canna coco deficiencies?

[TurboAllWD]

So it seems half my plants are doing pretty bad this round. I've had nearly perfect plants grow from this mix. The big healthy plant in the pics is my friends LVPK thats at 3.0+ec now and doing just fine here. He never lets his pots run off and has high EC, also the healthiest plants ive ever seen.


They are coming out a little high on the ph 6.0.-6.2 until they get their nutes and it goes back down to 5.9-6.0 and 500-550ppm's/1-1.1 EC

3ml/g Calmg
5 A+B
8 rhizo
5 cannazyme

Just started using humboldt and flavorful for its humic acid at 5ml/g total

After reading SC's post on cannazyme I'm going to bring it back up to 10ml/g like i was using before.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

How old are your light bulbs?

When I feed with cal-mag I like to do it alone, with only water. Otherwise there tends to be a certain amount of effectiveness lost. Probably chemically bonding with the A&B, or whatever you use...

 

[motherlode]

hey never used canna before so I dont know how strong it is but 5 ml a/b seems light to me - prolly they just need some more base nutes

when you say "They are coming out a little high on the ph 6.0.-6.2 until they get their nutes and it goes back down to 5.9-6.0 and 500-550ppm's/1-1.1 EC"

are you refering to the ph of the runoff? with coco you do not get an acurate ph reading from runoff - fyi

 

[googolplexs]

I thought the Canna already has calcium in it, how does that work, I just bought some Canna the ingredients say it has calcium.
Aqua Vega A has calcium, I have seen others also using cal-mag in flower?

 

[TrichromeFan]

In veg, I run 5 ml ca mg + 7ml a&b. 10 ml in flower. Try that on a few, and see how that goes.

-TF

 

[fuzzy]

It has enough for some strains but others you might have to add a little calmag. peace,fuzzy

 

[Seamaiden]

I don't know Canna products, haven't used them, but those girls look like they have an issue with phosphorous, something's not playing well. Reddened petioles are what I'm seeing, along with that awfully low relative humidity (is it really 25%?) which is causing the leaves to turn downward and inward. Transpiration is the issue with that.

If you can play with pH a bit, let it get down to 5.8, then let it range back up to 6.2, you might see a difference. Also, you could try giving a foliar of Epsom salt (MgSO4) at a rate of 1/4tsp per gallon. If they perk up a bit and change appearance, then you have your answer right there. Things got a lot easier for me when I finally separated calcium and magnesium, because it made it a lot easier to see the direct effects of each thing. Plus MgSO4 provides a bit more sulfur.

 

[TurboAllWD]

Thanks everyone for all the comments and help.

How old are your light bulbs?

The 1000w mh bulb was REALLY old. lol I just replaced it a few days ago but the new one has a burnt spot and the light intensity seems weaker than the old bulb. Trying to exchange it this week.

hey never used canna before so I dont know how strong it is but 5 ml a/b seems light to me - prolly they just need some more base nutes

when you say "They are coming out a little high on the ph 6.0.-6.2 until they get their nutes and it goes back down to 5.9-6.0 and 500-550ppm's/1-1.1 EC"

are you refering to the ph of the runoff? with coco you do not get an acurate ph reading from runoff - fyi

Yeah, I know that. Although I have done some side by side tests checking the ph the correct way in coco with distilled/mixing the coco and it comes out close to the run off ph. I think your right about the plants just needing more base nutes. I just gave a few 6.5a&b yesterday and it seems like their doing better.

In veg, I run 5 ml ca mg + 7ml a&b. 10 ml in flower. Try that on a few, and see how that goes.

-TF

Thanks I'm gonna try that, lots of people are telling me my nute mix is too low, i know it too, only brought it down to that because I had some nute burn right after the transplant most likely from having the light too far away.

I don't know Canna products, haven't used them, but those girls look like they have an issue with phosphorous, something's not playing well. Reddened petioles are what I'm seeing, along with that awfully low relative humidity (is it really 25%?) which is causing the leaves to turn downward and inward. Transpiration is the issue with that.

If you can play with pH a bit, let it get down to 5.8, then let it range back up to 6.2, you might see a difference. Also, you could try giving a foliar of Epsom salt (MgSO4) at a rate of 1/4tsp per gallon. If they perk up a bit and change appearance, then you have your answer right there. Things got a lot easier for me when I finally separated calcium and magnesium, because it made it a lot easier to see the direct effects of each thing. Plus MgSO4 provides a bit more sulfur.

I might give epsom salt a try if they don't bounce back with more nutes, their showing some ca/mg deficiency but i'm going to try my calmag first. Humidity is 45-50%, temp does get a little hot sometimes up to 81, waiting on a capacitor for the central air so it will stay 78.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

The bulb was probably not delivering nearly the lumens necessary. That's what it looks like to me as the main culprit.

All the advice above has been good too, so with those little tweaks accumulating you should see quite an improvement.

 

[organicfreak]

I struggled with coco for almost a yr. and now have it cracked imho...

1st coco is salty and dirty and needs to be washed /unless you buy the premade canna coco..
The store bought canna coco is expensive though, but they wash it and buffer it with a coco buffer that basically has calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and iron... (FYI SAME INGREDIENTS THAT ARE IN CALMAG+)

I make my own with a lrg bale for 10$ each fills a 20 gal smart pot canna cost about 60 to do the same...
1.By washing it you remove salt debri sand etc...
2.by buffering it you have coco thats not calcium defficent and stealing all your calcium untill its satisfied... This is why many growers boast of better result with used coco
2nd 3rd time around....
3.AND MOST IMPORTANTLY PH BUFFER... Many dont relize this, cause they dont have the proper tools ,but the runoff is not the accurate way to determin ph... Hanna has a 400 $ ph meter that goes directly in the soil and you can jab it in there several times/ares and get multiple readings.... HOWEVER THIS ISNT NEEEDED IF YOU ph buffer your coco prior to using it...(basically soaking your coco in water that you adjusted to 5.6-5.8) let sit for hr. minimum 24hrs. I prefere and then its like rockwool as long as you feed with 5.6-5.8 water it will always stay there.....

With that all said I also use canna coco a+b (homemade version)..
Been running with no problems for 6+months ,so other day checked out bitches and they were looking bad...
Starting going thru diagnostic mode and checked ph...
Wouldnt you know it it had creeped up to 6.2-6.5 range...
If you don't know coco doesn't like anything over 6.2 imho...6.5 and above they will not eat cause there in LOCKOUT...

So I flushed and flushed untill runoff was ppm of what I was using to flush in my case it was hose water 145ppm I flushed downt to 180ppms
But here's weird thing I check ph and it spiked 6.7-6.9...
Now Ive battled this be4 and would just keep flushing with 5.2 water until it broke and came down,but this time I just added food and I believe this balanced out the ph and its holding @ 5.8

I think what threw off the ph in 1st place is i tried 2ml/gal of m.o.a.b instaed of the 1ml/gal recomended by the nice people here on the farm...
This I believe caused lockout causing ph flux. Which explains the flush/feed to re calibrate my ph SINCE I HAD PH BUFFERED IN BEGING

o

 

[organicfreak]

Also ppm is way to low imho... lol they are not new rooted clones... try 700 - 1000 ppms after you get that ph to 5.8....

 

[TurboAllWD]

Dr. Detroit- Good call, I'm taking care of that tomorrow for sure, i can tell this new/burnt bulb isnt cutting it. Is the hortilux blue any better than the regular mh?

Also ppm is way to low imho... lol they are not new rooted clones... try 700 - 1000 ppms after you get that ph to 5.8....

Just gave some 1.4EC or 700ppms

5ml calmag
7 a&b
5 rhizo
10 cannazyme

Their eating a lot, run off ppms are 500 1.0EC so i water some more to get the run off to 1.4

I'll check the ph the correct way with distilled water/mixing coco if things dont clear up. I think your right though, any ph inbalance is most likely from not having the nutes dialed in. I kinda got stuck on giving them low nutes cause i got some burn initially. Must be these new nugs im smokin on causing all the newb mistakes. :)

 

[organicfreak]

Sweet that's anther tip I see your already applying...
Taking the ppm's from runoff is totally excitable... Just not the ph.. Either buy hanna's 400$ meter or you can dig down a few inches in your coco take a pinch and put it in a cup add 1 part coco to 3parts water (I believe.. search it).. Then put your ph meter in that...

My way is to keep feeds @ (24 hr day x 7 days a week = 168hrs a week/ 3 feeds = 56 hrs.) so every 56 hrs I feed..
Where I fucked up is wanted that bigger boost and over did moab. WHICH MADE ME HAVE TO FLUSH,and when I did the meter said 3.2 ec...
When I was feeding @ 2.2-2.3.

See the 1.1 difference between the feed and the runoff? Means they weren't eating but being poisoned,but in your case they were feed 700 and runoff was 500 they ate 200,so watch them and see if they eat more or if they go yellow again...
If they go yellow YOU KNOW ITS NOT FROM 2 MUCH FOOD CAUSE the ppm's are dropping in the runoff. So next would be to check ph. If that's good then you know you can feed more..
To find that happy zone of feed, and when you go to add boost follow what you know works and boost just what is need(lol though i was going to get bigger buds instead cost me extra 2 wk flower...) AND YOU WILL NEVER NEED TO FLUSH...
1st flush I did in 6months+ to any of them..(except for 1 wk prior to harvest )
o

 

[organicfreak]

Also great read on coco


lol I bought his book to cause there's free recipe's is it,and only cost me 24$

o

 

[TurboAllWD]

Thanks for all the info man. By the way they are looking great! The ones with N def turned green pretty much overnight from bumping the nutes up. I don't know why I quit reading the plants by run off, but I normally look at run off EC exactly like you do and adjust it to what they need and then the run off is the same as whats going in, not higher or lower by more than .1 ec. Their back on track now, will take pics tomorrow!

 

[organicfreak]

good 2 hear friend hate when things arn't green lol unless its harvest time...

Anywho check this out
click on lake enzymes NOT THE LAKE CONCENTRATE....

These are real enzymes and they work...
I to use to buy cannazymes @ 140 gal, but usage is 10ml/gal AND IMHO DON'T WORK...
now my roots are white,but my smartpot's get green and white algea on it when using cannazymes.. However now using carefree enzymes lake version I HAVE WHITE ROOTS AND THE SIDE OF THE SMART POTS ARE BLK(THE COLOR I BOUGHT THEM @)..

But the hands down deal breaker is: lake usage is .5ml/gal SO you can put
10ml of carefree lake enzymes in 160gallons of water and cannazyme would take you 160ml to treat 160gallons of water...

lol its only 140ish for a gallon of lake and will last you 20x longer then cannazyme for the same cost???????? and imho doesnt even work...

o

 

[BCrocker]

Nice info here. I am thinking about trying the Canna coco on some 15gal pots

 

[organicfreak]

I use 20 galon's and fill them with 15gallons of 85% coco 15% perlite...
Works great... I do this ,so theres room for watering. If you fill to high watering is a BITCH... Also the wider the pots the wider the roots dripline gets and THEREFORE WIDER YOUR LADY'S WILL BECOME...

I get better results when I start in 1gal then move to 3 then to 7 then to the 20's a week be4 flowering begins...
This last time I went from 3 to 20's and have monsters however the roots didnt pop thru crazily like they did when I worked them up smaller...

See smart pots prune as the roots pop thru... So as root goes thru the smart pot the tip is pruned and growth of the root is slowed,but the plant tells another 1 to start growing. so another is sent then pruned and is repeated...

In a standard pot the roots swirl so you have real long roots,but there a smaller amount of them, but the smart pots i shit you not will have white roots everywere lol the side of your pots after about a week looks like "your kids playdoo doll that u squuez playdoo through and out the top its hair grows and they can cut it" well this happens in the smart pot,BUT ALOT MORE... The sides & bottoms are full... then they die off CAUSE THEY WERE PRUNED... (the part of the root outside the pot)

NOW WHEN YOU GO TO TRANSPLANT OMG... You have A SOLID ROOT BALL THAT CANNOT BE BROKEN.. EXCEPT if you transplant when there completly dried out they will crumble,but if you keep a little moist they will come out complet.. a little coco dust and perlite might fall out but serioulsy high 90% stays with....

 

[organicfreak]

also smart pots are the most expensive...
roots sells some cheaper and now any1 who sell hydrofarm. They have a new smartpot knock off and ther like HALF THE PRICE!!!! AND smaller 1's have handles..

I've used the smartpots and the hydro farm 1's go with the hydrofarm 1's and save your $... Lol imho hydrofarm USUALLY has the cheaper products compared to ngw,but in this case there practically the exact same product..

 

[motherlode]

just making sure - you up pot from 1 -3 - 7 gal smart pots before they go in the 20 gal tubs?