Calling B.S. on "Must decarb or it won't work" but open to education

[Narsbars]

Everything I read tells me I always have to decarb. Well,......I took 2oz of fresh frozen bud and 7 grams of 2nd rate dry screened hash along with an oz of old (2 years) bud to make a concentrate.
I pushed everything in two big mason jars and added a total of 16oz of 200 proof ethanol. I only shook the ingredients for a minute. I ended up with a pale green liquid that I assume was only made up of the trichomes on the buds and minimal chlorophyll. I strained everything through a coffee filter and slowly put it in small glass containers I had previously gotten CDB in. Yes they were washed. Each container only holds 1 1/2 table spoons. To make a long story short the whole 16oz of liquid (about 14oz recovered) evaporated down to about 4 tablespoons of thick, oily liquid. A rice grain under the tongue will give you a 4 hour totally splattered effect and come on in 30 minutes leveling out at an hour. Any more and you wake up trying how to remember how to get out of bed in the morning.
It is my belief that I have not decarbed this product other than what little may have happened by aging the old bud, but I am looking for someone to educate me how I have produced this exceptionally powerful product. Did I decarb it without knowing?

 

[growsince79]

Everything I read tells me I always have to decarb. Well,......I took 2oz of fresh frozen bud and 7 grams of 2nd rate dry screened hash along with an oz of old (2 years) bud to make a concentrate.
I pushed everything in two big mason jars and added a total of 16oz of 200 proof ethanol. I only shook the ingredients for a minute. I ended up with a pale green liquid that I assume was only made up of the trichomes on the buds and minimal chlorophyll. I strained everything through a coffee filter and slowly put it in small glass containers I had previously gotten CDB in. Yes they were washed. Each container only holds 1 1/2 table spoons. To make a long story short the whole 16oz of liquid (about 14oz recovered) evaporated down to about 4 tablespoons of thick, oily liquid. A rice grain under the tongue will give you a 4 hour totally splattered effect and come on in 30 minutes leveling out at an hour. Any more and you wake up trying how to remember how to get out of bed in the morning.
It is my belief that I have not decarbed this product other than what little may have happened by aging the old bud, but I am looking for someone to educate me how I have produced this exceptionally powerful product. Did I decarb it without knowing?

How did you evaporate the alcohol?

 

[Narsbars]

How did you evaporate the alcohol?

Air dry, no fan, about 74 degrees Farenheit, in a dark cupboard.

 

[growsince79]

Air dry, no fan, about 74 degrees Farenheit, in a dark cupboard.

Maybe the alcohol decarbs it. IDK I know I can eat dry kief and it won't work unless its decarbed.

 

[MT_Smoke420]

Everything I read tells me I always have to decarb. Well,......I took 2oz of fresh frozen bud and 7 grams of 2nd rate dry screened hash along with an oz of old (2 years) bud to make a concentrate.
I pushed everything in two big mason jars and added a total of 16oz of 200 proof ethanol. I only shook the ingredients for a minute. I ended up with a pale green liquid that I assume was only made up of the trichomes on the buds and minimal chlorophyll. I strained everything through a coffee filter and slowly put it in small glass containers I had previously gotten CDB in. Yes they were washed. Each container only holds 1 1/2 table spoons. To make a long story short the whole 16oz of liquid (about 14oz recovered) evaporated down to about 4 tablespoons of thick, oily liquid. A rice grain under the tongue will give you a 4 hour totally splattered effect and come on in 30 minutes leveling out at an hour. Any more and you wake up trying how to remember how to get out of bed in the morning.
It is my belief that I have not decarbed this product other than what little may have happened by aging the old bud, but I am looking for someone to educate me how I have produced this exceptionally powerful product. Did I decarb it without knowing?

I've been on a similar page as you. Have been messing with concentrates a few different ways, haven't gotten my temperature over 180 F and all of my products have turned out potent.

Unless placebo effect knocked me out for 10 hours lol.

 

[Moe.Red]

Did I decarb it without knowing?

Yes, at least partially.

It sounds like the feedstock other than the fresh frozen has at least partially decarboxylated with time.


Lets do some math...

An average rice grain is 21mg.
A good - some would say heavy dose of THC via smoking is 10mg.
When you eat THC, the liver processes it into a different chemical. Per Joe Rogan:

"When you eat [marijuana], it's processed by your liver and it produces something called 11-Hydroxy metabolite. That's five times more psychoactive than THC ... and it lets you talk to dolphins."

So someone with "normal" tolerance who gets high on 10mg delta 9 THC (the decarbed version of the THC acid) will get hella high on the same amount eaten, roughly 5 times higher.

So assuming you are ingesting about 20mg of extract, you only need 2mg of that to be decarbed to send you to the moon. I think that is what is happening here.


imagine how this would respond if you actually did decarb? Holy shit batman.

If you want to prove it to yourself, it is not too late to decarb this extract. Take a normal 20mg dose, decarb it, then eat it. Put on a helmet first and make sure you have spare sick days to call in just in case.


If you wanna talk the science behind the decarb - lets do it.

 

[Moe.Red]

Or if you don't want to decarb, put your 21mg into a dab rig and see what happens. My only ask is that you come back and type into this thread while you are on it so we can all giggle a little.

PS - I once lost an entire weekend to edibles when I didn't understand all this and made some big mistakes. Funny now, scary as shit then.

 

[growsince79]

Yes, at least partially.

It sounds like the feedstock other than the fresh frozen has at least partially decarboxylated with time.


Lets do some math...

An average rice grain is 21mg.
A good - some would say heavy dose of THC via smoking is 10mg.
When you eat THC, the liver processes it into a different chemical. Per Joe Rogan:

"When you eat [marijuana], it's processed by your liver and it produces something called 11-Hydroxy metabolite. That's five times more psychoactive than THC ... and it lets you talk to dolphins."

So someone with "normal" tolerance who gets high on 10mg delta 9 THC (the decarbed version of the THC acid) will get hella high on the same amount eaten, roughly 5 times higher.

So assuming you are ingesting about 20mg of extract, you only need 2mg of that to be decarbed to send you to the moon. I think that is what is happening here.


imagine how this would respond if you actually did decarb? Holy shit batman.

If you want to prove it to yourself, it is not too late to decarb this extract. Take a normal 20mg dose, decarb it, then eat it. Put on a helmet first and make sure you have spare sick days to call in just in case.


If you wanna talk the science behind the decarb - lets do it.

Depends on the person and his liver. If I take a hit of kief, I get a buzz right away. If I eat one hit worth of debarbed kief, I won't feel a thing. It's not 5 times stronger because it doesn't enter the system as fast as smoking. I make my edibles with 250mg which is probably around 125mg thc. Takes me half a cookie to get medicated, or a whole one at night. lol

 

[Ponky]

I've never gotten high eating edibles. Tried a lot. And I mean a lot. The only time I ever got high from eating weed my friend made oil out of buds with alcohol and the mixed it with a tube of pre-made cookie dough. I was high. It was disgusting. Like eating gross brown hash oil. So I am curious as to why. I know I'm immune to it. But why did I get high just that one time?

 

[Moe.Red]

Depends on the person and his liver. If I take a hit of kief, I get a buzz right away. If I eat one hit worth of debarbed kief, I won't feel a thing. It's not 5 times stronger because it doesn't enter the system as fast as smoking. I make my edibles with 250mg which is probably around 125mg thc. Takes me half a cookie to get medicated, or a whole one at night. lol

So I drew a kindergartner picture to try to explain this. I'm childish, so makes perfect sense.

In terms of psychoactivity, the area under the curve is what is important.

Does it make sense?

 

[growsince79]

I've never gotten high eating edibles. Tried a lot. And I mean a lot. The only time I ever got high from eating weed my friend made oil out of buds with alcohol and the mixed it with a tube of pre-made cookie dough. I was high. It was disgusting. Like eating gross brown hash oil. So I am curious as to why. I know I'm immune to it. But why did I get high just that one time?

Put 1/4g of kief in a oreo cookie and put it in the oven on 240 for 20 min. Write us back about an hour after you eat it. LOL

 

[MT_Smoke420]

Yes, at least partially.

It sounds like the feedstock other than the fresh frozen has at least partially decarboxylated with time.


Lets do some math...

An average rice grain is 21mg.
A good - some would say heavy dose of THC via smoking is 10mg.
When you eat THC, the liver processes it into a different chemical. Per Joe Rogan:

"When you eat [marijuana], it's processed by your liver and it produces something called 11-Hydroxy metabolite. That's five times more psychoactive than THC ... and it lets you talk to dolphins."

So someone with "normal" tolerance who gets high on 10mg delta 9 THC (the decarbed version of the THC acid) will get hella high on the same amount eaten, roughly 5 times higher.

So assuming you are ingesting about 20mg of extract, you only need 2mg of that to be decarbed to send you to the moon. I think that is what is happening here.


imagine how this would respond if you actually did decarb? Holy shit batman.

If you want to prove it to yourself, it is not too late to decarb this extract. Take a normal 20mg dose, decarb it, then eat it. Put on a helmet first and make sure you have spare sick days to call in just in case.


If you wanna talk the science behind the decarb - lets do it.

So you're saying if i mixed grain alcohol from freezer with flower at room temp, strained, then cooked off alcohol at around 180 F for ~30 minutes the final product may just be partially decarbed? Will still get the effects but just not the full potential potency?

So if i decarbed the oil and made another batch of gummies with the same amount of oil, they could potentially be stronger?

 

[Moe.Red]

I've never gotten high eating edibles. Tried a lot. And I mean a lot. The only time I ever got high from eating weed my friend made oil out of buds with alcohol and the mixed it with a tube of pre-made cookie dough. I was high. It was disgusting. Like eating gross brown hash oil. So I am curious as to why. I know I'm immune to it. But why did I get high just that one time?

In my experience, people vary far more drastically in terms of the effects of edibles person to person than they do smoking person to person. There are tons of reasons for this.

I guess think of it like this - its like the difference between IV meds like morphine and their edible counterparts like Percocet. IV is very fast up and fast burn off because it is not reliant on your digestive tract, liver, etc. Same with weed - when you smoke it the effects are nearly instantaneous because the cannabinoids are pumped directly into the blood stream unchanged and seconds later are in the brain.

 

[growsince79]

So I drew a kindergartner picture to try to explain this. I'm childish, so makes perfect sense.

View attachment 1209936

In terms of psychoactivity, the area under the curve is what is important.

Does it make sense?

Makes perfect sense. Looks pretty right by my liver except the smoke graph would be higher. I'd have to do some trials, but I'm pretty sure I need to eat at lest 6-10 hits worth before I feel it. Maybe this weekend I'll see how many hits I get from 1/4g

 

[Moe.Red]

So you're saying if i mixed grain alcohol from freezer with flower at room temp, strained, then cooked off alcohol at around 180 F for ~30 minutes the final product may just be partially decarbed? Will still get the effects but just not the full potential potency?

So if i decarbed the oil and made another batch of gummies with the same amount of oil, they could potentially be stronger?

That is correct.

85% decarb for THCA --> THC takes approx 30 minutes at 125C. Full decarb with some losses of cannabinoids happens at about 45 mins. Obviously there are variables there...

I have a series of videos around here somewhere where I tested different times and temps on 4 or 5 strains and did testing after each decarb to determine which is best. That was pretty interesting to me.

 

[MT_Smoke420]

That is correct.

85% decarb for THCA --> THC takes approx 30 minutes at 125C. Full decarb with some losses of cannabinoids happens at about 45 mins. Obviously there are variables there...

I have a series of videos around here somewhere where I tested different times and temps on 4 or 5 strains and did testing after each decarb to determine which is best. That was pretty interesting to me.

Awesome, thanks for the info.

I am trying to be able to dial in pretty consistent gummies made from my trim. Was going to get the last batch potency tested but may hold off now until i decarb the flower prior to extracting just to try to eliminate as many variables as possible.

 

[Moe.Red]

Awesome, thanks for the info.

I am trying to be able to dial in pretty consistent gummies made from my trim. Was going to get the last batch potency tested but may hold off now until i decarb the flower prior to extracting just to try to eliminate as many variables as possible.

Good luck, this stuff is too fun.

I've started to throw away trim and just use buds to make my product more consistent. But this is private use and I can only use a tiny fraction of what I grow, so...

If you do this a lot and have a 3d printer, I got some files for you to print out that makes the Eth extractions much easier.

 

[hawkman]

In making cannabutter just place cooker (crock pot) on high (180-200 degrees) for 1 hr then 3 hrs, on low. Have use the Magic Butter Machine were they say de-cerb in oven then put in the butter machine - to be honest better from the crock pot rememebr years ago (70yr) mixing pot with pound cake mix it then baked it WOW !!!

 

[MT_Smoke420]

Good luck, this stuff is too fun.

I've started to throw away trim and just use buds to make my product more consistent. But this is private use and I can only use a tiny fraction of what I grow, so...

If you do this a lot and have a 3d printer, I got some files for you to print out that makes the Eth extractions much easier.

Unfortunately I do not have a 3d printer. If i have ~10 grams of concentrate left over that i did not decarb prior to making, can i just put the concentrate in the oven @ 250F for ~30 minutes to decarb?

 

[Moe.Red]

Unfortunately I do not have a 3d printer. If i have ~10 grams of concentrate left over that i did not decarb prior to making, can i just put the concentrate in the oven @ 250F for ~30 minutes to decarb?

yup.

While decarbing you will see bubbles if something is happening. Decarboxylation is the removal of the carboxyl group using heat energy as the motive force. The result is the release of CO2. That is what causes bubbles.

Put it in a clear glass container and keep your flashlight handy so you can watch the process. Bubbles = getting stronger. No bubbles = all the carboxyl groups are gone.