canna feed schedule

[bentley]

im using canna nutes in canna coco in #5 smartpots just curious of how everybody feeds i followed the nute chart on the canna site and all the plants look healthy but the ppm's seem alil weak to me.

silica blast 5ml
cal-mag 5ml
h&g roots excel 1ml
cannazyme 10ml
canna boost 10ml
canna coco a&b 10ml
pk 13/14 5ml used weeks 3 & 6

this is used during flowering ph is from 5.8-6.3
the ppm's is around 900-1000

anybody has some advice on some good additives or bloom booster???

 

[Seamaiden]

How do the plants look? Are they growing well? I find that to be of greater importance because I'm growing plants, not charts.

I like MOAB and Big Bud, the powdered form of Big Bud, but have also seen good results from both liquid and powdered Koolbloom. I will use any of these beginning at 10 days from flip, and stop any of them at around 2 weeks prior to planned harvest. I do NOT mix them, I pick one and stick with it. I found I liked MOAB and Big Bud as they gave me the best results overall.

 

[Snow Crash]

I totally agree. 900 to 1000ppm, aka 1.8 to 2.0ec, is the level I run my plants at during week 6 and into week 7 of flowering. This pushes most average strains almost to the point of burning in coco. Some strains can handle more food at 2.2 to 2.5ec, but just as many cannot handle anything over 1.5 to 1.6ec (like Nirvana Blue Mystic). The level you stated is pretty dialed in I think.

Maybe it's just me, or my phenotypes, or my RootsOrganics... But Canna Coco A+B with Cal-Mag plus tends to push too much nitrogen, especially late in flowering. It also doesn't seem to push enough PK, especially early in flowering. These are nutritional ratio changes that need to happen with the flip to 12/12. The Cannazym helps, but IMO, you need a ton of the stuff just to make it through flowering with the proper ratios when running the A+B with an additional 2-0-0 supplement.

I also use Big Bud Powder as a potassium dominant bloom enhancer. I love the stuff. Big buds as advertised. I'll start right from the switch with the stuff, maybe 40ppm the first week, 60ppm the next, and then for the 3rd week I bump it to more like 150ppm to 220ppm and run that in weeks 3, 4, and 5. Then in week 6 I change up everything.

Botanicare Hydroplex has been working very well for me as a Cannazym replacement. I'm "whatever" about enzymes and the 0-10-6 Hydroplex I can use at 20% the volume of Cannazym for about the same ratio increase. This saves me money on what I consider to be an overpriced bottle of "whatever." In week 6 I'll use this as a PK 13/14 replacement once cutting out the big bud.

CannaBoost works best when applied in a foliar spray. Especially once trichomes start to set in. This will reduce the volume you use significantly while increasing its effectiveness significantly. I found it to provide a noticeable increase in trichomes and resins. If you'd like to use it in the reservoir then I suggest using it once every 5 days, beginning on about Day 25 of 12/12, at absolutely full strength (15ml/gallon).

The way I'd do it is to feed at full strength and collect 30-40% runoff. Then feed at 1/2 strength and collect runoff 30 to 40% runoff. Then I'd use a solution of 1ml A, 1ml B, 2ml Cannazym, and 15ml Boost and only collect 10% as runoff. The following day I'd run full strength nutrients with 10% runoff, then follow that up with a 1/2 strength with the regular 30% to 40% runoff.

It goes: Boost10%, Full10%, Half30%, Full30%, Half30%, Boost10%...

Silica Blast is derived from Sodium Silicate. Rather than adding more sodium to your system I suggest you look into a Potassium Silicate like Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt or Advanced Nutrients Rhino Skin (I think there are others, Dutch Master makes one too I believe). The extra potassium does a lot more good than the extra sodium will.

During flowering, or really any time after you've been feeding the coco for more than 5 weeks, you can cut back on the use of Cal-Mag plus. Your largest benefit from that supplement is an increase in iron availability, which is much less important during flowering. The Cal-Mag plus at 3% calcium has less per volume than the Coco A which has 4.5% calcium. If you wanted more Calcium you could just run more A+B, only 2ml extra to offset every 3ml of Cal-Mag Plus.

Finally, I'd like to say that after day 40 I prefer to switch Macro nutrients to Botanicare CNS 17 Ripe 1-5-4. I don't run PK 13/14 during week 6, instead I just increase my Hydroplex volumes in combination with the Ripe for the PK boost. I find this system, with it's low nitrogen level, is great for the end of flowering in coco.

 

[bentley]

thanks
plants look healthy just curious because buds look alittle small in week 5
and i know afew people that use sunshine mix and they say to max out the ppm's too 2000+

 

[bentley]

im using #5 smartpots hand watering everyday
maybe because the smartpots are drying out too fast and leaving the roots alittle dry
its slowing down bud development???

 

[PhatBlunt]

I totally agree. 900 to 1000ppm, aka 1.8 to 2.0ec, is the level I run my plants at during week 6 and into week 7 of flowering. This pushes most average strains almost to the point of burning in coco. Some strains can handle more food at 2.2 to 2.5ec, but just as many cannot handle anything over 1.5 to 1.6ec (like Nirvana Blue Mystic). The level you stated is pretty dialed in I think.

Maybe it's just me, or my phenotypes, or my RootsOrganics... But Canna Coco A+B with Cal-Mag plus tends to push too much nitrogen, especially late in flowering. It also doesn't seem to push enough PK, especially early in flowering. These are nutritional ratio changes that need to happen with the flip to 12/12. The Cannazym helps, but IMO, you need a ton of the stuff just to make it through flowering with the proper ratios when running the A+B with an additional 2-0-0 supplement.

I also use Big Bud Powder as a potassium dominant bloom enhancer. I love the stuff. Big buds as advertised. I'll start right from the switch with the stuff, maybe 40ppm the first week, 60ppm the next, and then for the 3rd week I bump it to more like 150ppm to 220ppm and run that in weeks 3, 4, and 5. Then in week 6 I change up everything.

Botanicare Hydroplex has been working very well for me as a Cannazym replacement. I'm "whatever" about enzymes and the 0-10-6 Hydroplex I can use at 20% the volume of Cannazym for about the same ratio increase. This saves me money on what I consider to be an overpriced bottle of "whatever." In week 6 I'll use this as a PK 13/14 replacement once cutting out the big bud.

CannaBoost works best when applied in a foliar spray. Especially once trichomes start to set in. This will reduce the volume you use significantly while increasing its effectiveness significantly. I found it to provide a noticeable increase in trichomes and resins. If you'd like to use it in the reservoir then I suggest using it once every 5 days, beginning on about Day 25 of 12/12, at absolutely full strength (15ml/gallon).

The way I'd do it is to feed at full strength and collect 30-40% runoff. Then feed at 1/2 strength and collect runoff 30 to 40% runoff. Then I'd use a solution of 1ml A, 1ml B, 2ml Cannazym, and 15ml Boost and only collect 10% as runoff. The following day I'd run full strength nutrients with 10% runoff, then follow that up with a 1/2 strength with the regular 30% to 40% runoff.

It goes: Boost10%, Full10%, Half30%, Full30%, Half30%, Boost10%...

Silica Blast is derived from Sodium Silicate. Rather than adding more sodium to your system I suggest you look into a Potassium Silicate like Dyna-Gro Pro-Tekt or Advanced Nutrients Rhino Skin (I think there are others, Dutch Master makes one too I believe). The extra potassium does a lot more good than the extra sodium will.

During flowering, or really any time after you've been feeding the coco for more than 5 weeks, you can cut back on the use of Cal-Mag plus. Your largest benefit from that supplement is an increase in iron availability, which is much less important during flowering. The Cal-Mag plus at 3% calcium has less per volume than the Coco A which has 4.5% calcium. If you wanted more Calcium you could just run more A+B, only 2ml extra to offset every 3ml of Cal-Mag Plus.

Finally, I'd like to say that after day 40 I prefer to switch Macro nutrients to Botanicare CNS 17 Ripe 1-5-4. I don't run PK 13/14 during week 6, instead I just increase my Hydroplex volumes in combination with the Ripe for the PK boost. I find this system, with it's low nitrogen level, is great for the end of flowering in coco.

Brother! I totally subscribe to your posts!
Just a quick question, when you are talking about ppm's and ec, are you talking in the .5 scale or the .7(hanna) scale. I would really like to start dailing in some genetics I plan on keeping and just want to sync up with the information the community is offering.

 

[Snow Crash]

Brother! I totally subscribe to your posts!
Just a quick question, when you are talking about ppm's and ec, are you talking in the .5 scale or the .7(hanna) scale. I would really like to start dailing in some genetics I plan on keeping and just want to sync up with the information the community is offering.

I'm talking in the .5 scale (which is hanna).

EC is a better comparative method but it still isn't perfect. Every element will read a little different, and with all the different ratios out there there can be some reasonable deviance in EC with the same performance. What works for one person won't necessarily work for another.

The important things to do is to understand your ratios, and how your supplements effect the final outcome. Then it's just a matter of keeping a good log and watching the plants. Having a reasonable knowledge base of nutrient deficiency and salinity will go a long way to speeding up the dialing in process.

With Canna I also find the buds to be a bit smaller than on other systems. I think the key to getting bigger buds with Canna is hitting them with more phosphorus right at the 12/12 flip. I aim for a pretty balanced 1-1-1 ratio for the first 2 weeks. Many people don't add much phosphorus and use extra Cal-Mag winding up with a very nitrogen dominant ratio. For whatever reason, this seems to slow early bud development and the plants don't hit flowering with much gusto. They'll kinda catch up over the final 4 or 5 weeks but won't hit the levels you're going to see when supplementing the system and dialing the ratios in a little better.

 

[PhatBlunt]

I'm talking in the .5 scale (which is hanna).

EC is a better comparative method but it still isn't perfect. Every element will read a little different, and with all the different ratios out there there can be some reasonable deviance in EC with the same performance. What works for one person won't necessarily work for another.

The important things to do is to understand your ratios, and how your supplements effect the final outcome. Then it's just a matter of keeping a good log and watching the plants. Having a reasonable knowledge base of nutrient deficiency and salinity will go a long way to speeding up the dialing in process.

With Canna I also find the buds to be a bit smaller than on other systems. I think the key to getting bigger buds with Canna is hitting them with more phosphorus right at the 12/12 flip. I aim for a pretty balanced 1-1-1 ratio for the first 2 weeks. Many people don't add much phosphorus and use extra Cal-Mag winding up with a very nitrogen dominant ratio. For whatever reason, this seems to slow early bud development and the plants don't hit flowering with much gusto. They'll kinda catch up over the final 4 or 5 weeks but won't hit the levels you're going to see when supplementing the system and dialing the ratios in a little better.

I was under the assumption that Hanna puts out .7 scaled meters and Nutridip puts out .5 scaled meters, at least that's what i was told when i purchased my Hanna meter and got it calibrated at the .7 scale.

I have to agree fully with your analysis and understanding of the Canna line. I fell into that same trap, neglecting my NPK and just throwing stuff in the res like cal-mag. This led to a nitrogen leaning feed going into flower which resulted in some of the slowest bud-set I have ever experienced, I then remembered I hadn't been using Cannazyme, further decreasing the PK I was delivering to the plants, in a move to "substitute" the Cannazyme by using a PK booster a bit earlier in flower in the form of Hydroplex @ 1/5 str to achieve the same NPK , as I later found out you also do the same.

This run, I have learned from my mistakes and will make it a goal of mine to keep better notes and a develop a better understanding of what I am doing to my plants. Last run I didnt not even use the PPM portion of my Hanna combo meter, needless to say, It has become the focal point to my new subscription to a higher learning experience this time around.

 

[smokey79]

with ab the n ratio high in flower i tghik they basicly rpen during flush so flush longer, add extra pk and flush ph to start then last week non ph water find work good with canna also 12/12 pushph up to reduce n
hope it helps my 2p worth

 

[Snow Crash]

I was under the assumption that Hanna puts out .7 scaled meters and Nutridip puts out .5 scaled meters, at least that's what i was told when i purchased my Hanna meter and got it calibrated at the .7 scale.

I have to agree fully with your analysis and understanding of the Canna line. I fell into that same trap, neglecting my NPK and just throwing stuff in the res like cal-mag. This led to a nitrogen leaning feed going into flower which resulted in some of the slowest bud-set I have ever experienced, I then remembered I hadn't been using Cannazyme, further decreasing the PK I was delivering to the plants, in a move to "substitute" the Cannazyme by using a PK booster a bit earlier in flower in the form of Hydroplex @ 1/5 str to achieve the same NPK , as I later found out you also do the same.

This run, I have learned from my mistakes and will make it a goal of mine to keep better notes and a develop a better understanding of what I am doing to my plants. Last run I didnt not even use the PPM portion of my Hanna combo meter, needless to say, It has become the focal point to my new subscription to a higher learning experience this time around.

Nah, Hanna is on a .5 calibration. I use mine all the time but all I watch is the EC. Technically, on my GroChek meter it is in uS/cm (EC x 1000) which gives a better accuracy of the final reading.

When I'm running Canna A+B with Cal-Mag Plus, Liquid Karma, Big Bud, and Hydroplex, I start 12/12 at ~1200-1300uS/cm. I'll increase the EC every week by 100uS/cm, but I do it by increasing only the Hydroplex (up to a point) which results in the ratio adjustments I need.

As an example, I'd be running something like 4ml A, 4ml B, 8ml Liquid Karma, 3ml Cal-Mag plus, and 1ml Hydroplex per gallon in the first week of flowering. This balances out somewhere south of 1300uS/cm (with a good amount of that coming from the LK). The final ratio winds up being a little short on potassium for me on most strains. That's why I started adding in the Big Bud powder to the mixture at just 50uS/cm (or 25ppm) to balance out the ratio.

At this mix the final ppm levels are:
71-78-75 Ca 71 Mg 26

Sometimes I notice this is a little short on Magnesium, so another 40uS/cm of Epsom salt on occasion is usually a good idea. Every week from that point I just add a little more Big Bud, and a little more Hydroplex to pick the EC level up a little bit. This keeps the Nitrogen PPM constant, so there is a good supply of both N and Ca, and it manages to change the ratios to alter which elements are in abundance and can be taken in more readily when needed.

If I were using just Canna then what I'd be doing is running something like 6ml of A and B and 10ml of Cannazym. Even then... still a little short on Potassium for my liking... With the Canna system there is no way to dial that potassium level in if your plants want more K and less N and P. That has been the biggest problem for me when dialing the Canna system.

Keeping the EC relatively low for those first few weeks of flowering ensure you avoid any kind of burning or imbalance that you'd be combating in weeks 3 and 4 of flowering. Rather than having a plant that needs to recover with less leaf mass you ensure the plant comes into the flowering stage just a little hungry. That's when I'll pick up to 1600-1700uS/cm and really start to push them to figure out how much they can take. As soon as I see anything that resembles over feeding I start doing 1/2 strength feedings between the full strength ones. I'll watch the runoff and try to get an arbitrary idea of the CEC of the media so I can keep it in the "Green." As the plant hits weeks 5 and 6 of flowering I can bring the EC levels up a bit more, but I find the plants need a lot less nitrogen.

That's when I switch off of Canna A+B altogether and begin using Botanicare CNS 17 Ripe as my macro system. Otherwise I'd be running like 2ml of A+B, and an assload of supplements to get the ratios right. The CNS 17 Ripe allows me to use mostly my macro system with much lower volumes of the more expensive flowering supplements.

That's my take on it all. I can talk about nutes all day long though.

 

[max_well]

good info here!
SnowCrash.. you have some very helpful input about nutrients.. gave me some good insight about possible explanations on some deficiencies I've experienced using the Canna coco line on current grow of a variety of strains, which was posted in the infirmary section.
I'm wondering about the inclusion of P,K from Cannazyme (0-2-1) at the recommended rate of ~10 ml/ gal, and using a substitute. You mention Hydroplex, which is 0-10-6. What about Mad Farmer M.O.A.B , which is 1-52-32, at ~1/25th strength, ie. ~1/2 ml per gallon? or Koolbloom powder by G.H., which is 2-45-28? seems like these would be even more cost effective replacements if you're not feeling a need for enzyme function.
In the same vein, how about replacing the more expensive PK 13/14 (which is actually 0-10-11 in mass percentages), with liquid Koolbloom, which is 0-10-10, and about half the price, in order to maintain the recommended salt balance for the Canna schedule into flower.
Thanks again for your thoughts on all this

 

[Snow Crash]

good info here!
SnowCrash.. you have some very helpful input about nutrients.. gave me some good insight about possible explanations on some deficiencies I've experienced using the Canna coco line on current grow of a variety of strains, which was posted in the infirmary section.
I'm wondering about the inclusion of P,K from Cannazyme (0-2-1) at the recommended rate of ~10 ml/ gal, and using a substitute. You mention Hydroplex, which is 0-10-6. What about Mad Farmer M.O.A.B , which is 1-52-32, at ~1/25th strength, ie. ~1/2 ml per gallon? or Koolbloom powder by G.H., which is 2-45-28? seems like these would be even more cost effective replacements if you're not feeling a need for enzyme function.
In the same vein, how about replacing the more expensive PK 13/14 (which is actually 0-10-11 in mass percentages), with liquid Koolbloom, which is 0-10-10, and about half the price, in order to maintain the recommended salt balance for the Canna schedule into flower.
Thanks again for your thoughts on all this

I agree that the dry KoolBloom and this MOAB product (which is apparently only used by people on/from this site) both have about the ratio you're looking for to supplement the extra Phosphorus you'll need. I'll never say "Use product X and nothing else." Everyone needs to find something that works for them, I actually appreciate the liquid because I really need so very little of the stuff. 1ml per gallon is only maybe 60ml per week for me. At about $0.0022 per ml... I never trip out much over a few pennies.

Maybe if I was a commercial grower burning through thousands of gallons, every 1/10th of a cent would add up over time. As a home grower though, I just try to use things that I've researched and know are good quality. I only speak of them because I have experience with them.

I do have Liquid KoolBloom, thinking exactly the same thing you did about replacing the PK 13/14. I purchased the PK 13/14 maybe 2 years ago and have used a grand total of probably 60ml out of the 1000ml I have. At this point the stuff is probably trash worthy. I liked the effect of Liquid KoolBloom on a previous grow and I plan to incorporate a little bit this time around.

 

[TrichromeFan]

I'm talking in the .5 scale (which is hanna).

EC is a better comparative method but it still isn't perfect. Every element will read a little different, and with all the different ratios out there there can be some reasonable deviance in EC with the same performance. What works for one person won't necessarily work for another.

I was under the assumption that Hanna puts out .7 scaled meters and Nutridip puts out .5 scaled meters, at least that's what i was told when i purchased my Hanna meter and got it calibrated at the .7 scale.

Nah, Hanna is on a .5 calibration. I use mine all the time but all I watch is the EC. Technically, on my GroChek meter it is in uS/cm (EC x 1000) which gives a better accuracy of the final reading..

My Hanna is at a .7 scale. As you can see, my Truncheon is calling 1.4 EC. That is 700 on a .5 scale.

For the longest time I was convinced that mine was .5 scale. Big mistake for me. I go by EC now. It's much better. I gotta say guys, I love the shit out of my truncheon. I highly recommend it to anyone who needs a EC meter. It has all scales marked right on the body!

-TF:rauch08:

 

[Snow Crash]

That's odd, because my Hanna Hi 991404 GroChek Combo meter is most definitely on a .5 conversion. 1000uS/cm is always 500ppm on mine...

True story though, EC is what you want to use anyway. No reason to mess with ridiculous conversions.

 

[PhatBlunt]

That's odd, because my Hanna Hi 991404 GroChek Combo meter is most definitely on a .5 conversion. 1000uS/cm is always 500ppm on mine...

True story though, EC is what you want to use anyway. No reason to mess with ridiculous conversions.

interesting, my combo meter's ppm are 700 and my uS/cm is at 1000, I guess that means im at the .70 ratio too?. Im confused. Now you know why I only used the Ph part of my Hanna combo meter


I just want to sync up with what Snow's #'s are, how would I achieve this

thanks
Phat~