Can someone break down flushing.

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Kendallj24

Kendallj24

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after doing tons of research on flushing it has only made me more confused as to no one explained this directly.
Example, I’m growing organically (fox farm soils) and I rarely add any synthetic nutes. Some people say there is no need to flush organically but my big question that I need an answer to is why is that? Like does the plant just know when to stop taking nutrients from the soil knowing it’s life is ending? Because I still have over 1600 ppm left in the soil with less than 2 weeks away from harvest. So obviously it’s still going to be eating nutrients from the soil unless I flush all that out. So what do people mean by not flushing organics?
 
Kendallj24

Kendallj24

40
8
after doing tons of research on flushing it has only made me more confused as to no one explained this directly.
Example, I’m growing organically (fox farm soils) and I rarely add any synthetic nutes. Some people say there is no need to flush organically but my big question that I need an answer to is why is that? Like does the plant just know when to stop taking nutrients from the soil knowing it’s life is ending? Because I still have over 1600 ppm left in the soil with less than 2 weeks away from harvest. So obviously it’s still going to be eating nutrients from the soil unless I flush all that out. So what do people mean by not flushing organics?
My plants fan leaves are already going lighter which makes me think that the plant knows when to stop taking in nutes? Right or wrong?week 7 starts tomorrow.
 
jguit

jguit

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I tried flushing / not flushing over the years and never really tasted or noticed that much of a difference, to be honest. So now i just split the difference and taper the amount nutrients for the last few weeks. I wouldn't overthink this aspect of growing but to each their own!
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

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I tried flushing / not flushing over the years and never really tasted or noticed that much of a difference, to be honest. So now i just split the difference and taper the amount nutrients for the last few weeks. I wouldn't overthink this aspect of growing but to each their own!
I agree, flushing isnt needed unless you are feeding way to much and have a salt buildup.
 
pop22

pop22

28
13
Flushing is a myth and a waste of time for anyone not growing commercially. For a commercial grow it make sense when you don't have to pay for 2 more weeks of feed for 100,000 plants.... but all your really doing is starving your plants right when they need it to finish. It has absolutely no affect on taste of how the weed burns, that stuff is all BS. Example: your weed pops and crackles because there's too much Mg. Yeah right, Trying lighting a 20 PPM pile of Mg..... good luck! Popping and crackling are mites etc exploding when the water in their biodies turns to steam causing them to explode. And black ash is caused by incomplete drying and or curing, there is too much sugar remaining in the bud.
And as to "flushing out those nasty chemicals" will someone please answer me this: What chemicals?? If your not adding "bloom boosters" or "Bud hardeners", both of which are pure snakeoil, then you've put noting into the soil that is any different than what is made available by microlife in an organic grow. Elemental and mineral cations and anions are exactly the same regardless of the source.

So no, no need to flush, whether organic or not. and recent studies are saying pretty much the same. Real science trumps Bro science every time!

And I have $50 that says NO ONE can tell the difference between flushed and unflushed bud, or even organic bud vs nutrient fed.
 
iX_Lazy_Xi

iX_Lazy_Xi

912
243
Interesting read, let me hit you with this.

Lack of nitrogen causes the leaves to turn yellow

Excess causes dark green leaves and the claw

You can go from 1 extreme to the other in 1 grow

The fact that you can have excess N shows you the plant can absorb more than it needs, and the fact that lack of N turns leaves yellow shows the plant consumes what is available until its no longer there.

By that logic alone this disproves the author to me personally.

The author also stated that white ash is a result of complete combustion of an organic material and the black ash is just incomplete combustion. Ask yourself why there is incomplete combustion, the simple answer is there is still inorganic material inside that has a different level of combustion than the organic host.

I can personally attest to the "chemical" taste and how harsh it hits the lungs from before I ventured down this path as compared to now it was literally the smoothest thing I've ever smoked by letting the plant deplete the excess inorganic material stored inside.

To answer the OP question I dont believe you need to flush organic grows for the simple fact that they are just that organic no foreign chemical is involved.


At the end of the day all science is and all it will ever be is best guess. My .02 sorry if you disagree
 
jguit

jguit

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The fact that you can have excess N shows you the plant can absorb more than it needs, and the fact that lack of N turns leaves yellow shows the plant consumes what is available until its no longer there.

By that logic alone this disproves the author to me personally.
I'm not sure I agree. How would you explain the yellowing of the larger fan leaves in flower? Feeding extra N has no effect on this, at least in my experience. Of course, the timing is strain/pheno dependent.
 
iX_Lazy_Xi

iX_Lazy_Xi

912
243
I'm not sure I agree. How would you explain the yellowing of the larger fan leaves in flower? Feeding extra N has no effect on this, at least in my experience. Of course, the timing is strain/pheno dependent.
I would explain it the same way that when you correct a deficiency you don't see the result in the old effected growth but in the new growth. What is done is done
 
pop22

pop22

28
13
When you flush, why do the buds remain nice and green? Because the plant has a biological imperative to reproduce at any cost. The plant transports any nutrients is can to the buds. So unless you flush until the plant is stone dead, you've accomplished nothing. And funny, I don't see anyone flushing outdoor plants. And sugar with even a small amount of moister in it will not burn completely. It has nothing to do with inorganic material.
I sincerely wish we could meet up and test your claim about buds. I've made a fair amount of money with this bet. in ten years NO ONE has been able to tell the difference. Ohh maybe if it was bud from some really overfed plants, but from any plant grown in properly not a chance IMO.

And here's the question I've asked many, please tell me what "foreign chemical" might be in your nutrients? Seriously, I'd like to know. As I said, unless your using additives, of which most contain PGR hormones, I have no idea what those supposed "Nasty" or "foreign" chemicals are. The only non nutrient I've been able to find in nutrients is usually EDTA, which is also used a s a food preservative, and is widely used in the food industry. In nutrients, it is the catalyst that chelates certain micro nutrients like Iron, etc into it's ionic form, and the end results is exactly the same chemically as that created by bacteria.

Interesting read, let me hit you with this.

Lack of nitrogen causes the leaves to turn yellow

Excess causes dark green leaves and the claw

You can go from 1 extreme to the other in 1 grow

The fact that you can have excess N shows you the plant can absorb more than it needs, and the fact that lack of N turns leaves yellow shows the plant consumes what is available until its no longer there.

By that logic alone this disproves the author to me personally.

The author also stated that white ash is a result of complete combustion of an organic material and the black ash is just incomplete combustion. Ask yourself why there is incomplete combustion, the simple answer is there is still inorganic material inside that has a different level of combustion than the organic host.

I can personally attest to the "chemical" taste and how harsh it hits the lungs from before I ventured down this path as compared to now it was literally the smoothest thing I've ever smoked by letting the plant deplete the excess inorganic material stored inside.

To answer the OP question I dont believe you need to flush organic grows for the simple fact that they are just that organic no foreign chemical is involved.


At the end of the day all science is and all it will ever be is best guess. My .02 sorry if you disagree
 
iX_Lazy_Xi

iX_Lazy_Xi

912
243
When you flush, why do the buds remain nice and green? Because the plant has a biological imperative to reproduce at any cost. The plant transports any nutrients is can to the buds. So unless you flush until the plant is stone dead, you've accomplished nothing. And funny, I don't see anyone flushing outdoor plants. And sugar with even a small amount of moister in it will not burn completely. It has nothing to do with inorganic material.
I sincerely wish we could meet up and test your claim about buds. I've made a fair amount of money with this bet. in ten years NO ONE has been able to tell the difference. Ohh maybe if it was bud from some really overfed plants, but from any plant grown in properly not a chance IMO.

And here's the question I've asked many, please tell me what "foreign chemical" might be in your nutrients? Seriously, I'd like to know. As I said, unless your using additives, of which most contain PGR hormones, I have no idea what those supposed "Nasty" or "foreign" chemicals are. The only non nutrient I've been able to find in nutrients is usually EDTA, which is also used a s a food preservative, and is widely used in the food industry. In nutrients, it is the catalyst that chelates certain micro nutrients like Iron, etc into it's ionic form, and the end results is exactly the same chemically as that created by bacteria.
It was probably just that super overfed from someone trying to turn a profit hence the horrible taste and feeling. The fact that it is a chemical version of the nutrient is where I'm coming from. Chemicals aren't good for you I dont care how you skin that cat. Like I said thats my opinion you don't have to agree we can still debate and be friends 😎
 
iX_Lazy_Xi

iX_Lazy_Xi

912
243
As to the outdoor thing look at the difference in the media as a total. 5 gal pot indoor vs. The earth outdoor. Its a much bigger pot and easier for nutrients to dissipate also take into account rainstorms they do the flush for you
 
iX_Lazy_Xi

iX_Lazy_Xi

912
243
Think I missed response to your ash question I would let bud sit out until it was crispy and could break up in my fingers and still would be black so I don't think moisture content was a factor in that case. I like my jars around 55 rh and they burn completely white everytime
 
LexLuthor

LexLuthor

2,972
263
Interesting read, let me hit you with this.

Lack of nitrogen causes the leaves to turn yellow

Excess causes dark green leaves and the claw

You can go from 1 extreme to the other in 1 grow

The fact that you can have excess N shows you the plant can absorb more than it needs, and the fact that lack of N turns leaves yellow shows the plant consumes what is available until its no longer there.

By that logic alone this disproves the author to me personally.

The author also stated that white ash is a result of complete combustion of an organic material and the black ash is just incomplete combustion. Ask yourself why there is incomplete combustion, the simple answer is there is still inorganic material inside that has a different level of combustion than the organic host.

I can personally attest to the "chemical" taste and how harsh it hits the lungs from before I ventured down this path as compared to now it was literally the smoothest thing I've ever smoked by letting the plant deplete the excess inorganic material stored inside.

To answer the OP question I dont believe you need to flush organic grows for the simple fact that they are just that organic no foreign chemical is involved.


At the end of the day all science is and all it will ever be is best guess. My .02 sorry if you disagree


Samples of the buds in flushed vs non flushed showed the exact same nutrient content in multiple studies. Deficiencies are alot more complicated than just having too much of it or not enough in the root zone. The majority of deficiencies have to do with pH and environmental factors (over watering, underwatering, etc.) affecting the ability for the plant to uptake a nutrient, not so much there being an actual lack of it in the root zone.
 
iX_Lazy_Xi

iX_Lazy_Xi

912
243
Samples of the buds in flushed vs non flushed showed the exact same nutrient content in multiple studies. Deficiencies are alot more complicated than just having too much of it or not enough in the root zone. The majority of deficiencies have to do with pH and environmental factors (over watering, underwatering, etc.) affecting the ability for the plant to uptake a nutrient, not so much there being an actual lack of it in the root zone.
🤷‍♂️ I'll stick to my "bro science" opposed to the paper found in the university basement my lungs appreciate it
 
Habosabin

Habosabin

1,198
263
I don't know if it works or not. Experiments just show chemically flushed and non flushed are virtually identical.

I fail to see the logic of how starving a plant can give it more thc. I can possibly see a lighter flavor profile from some excess nutrient being used up. I don't know how a plant uses up nutrients other than to add more matter and support life functions.
 
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lvstealth

lvstealth

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the plant knows. it stops eating. have you read the sticky post under harvest on the forum here? this is one of the ways to tell when it is close to harvest:

4: Water/fertilizer consumption. If it's still taking in a lot of water, it's still transpiring actively, which would suggest it's still growing actively. If it's still 'eating' as it was during the earlier phases of flower, then again, she likely still has some time. If it seems to have stopped drinking and eating, as some put it, then it's likely done.

when it knows it is done, it stops taking up nutrients (not totally, and not like an on off switch) and it starts using all the leaves have stored and they turn colors and fall off.

as for your theory about them being able to take too much or too little, yes, but not like you think.

if in soil, they are not "driven", they are monitored. its actually a hormone thing (and some other chemical reaction; things like ph, but not only ph) without getting too deep that it hurts my head, if environment is ok and if left to their own devices they wont over or under eat. it is sort of light driven (actually energy, but that is mostly light in this case)

funnily enough, i doubted it all, but have played with certain parameters (heat, humidity, light and wind) and can drive the plants to consume more/less. lots of good data, but mostly i have found out how to find each plants "sweet spot" and work with that.
 
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Ponky

Ponky

3,941
263
I flush in soil or peat moss media because it's a waste of fertilizer to keep feeding them those extra 2 weeks. And curing is where the burn quality comes from.
 
Rootbound

Rootbound

Supporter
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Flushing is a myth and a waste of time for anyone not growing commercially. For a commercial grow it make sense when you don't have to pay for 2 more weeks of feed for 100,000 plants.... but all your really doing is starving your plants right when they need it to finish. It has absolutely no affect on taste of how the weed burns, that stuff is all BS. Example: your weed pops and crackles because there's too much Mg. Yeah right, Trying lighting a 20 PPM pile of Mg..... good luck! Popping and crackling are mites etc exploding when the water in their biodies turns to steam causing them to explode. And black ash is caused by incomplete drying and or curing, there is too much sugar remaining in the bud.
And as to "flushing out those nasty chemicals" will someone please answer me this: What chemicals?? If your not adding "bloom boosters" or "Bud hardeners", both of which are pure snakeoil, then you've put noting into the soil that is any different than what is made available by microlife in an organic grow. Elemental and mineral cations and anions are exactly the same regardless of the source.

So no, no need to flush, whether organic or not. and recent studies are saying pretty much the same. Real science trumps Bro science every time!

And I have $50 that says NO ONE can tell the difference between flushed and unflushed bud, or even organic bud vs nutrient fed.
Damn, spitting out some hard facts! I fully agree with what all you said 👍🏻 I will add that most commecial grows overfeed for a better yield but have to flush to try to improve quality also.
 

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