Can I Water While My Lights Are Off??

  • Thread starter KushMan707
  • Start date
  • Tagged users None
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

322
63
Water and nutrients definitely move through the plant night and day hyzer,not so sure about it leaving the plant back into the soil though,ive always been under the impression that it traveled up into the plant at night not down and out.

Nobody is arguing that nutrients move within the plant - I'm taking specific issue with @Bulldog11 's claim that nutrients and water move back and forth between the roots and plant itself based on light cycle. There simply isn't a shred of evidence to support this assertion as far as I can tell.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

2,709
263
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/how-plants-get-water-and-nutrients.html

"
How Plants Get Water and Nutrients
Plants absorb nutrients and water through their roots, but photosynthesis — the process by which plants create their fuel — occurs in the leaves. Therefore, plants need to get fluids and nutrients from the ground up through their stems to their parts that are above ground level.

Just as animals, plants also contain vascular tissues (xylem), which transports water and minerals up from the roots to the leaves, and phloem, which transports sugar molecules, amino acids, and hormones both up and down through the plant.

The leaves of plants also contain veins, through which nutrients and hormones travel to reach the cells throughout the leaf. Veins are easy to see some leaves (a maple tree, for instance). In some plants the veins are hard to see, but they're in there.

Sap is the mix of water and minerals that move through the xylem. Carbohydrates move through the phloem. There are several different "modes of transportation" through the xylem and phloem; their main function is to keep all cells of the plant hydrated and nourished.

Inside the cells of the root, there is a higher concentration of minerals than there is in the soil surrounding the plant. This creates root pressure, which forces water up out of the root through the xylem as more water and minerals are "pulled" into the root from the soil. This force results inguttation, which is the formation of tiny droplets on the ends of leaves or grass early in the morning.

The reason the droplets are seen in the morning is because transpiration — the loss of water from leaves — doesn't occur at night, so the pressure builds until morning. Those droplets are not just water, they're sap. And, those sap droplets are proof that water and minerals get pulled up from the soil and transported through the entire plant.

Guttation may work well for small plants, but gravity works against the upward movement through larger plants, so more active processes are involved.
"

So, how and why does a plant move water through it's body?

How: Inside the cells of the root, there is a higher concentration of minerals than there is in the soil surrounding the plant. This creates root pressure, which forces water up out of the root through the xylem as more water and minerals are "pulled" into the root from the soil. This force results inguttation, which is the formation of tiny droplets on the ends of leaves or grass early in the morning.

Why: The reason the droplets are seen in the morning is because transpiration — the loss of water from leaves — doesn't occur at night, so the pressure builds until morning. Those droplets are not just water, they're sap. And, those sap droplets are proof that water and minerals get pulled up from the soil and transported through the entire plant.

One could conclude that since a plant doesn't need to transpire at night, there is no need for the exylem to pull sap through the plant at night. Not saying it stops 100%, but it's obvious a plant doesn't need as much water at night as it does during the day.

@hyzerflip - can you add anything to the conversation other than skeptical posts? I would love to hear a counter argument for my own learning. What do you disagree with?
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

322
63
One could conclude that since a plant doesn't need to transpire at night, there is no need for the exylem to pull sap through the plant at night. Not saying it stops 100%, but it's obvious a plant doesn't need as much water at night as it does during the day.

That isn't at all what you originally said, though.

@hyzerflip - can you add anything to the conversation other than skeptical posts? I would love to hear a counter argument for my own learning. What do you disagree with?

I'm not sure why you're taking this personally - A skeptical eye is critical if we want to know the truth. We shouldn't just accept old folk wisdom without evidence to support it if our goal is actual knowledge. As I've said before, I specifically disagree with this statement you made:

Bulldog11 said:
during the dark cycle plants let the water and nutrients from inside the plant travel to the root system. When the lights turn on, they pull this back out of the soil into the plant.

You keep posting links and references that have nothing to do with that claim. Is there any evidence out there that supports this folk 'wisdom'? I don't think that's an unreasonable question to ask.
 
Hashmasta-Kut

Hashmasta-Kut

Moderator
Supporter
331
43
regardless if they need water at night or not in quantity; at night since its cooler it takes far longer to wilt, and they aren't transpiring much either, so its pretty safe to wait till morning.
 
Bulldog11

Bulldog11

2,709
263
First off, thank you. I am in no way taking anything personal. I find the best way to learn is to compare notes with others, and question things that seem untrue. So, I in fact appreciate your questions. I didn't mean anything negative to you.

It's apparently a problem I have. Over the internet I come off as an asshole no matter what I do. I add smilies or say thank you on every post yet I still come off as an ass. Sorry about that.

Ok, let me defend what I said and why I said it the way I did.

First thing, the OP seems like a newby (sorry if not) and I didn't think a scientific paper was needed for the help he was asking for.

Second. Your right. When I said, "during the dark cycle plants let the water and nutrients from inside the plant travel to the root system. When the lights turn on, they pull this back out of the soil into the plant." I wasn't totally explaining everything correctly, and that was because I didn't think it was needed for the OP.

Third. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true. Plants don't need as much water at night as they do during the day. We have talked about how plant transpire through the leafs, and that is mostly needed during the day. We have also talked about the vascular system in which nutrients flow through a plant. This system is more active during the day with both water intake and nutrient intake, aka sap.

I still don't see where I haven't backed my original statement up with facts. Is there a specific part of my explanation that lacks facts or is in need of a better explanation? Maybe we should ask our resident physiologist here at the farm to chime in?
 
hyzerflip

hyzerflip

322
63
First off, thank you. I am in no way taking anything personal. I find the best way to learn is to compare notes with others, and question things that seem untrue. So, I in fact appreciate your questions. I didn't mean anything negative to you.

Fair enough! :)

Second. Your right. When I said, "during the dark cycle plants let the water and nutrients from inside the plant travel to the root system. When the lights turn on, they pull this back out of the soil into the plant." I wasn't totally explaining everything correctly, and that was because I didn't think it was needed for the OP.

Third. Doesn't mean what I said isn't true. Plants don't need as much water at night as they do during the day. We have talked about how plant transpire through the leafs, and that is mostly needed during the day. We have also talked about the vascular system in which nutrients flow through a plant. This system is more active during the day with both water intake and nutrient intake, aka sap.

I still don't see where I haven't backed my original statement up with facts. Is there a specific part of my explanation that lacks facts or is in need of a better explanation? Maybe we should ask our resident physiologist here at the farm to chime in?

imho you're dramatically moving the goalposts. I agree that plants need different amounts of water during the night and day, but that doesn't even resemble your original comment. What I'm taking issue with specifically is your claim that water and nutrients move into the roots at night and back into the plant during the day. The entirety of that statement is totally false, at least as far as I can tell. Does anyone have any evidence that this is even remotely true?

In your defense, I come off as an asshole sometimes too - Thanks for engaging me in this discussion!
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
does it rain at night ...... ? i'm sure a plant that needs a drink would take it. everything is complex, yes a standard transpiration process may happen under normal situations, but add stress like no water and the plant drinks. but most do not understand this , stress is always lurking indoors, waiting .... once it happens it changes everything. the indoor enviro is a balancing act against stress.....

stress compounds at a much faster rate indoor. temps, humidity, root oxygen, transpiration ect ... the dance between humidity and heat does not happen without the plant feeling that balance even for a night. then it counteracts some issue, un natural and it's playing catch up and it affects everything.

and in hydro mapito, once the medium was dry a three foot plant would be laying down on its side without water in hours without a drink. seen it happen many times, indoor .....

give him a drink & he would stand up.... !!. stress, yes tons but i would give them a drink at night if it was needed.

but if indoors i would not turn on a light if your on the dark period just more stress. if your in soil the dry out time is days different then something like mapito so death from no water in soil should not happen. in a 12 dark cycle.

if it does or did, they have been dry for a lot longer then they should have been and your water times are really messed up.
 
Last edited:
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
growers like wayne or the other top growers on the net is they found the happy zone ..... it's not from a bottle. & it's a lot of work ....
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
correct ....

the stress of no water is a issue that comes before lights but you could use a dim light or green for 5 minutes. ya, it's really how perfect ya wanna be ....
 
H

happy b

Guest
I don't water during lights out,it's not necessary in my experience (unless theyr all ready really wilted wen lights went out).for whatever scientific reason ,even when REALLY dry my plants won't go through so much water at night that i would have to water them before lights on.any small amount of wilting will be corrected 20 mins after watering . and I have also noticed that when iv not been home in a day or two my veg plants who's soil has dried out a good bit(although not totally of course)have always grown more when the soils been left to dry than they do when kept fairly moist . I just think it's coz there's more oxygen available to the roots when it's dry.
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
your on point with your grow plants laugh off some stress ......

but others with stress from the start, bug damage might be another leg down. this plant laughs at the bugs ..... no yellowing ...... just keep on trucking ....... that main blade on the fucked up leaf is still all happy, straight out still transpiring loving life .... & 3/4 has been fucking wiped out.

NL 5
 
SpiderK

SpiderK

2,339
263
& happy leaves still transpiring at the very end ...... sub - freezing temps at that.....

G13 k
 
H

happy b

Guest
Oh yeah if it's a case of the lights off is the only time you can water then you gotta do what you gotta do . been there myself a few times . just make sure no light gets in when your moving in and out the grow room,stick with your green light and your golden.
that's a nice colorful plant SK
 
J

JackTrippa420

6
1
So, according to this ….bulldog 11…. it says that they actually pull more water at night time than any other time because they absorb sun during the day and store it up in order to use it at night time while they suck up water through the roots in order to do the largest part of their growing….
 
Top Bottom