Calling Out The Organic Growing Machines

[Ecompost]

The concept I got from Teaming with Microbes was that you can manipulate the cycling of nutrients. Say that you are about to start requiring more phosphate for flowering, you can use a bacteria dom tea, then at next watering you add a protozoa soup in with the next batch. The protozoa help cycle the locked up nuts in the bacteria, then when bacteria numbers start to dip the protozoa will eat other predators of bacteria, eventually allowing the bacteria to build back up.
Is my understanding correct?

more or less, you are creating something called a microbial feedback loop. You can find more about this on-line, but essentially yes.
So when we combine CO2 with water, we get a mild acid. It is this mild acid that etches minerals like P, K, Ca, mg, Fe and so on from clays, bedrock, and or organic matter in the soil.
In soil, the CO2 comes from microbes as they breathe and from plant roots. The water from the rain or us right? Add them together and get acid.
Acid mobilizes many plant growth elements. The bacteria scoop these ions up, especially cations, they do this because microbes are mainly gram negative, so they attract positive ions and can hold them on their bodies which they use as food, or to create things to access food.
As the bacteria themselves live, shit piss and sweat if you like, the excretions can be used by our plants. If we have enough CO2, we can say we have enough aerobic bacteria. If we dont or cant measure CO2, then we have little to no mineralization and nothing is being converted to plant food, ergo life stalls.
At times we get things which resemble a bait ball in the sea, Large groups of bacteria, covered in plant growth/ health ions, get hammered by larger protozoa, this results in a mass of soup, bits of microbes, ions and all sorts of enzymes being released in to the root zone.
plants are also able to secrete certain exudates from the roots and these can be used to attract say yeast based microbes, oince there are enough of these in an area, the plant literally swallow them whole. This process is called Rhizophagy.
All of the ways in which plants interact with microbes is not known, we are just beginning to unlock this so expect youir mind to change as the discoveries come in to us and new ideas are present.

I know some people are finding this hard to square, but the only way to know if your living organic system is working well is to measure the rates of CO2 from the soil you are using. You can count microbes with a scope, but if you aint got CO2 you aint got microbes working for you period. Add all the organic inputs you like, this fact wont change while CO2 rates are low.

 

[Ecompost]

Thank you for the info. That presentation was informative. I like her ending thesis that over time it may become a beneficial relationship between biochar and mycorrhiza, but in the short run it can cause yield loses.
I saw your post a little while ago about the companion plants you use and i have already made note of them. I was already planning to use clover, but didn't think/know about the others. Has anyone tried growing mint along with their plants?

the biggest arse ache with this is trying to get consistent funding, when funding is it self hijacked in favor of chemical, mechanical and or GMO answers to farming. No one wants to undo the economy, even if this means we are all saved :-)

 

[GreenHawk]

more or less, you are creating something called a microbial feedback loop. You can find more about this on-line, but essentially yes.
So when we combine CO2 with water, we get a mild acid. It is this mild acid that etches minerals like P, K, Ca, mg, Fe and so on from clays, bedrock, and or organic matter in the soil.
In soil, the CO2 comes from microbes as they breathe and from plant roots. The water from the rain or us right? Add them together and get acid.
Acid mobilizes many plant growth elements. The bacteria scoop these ions up, especially cations, they do this because microbes are mainly gram negative, so they attract positive ions and can hold them on their bodies which they use as food, or to create things to access food.
As the bacteria themselves live, shit piss and sweat if you like, the excretions can be used by our plants. If we have enough CO2, we can say we have enough aerobic bacteria. If we dont or cant measure CO2, then we have little to no mineralization and nothing is being converted to plant food, ergo life stalls.
At times we get things which resemble a bait ball in the sea, Large groups of bacteria, covered in plant growth/ health ions, get hammered by larger protozoa, this results in a mass of soup, bits of microbes, ions and all sorts of enzymes being released in to the root zone.
plants are also able to secrete certain exudates from the roots and these can be used to attract say yeast based microbes, oince there are enough of these in an area, the plant literally swallow them whole. This process is called Rhizophagy.
All of the ways in which plants interact with microbes is not known, we are just beginning to unlock this so expect youir mind to change as the discoveries come in to us and new ideas are present.

I know some people are finding this hard to square, but the only way to know if your living organic system is working well is to measure the rates of CO2 from the soil you are using. You can count microbes with a scope, but if you aint got CO2 you aint got microbes working for you period. Add all the organic inputs you like, this fact wont change while CO2 rates are low.

So will local soil testing companies test be able to test my CO2 levels, or do I need to buy equipment?
Is it Flux CO2 that I am measuring?

 

[GreenHawk]

Found this site:

 

[oldskol4evr]

Found this site:

eco told me about a test that does both co2 and soil,thought i had it bookmarked,think it was a solice test,maybe he will chime in and hook you up with it

 

[Ecompost]

So will local soil testing companies test be able to test my CO2 levels, or do I need to buy equipment?
Is it Flux CO2 that I am measuring?

you could use a lab, someone like this
the types of tests they complete can be located here, https://solvita.com/soil/
this option will give you a far wider range of testing, but this is all at cost, that cost may outweigh you needs, and a simple test like this, would do you and it is something you can use at any time

 

[Ecompost]

Found this site:

thats serious equipment buddy, I think you can get away with a cheaper option but technically yes, measuring background CO2 and temps, tells us lots about the conditions of the system.

 

[GreenHawk]

you could use a lab, someone like this
the types of tests they complete can be located here, https://solvita.com/soil/
this option will give you a far wider range of testing, but this is all at cost, that cost may outweigh you needs, and a simple test like this, would do you and it is something you can use at any time

Awesome, thanks for the links!

thats serious equipment buddy, I think you can get away with a cheaper option but technically yes, measuring background CO2 and temps, tells us lots about the conditions of the system.

Yeah, it looked pretty serious, just didn't know what to look for.
Btw, I read Teaming with Microbes after reading a recomendation by you to another member here. Thanks for the rec.

 

[oldskol4evr]

Awesome, thanks for the links!



Yeah, it looked pretty serious, just didn't know what to look for.
Btw, I read Teaming with Microbes after reading a recomendation by you to another member here. Thanks for the rec.

great book,plus elaine ingram can also teach a lot,i like that book so well got hard back,lmao

 

[GreenHawk]

great book,plus elaine ingram can also teach a lot,i like that book so well got hard back,lmao

Yeah, I got the hard back myself, but I got the digi version of the other Teams. His writing style is top notch. I had a hard time putting the first book down. Haven't started the others yet.

 

[oldskol4evr]

Yeah, I got the hard back myself, but I got the digi version of the other Teams. His writing style is top notch. I had a hard time putting the first book down. Haven't started the others yet.

didnt have the second copy when i got mine,seen it a few months back on amazon they were selling used books both as a package deal,i get around to it,hahahah i like going back in the book for issues im having,i forget shit a lot lmao

 

[GreenHawk]

@encompost
Did you mention that after you harvest you don't replant in the same bed for 4 wks?

 

[jipp]

morning oldskewl staying out of trouble yeah.

 

[Organikz]

Lmfao...fuck me. I need to measure my co2. @GreenHawk You are getting overloaded with information you don't need to grow 2 plants in a closet...y'nah mean? Save your money. No co2 tests are needed to measure soil biology activity. Pour a slurry on it and jog along mate!

What ever happened to leave it the fuck alone, less is more, and keep it simple...? I think if I'm doing all the stuff mentioned I will go back to the bottles. Nature's law of compensation...trust the process.

 

[jipp]

well part of that problem comes from comerse.. i mean when you are flooded with a shit load of products. and bullshit sales picthes. i agree K.I.I.S

especily for my dumb ass.

 

[oldskol4evr]

morning oldskewl staying out of trouble yeah.

cant do it ,no matter how much i try lol.got 24 deer show up for breakfast,spoiled assholes,another couple weeks and the doe will be turning tables on the bucks chasing them,hahaha,dont think pigeon toe made it threw the rut this year,seen him fighting another buck by my feeder about 2 months ago,flipped the deer right on his back,chased him off,2 weeks later the losing buck showed up,couldnt hardly walk,left eye gouged out and a busted brow tine,i named him gi joe,he left the property about week ago,im asuming his broke browe tine is lodged in pigens head,about a week after that fight i had at least 50 buzzards about 300 yrds from house eating something big

 

[jipp]

thats to bad, but he had a good run. his bad ass genetiis will live on. i use to enjoy going to the feild in the morning on the way to work, there would be a heard of elk there every morning..

nature sure is good for ones soul. im not much for the city.
im to boring for such i guess. laughs.

well gi joe better fucking hold the rep of pigone toe. he has some big hoofs ( cant thgink of the spelling for there damn feet, hoof i think ) to fill.

 

[oldskol4evr]

thats to bad, but he had a good run. his bad ass genetiis will live on. i use to enjoy going to the feild in the morning on the way to work, there would be a heard of elk there every morning..

nature sure is good for ones soul. im not much for the city.
im to boring for such i guess. laughs.

well gi joe better fucking hold the rep of pigone toe. he has some big hoofs ( cant thgink of the spelling for there damn feet, hoof i think ) to fill.

im not sure if joe gonna hang around,he stood on the hill for about a hour a week ago,just stood there ,kept turning looking at me as if he was saying thanks,,right after he left another buck that showed up the morning of the ice ,he was being chased by another buck and laid down on property by back of fence in panic,when he stood up i seen why,he had busted one side of his rack off and his bottom jaw was just hanging,tongue was another 6 in past his jaw,he ran off property and i knew for sure coyotes would get him,well low and behold he showed back up couple days ago,starving to death and couldnt eat,just stood there wanting me to take mercy and kill um,,well in the community if you dont own 10 acres or more you cant hunt or shoot,,so we call police,they send out a cop and the buck had just walked into the woods as he got to or driveway,,buck stood there over a mineral block for 30 min,any way,cop told us if he comes back to shoot it with a 22,all i got are high caliper weapons,so we agreed on the 38,,told the cop,i dont want to keep him just want him killed cause it suffering,he looked all up side my head like i was crazy,i said it just like this,youngster i spent 40 yrs of my life feeding my family with this animal,i moved here and made them a santuary and now my turn to feed them,that dont include me eating my babies if you dig,he laughed at me,and as i stood there serious as hell he said i think i feel were your coming from,they are your relaxation and friends,,i said right,and shooting one of these deer is pure murder ,they have no clue what wild is,then mama pulled out the phone and showed him a video of us feeding them by hand,,so he took us serious and called game warden,right then,game warden came out and walked properties around us and i never heard the shot ,had to go get baby from school ,but next night had a pack of coyotes swarmed on something about 1/2 mile threw the woods

 

[jipp]

yo, oldskewl wtf happen with texas man.

i mean they were on the riht track:
"States have been passing laws easing up on the prohibition of marijuana since 1973, when Oregon and Texas took the first plunge to decriminalize weed. "

http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2018/01/18/sessions-doomed-war-on-pot/

 

[oldskol4evr]

yo, oldskewl wtf happen with texas man.

i mean they were on the riht track:
"States have been passing laws easing up on the prohibition of marijuana since 1973, when Oregon and Texas took the first plunge to decriminalize weed. "

http://www.rocklandtimes.com/2018/01/18/sessions-doomed-war-on-pot/

texas will be the last to legalize unless gov lift the law,between oil,cattle and agriculture,weed money dont intise them,hahah,i dont keep up with it,im roll outlaw style even if they did,if gov lift the schedule one then i would be more into it,i still think folk crazy in these legal states to throw vids of growing and just dont care about the us law,,not me i know first hand how gov can play injun giver being part injun myself,,with all the documentation of permits and all ,just a open door for mass round up to bring um all in,,ya im old school and if the bastards wont info on me all they got do is look at there own registers,ive had several jobs to include contract work for them most my life,i aint giving um shit,lmao hahaha