were wrong, and here is a story with links to a study that show recent date.
How Many Fish are in the Ocean? Many More Than Was Thought
20-30x as much.


Lions Close to Extintion: Written 2003

Lions are still close to extinction and that is a shame. However, if you lived in Africa and your tribe was threatened, would you lower the lion population? Very sad, and 12 years later lions are still very much endangered.

However this has nothing to do with water shortage or climate change, they have been hunted into being endangered.


I really could de-bunk this all day, but I wont change any minds. All I can ask if people actually look into the claims they are making. Sure humans are responsible for species extinctions, but that doesn't mean the world is in danger of a mass dye off. In my opinion at least.

I won't de-bunk anything else, so post what you will. Got stuff to do and the wife is yelling at me to get off my ass and stay off my ass. Take it easy everybody.

 

[markscastle]

First off we are in a drought. It is not believed to be man made, but man is a factor in it`s depth to a small degree. The water shortage is believed to be largely compounded by mismanagement of the water resources we have. So t`s not the farmer but the archaic water rights and distribution laws that are causing us to run short in this time of drought. Now yes, some of us have water rights, but we all have a responsibility to share the resources we have as equally as possible. We are our brother`s keeper! This is why I choose to not use so much water at any given time as to stop the flow down stream of the spring fed creek on my property. Is that the law? well yes in this case it is but, that`s not the reason I do it. I do it because people below me also need water, including the fish that run in the stream my creek is an a tributary to. I`m sure you would appreciate my efforts if you were down stream of me! I`m not looking for conflict with anyone, I`m looking to survive and flourish the same as everyone but not at my fellow man`s demise. If need be I can cut back my growing or even stop growing for awhile if it means others would also survive the drought.

 

[Seamaiden]

You can't write law after land deeds are granted, at least in a just country.

Yes you can, especially in California. Ask the old Californios how that worked.

Then you ask if I think that is a problem..... Yes that would be a problem, but show me an example of that happening or are we just making up scenarios? Just because rivers are running dry, that isn't because somebody is draining them. Please show me an example of somebody damming water to the extend of running a river dry please.

Aren't you reading the same posts I am...? Maybe you've missed some of the other reports, too. The Triangle is known for having growers who tap into surface water supplies without a permit and very illegally. They are nothing resembling 'grandfathered' in.

Let me get this strait, because water is going dry all over the state, the people with the water rights should be forced to give up those rights for the better good of the people? That sounds real American............ I guess we differ on whether or not a government can take private property from people for the greater good. I strongly believe this isn't how America was founded.

You must not be very familiar with how eminent domain is being used in this country, either. ;)

"You see the headlines that we're experiencing the 6th Great Mass Extinction on Earth? Shit like this doesn't help."

This is the first crazy thing I have heard you say. I also see headlines saying Bruce Jenner is now a girl even though he still has his man parts. Some chick is now black because she believes she is black. Are we really going to believe what the headlines are saying?

I'm simply asking if you've seen those headlines. Beyond that, I'll ask you to check veracity on anything you read, and veracity on this (science and studies and shizzy like that) seems to be showing quite a consensus, strictly going by numbers.

But, I've got crazier shit to say than that. :D

The rain in Texas over the last month was enough water to give every person on the planet (7 billion) a glass of water for 10,000 days. The world isn't ending because California is going through a tempary drought. That is just crazy talk all around SeaMaiden.....really?

I'm sure that you, like most anyone else, don't appreciate people putting words into your mouth. I, too, am the same. Show me where I said anything like the world is ending.

I can say a few things about how seriously shitty life is going to get if we end up with water rationing as is happening to my own family in Puerto Rico. Unimaginable here, yet it's happening right now in a place that's part of the U.S.

First off we are in a drought. It is not believed to be man made, but man is a factor in it`s depth to a small degree. The water shortage is believed to be largely compounded by mismanagement of the water resources we have. So t`s not the farmer but the archaic water rights and distribution laws that are causing us to run short in this time of drought. Now yes, some of us have water rights, but we all have a responsibility to share the resources we have as equally as possible. We are our brother`s keeper! This is why I choose to not use so much water at any given time as to stop the flow down stream of the spring fed creek on my property. Is that the law? well yes in this case it is but, that`s not the reason I do it. I do it because people below me also need water, including the fish that run in the stream my creek is an a tributary to. I`m sure you would appreciate my efforts if you were down stream of me! I`m not looking for conflict with anyone, I`m looking to survive and flourish the same as everyone but not at my fellow man`s demise. If need be I can cut back my growing or even stop growing for awhile if it means others would also survive the drought.

I could not have said it better, I am very much in agreement.

 

[Seamaiden]

Ur welcome @Seamaiden it's funny u always gave something to whine about. I hope it isn't againot the rules to say that to a mod

You, follow rules? What a renegade.

 

[50YardLine]

THe underline problem is yes, I understand things like eminent domain. Yes I understand the current laws. That doesn't mean I agree with them. Here is a great example,

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/420180/visiting-kelo-lots-ten-years-later-shubhankar-chhokra

I just googled this, don't know the news source but the story is true. 10 years later after the government took homes from people they never developed the land. I believe it was Pheiser (sp, pharmaceutical company) that pulled out of the deal, and was promising huge growth in the area.

The problem is, the government doesn't always have the peoples interest at heart. I believe it's possible this water shortage is being created so water prices can climb, big business. I believe it's possible that California is somewhat in bed with these big businesses and are allowing this to happen. Making laws that aren't needed, ineffective, and Draconian in nature, that in the end will hurt the people of California, IMO.

I fully understand what your saying, so please no more negative talk about understanding. I think my point is clear, and we have our differences in opinion. Which is ok, that is how things should work, it shouldn't always be an agree-fest. Thanks for letting me state my point.

 

[50YardLine]

BTW - I believe I already quoted you in my first post about the mass extinction. I guess you didn't directly say the world is ending. However you did say the headlines are saying a mass extinction is coming, and then you asked if damming rivers are helping. Which, to me, implies that you believe damning rivers may have an effect on the upcoming mass extinction.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

 

[geologic]

Geo, did you happen to read that website? The first four stories are as follow:

You quote from a historical WEBsite started in 1998;
but not from the scientists reports of this week--
I've seen that tactic before somewhere...

 

[50YardLine]

You quote from a historical WEBsite started in 1998;
but not from the scientists reports of this week--
I've seen that tactic before somewhere...

I looked over the post I made, in which I believe your referring to, and didn't quote anything other than the front head line stories of the web link you posted....... Not sure at all what you mean.....

Or are you referring to the story about 20 - 30x the sea life story, which was written this year? I mentioned links to the study, which was conducted in 2010 and finished being analyzed in 2013..... here is that study. http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/140207/ncomms4271/full/ncomms4271.html

Science isn't set in stone you know? It's the best current theory until proven wrong, and the theories you posted are outdated for the reasons I posted, and need to be revised IMO. I posted the current studies which indicate these facts.

I don't understand your post really at all.

 

[geologic]

I don't understand your post really at all.

Of course you don't.

It took quite a while for me to decide
a. If I was going to include the historical <you may say hysterical> WEBsite
and
b. If it should at the top or the bottom

I chose the top, which of course was the correct decision...

...You pick-and-chose from there while "ignoring" everything from
THIS WEEK:

http://www.livescience.com/51281-sixth-mass-extinction-is-here.html
http://time.com/3035872/sixth-great-extinction/


-----------------------------------------------------

http://www.mysterium.com/extinction.html
...can you say TrollBait--
I thought you could...

 

[Seamaiden]

I believe it's possible this water shortage is being created so water prices can climb,

Then you need to talk to some of my neighbors whose wells are already silting up. In this location, where everyone is on a private well, you're going to suggest that the government is somehow behind all of this? The neighbor who already ran one well dry during a normal year...?

Like I'm saying, we're going to have to get in line with other states who already appreciate water woes. And, we can look to Australia to learn how it can be done and done well. Just because they're upside down doesn't mean they're backwards!

I fully understand what your saying, so please no more negative talk about understanding. I think my point is clear, and we have our differences in opinion. Which is ok, that is how things should work, it shouldn't always be an agree-fest. Thanks for letting me state my point.

:) Likewise. Let's just keep it friendly.

I'm not going to address the other interpretations you've made of the science you've decided to quote, for example the amount of fish in the sea. I'm simply going to ask that you find yourself a marine biologist or oceanographer for a friend who'll explain it to you.

Here are some headlines for people to peruse. There are stories to go with the headlines. ;)

Be sure to take a look at how the properties and environment are trashed.

http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2015/jun/26/island-mountain-marijuana-grow-raid-details-provid/

 

[Dagwood]

I read all sorts of crazy speculation that this water shortage is caused by the government. It's a drought people. Permanent snowfields that I've known in the Sierra Nevada for over thirty years are gone, vanished. If you fly over the mountains you'll see vast expanses of water stressed trees that are dying. We are now in a new climate pattern. Don't expect this to be temporary. Think in terms of the Oklahoma Dust Bowl. When your well pump starts sucking air there's not a whole lot you can do. It is going to break the back of California's economy. There will be refugees. People in affected communities will lose their jobs and be unable to sell their houses because there will be no buyers. The state government will try and take serious actions, irregardless of the protests of keyboard constitutional scholars. But it will break California's back. Maybe this year's El Nino will give us a reprieve, but it will be temporary. Our world is changing in a big way right before our eyes, but nobody wants to see.

 

[50YardLine]

You guys twist my words so badly. I am not saying the government caused less rain.......WTF? They do however limit the rain they collect. It may be in the name of conserving natural lands, and not building more dames. It could be not catching the 70% of rainfall that goes back into the ocean, However that is the core responsibility of government, is to provide these things for it's people. Every land on Earth will go through drought. The reason the human race is so successful is because we can overcome things like drought, with human innovation. Blaming pot growers for damming the rivers pretending they are using up all the water is a ridiculous argument. Name one river where pot growers are running the river dry? Then lets calculate the water flow of that river, and it's volume. We are talking billions of gallons of water, growers just don't use that much water, period. It's just another witch hunt.

 

[Seamaiden]

Blaming pot growers for damming the rivers pretending they are using up all the water is a ridiculous argument. Name one river where pot growers are running the river dry?

Apparently you didn't look at a single link I provided. This one has some rather painful information within, especially if you want people to be allowed to keep doing what they've been doing no matter what.



I didn't say they're running rivers dry, I said they're running surface waters that had previously run year-round dry. And we've got at *least* one poster here who not only confirms that, but who has stated clearly that he participates in it.

So, what were you sayin' again...?

 

[Blaze]

Blaming pot growers for damming the rivers pretending they are using up all the water is a ridiculous argument. Name one river where pot growers are running the river dry?

Multiple tributaries of the Eel river such as Outlet Creek, Salmon Creek, and many others have been run completely dry last year and the year before that, and will likely run dry again this year. Twenty four tributaries of the South Fork of the Eel have now been run dry according the Fish and Game. This is a direct result of large scale illegal gardens drawing from the rivers.

This is not because of people growing their 25 plants, or even a few hundred plants. We are talking tens of thousands of plants using millions of gallons of water on a daily basis. Did you see the recent raids in the Island Mountain area? Just in that one small area 86,578 plants were eradicated in a 4 day period and over 4,000 lbs of processed dried cannabis was seized along with several weapons and over 50,000 rounds of ammunition. This was on only 20 properties in total. The area was specifically target due to the massive environmental damage that had been observed, and the fact that the local tributaries had been run dry due to illegal diversions and water theft.

Estimates from the Mendocino Sheriffs Office put the water consumption for the gardens eradicated at over half a million gallons of water a day, which in my opinion, is probably a very conservative estimate. Over an average of a 5 month growing season that is 75 million gallons of water stolen, just from this one relatively small area. When you add up all the water being stolen, over all the watersheds in the emerald triangle, then yes, it probably is in the billions of gallons. Water and environmental abuse from shady, irresponsible growers are running our local rivers dry, that is an undeniable fact.

 

[Seamaiden]

I just got a post in my news feed, the Upper San Joaquin is basically run dry. Apparently the water agency down there has sent out a notice to all the pre-1914 folks, aka the grandfathered people, telling them they have to stop drawing. Oh! (we'll whine for them) But we're grandfathered in!!

Ah, but the water's gone.

Like I been sayin'...

 

[markscastle]

I still think there is a market for dehydrated water ! Simple foil packs sold by volume not weight. Directions open foil pack at top, add one oz. of water, shake, wait one min. and done. Provides on oz. of water per pack.