Captain's Log: Dispatches from Planet Milson

[MHippie]

Im in the same place as you. I dont know which newer breeders to try. I chose HSC and will soon be growing a bunch of 4 of their strains. Still going to stagger a different seed Every week or two.

If i needed seeds i would still try mr. nice and motarebel to smoke the original strains that made all the ch9 i liked.

i can only grow so many. I like them pretty mature with the 12 plant count i am on now.

Hey man check out Mosca. Sshz mentioned them and I checked them out on DC Seed Exchange. They've got A TON of classic crosses. I believe I've see Sharon White Widow, C99, Pre98 Bubba Kush, Indiana Bubblegum, etc.

 

[MHippie]

Some I can think of are boggle gum and sour boggle, blueberry etc....og kush must be by now, right?

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm

Damn I'm high. Durban Poison? That had some skunk crossed in early? Or no?

I'm lit too... and a seed whore lol!

The first 2 are BOG. Blueberry is well covered by HSC with their Blueberry Muffin. No idea who is doing OG Kush. But I'd love to see BOG drop some sour bubble and sour bubble again for sure.

 

[Milson]

I'm lit too... and a seed whore lol!

The first 2 are BOG. Blueberry is well covered by HSC with their Blueberry Muffin. No idea who is doing OG Kush. But I'd love to see BOG drop some sour bubble and sour bubble again for sure.

Yeah I'm just thinking what the best "IBL" lines are i.e. they have gone past like F5.....

 

[MIMedGrower]

I think that's my point. Very few are really doing the massive numbers game. It's mostly finding a "good" male, hitting and hoping with nice females while hoping for hybrid vigor, maybe doing a back cross or two to "stabilize..."


Maybe going to F3 for some good breeders. But I'm skeptical how much they are maxing out their F2s. And i think it's finding that great, close to max F2 male that would really make the genius breeder (where "maxed out" is getting the "ideal" gene combo for....a few or more traits. Since they are all possible at F2).

Maybe. Just saying i think for very good reasons it's quite rare.

Maybe i dont really understand what ibl is.

And the ch9 seeds are bred all female but still only have a few phenotypes per strain.

what you described is typical new market chucking. When they all borrow the same “elite” male and just cross their whole catalog for seed selling money. I think when a breeder finds and develops their breeding plants good offspring come from way earlier crossing than f8. Or whatever.

 

[Milson]

Maybe i dont really understand what ibl is.

And the ch9 seeds are bred all female but still only have a few phenotypes per strain.

what you described is typical new market chucking. When they all borrow the same “elite” male and just cross their whole catalog for seed selling money. I think when a breeder finds and develops their breeding plants good offspring come from way earlier crossing than f8. Or whatever.

Yeah they totally do. That's why most strains don't go that deep. You are incentivized not to by the allure of hybrid vigor.

I'm just thinking about the ones that have. Not that they are "better" than lines that stop at F1 or F3.

 

[MHippie]

Yeah they totally do. That's why most strains don't go that deep. You are incentivized not to by the allure of hybrid vigor.

I'm just thinking about the ones that have. Not that they are "better" than lines that stop at F1 or F3.

I saw an F10 somewhere yesterday and was like holybfuxk really... no way. Wonder if you end up with a rock solid profile that deep in?

 

[Grownsince95]

Yeah they totally do. That's why most strains don't go that deep. You are incentivized not to by the allure of hybrid vigor.

I'm just thinking about the ones that have. Not that they are "better" than lines that stop at F1 or F3.

I've heard the trick is to have a parallel line so you can cross back in some genetics very similar to the IBL and increase vigor

 

[Grownsince95]

It will diversify the gene pool without diluting the traits

 

[Milson]

It will diversify the gene pool without diluting the traits

Yeah! That is a huge project!

 

[Milson]

I saw an F10 somewhere yesterday and was like holybfuxk really... no way. Wonder if you end up with a rock solid profile that deep in?

It should breed true for whatever it is because heterosis should have mostly sorted itself out by then between selection and probability.

Like whatever buried recessive genes there are, they are either double recessive throughout the population or out of hiding behind dominant genes (gone). If that makes sense for people who don't know what heterosis is (or if it turns out I don't know what it is).

 

[Grownsince95]

IBLs with poor selection go south eventually. The famous land races we all love that were true IBLs were tended by humans with careful experienced eyes who culled males based on experiences and planted the seeds from the best females next year, they don't just drop in the dirt.

But there were some places that were either lazy or suffered from poore knowledge and did not select well so places like Jamaica growers were importing genetics from Amsterdam in the nineties Because some of those hillsides have become so inbred they were losing their vigour and they couldn't compete

 

[Milson]

IBLs with poor selection go south eventually. The land races that were true IBLs were tended by humans with careful experienced eyes who culled males based on experiences and planted the seeds from the best females next year, they don't just drop in the dirt.

But there were some places that were either lazy or suffered from poore knowledge and did not select well so places like Jamaica growers were importing genetics from Amsterdam in the nineties Because some of those hillsides have become so inbred they were losing their vigour

I believe this is confusing heirloom and landrace but I could be wrong.

At least in my understanding, heirloom is tended by farmers in a region who are doing some effective selection. Landrace is pure nature. But yes, it is not IBL. It's open pollinated.

 

[Grownsince95]

People don't just walk up into the mountains and find weed from "pure nature". Maybe thousands of years ago but ever since then it's pretty much been farmed by people for a market.

 

[Milson]

I believe this is confusing heirloom and landrace but I could be wrong.

At least in my understanding, heirloom is tended by farmers in a region who are doing some effective selection. Landrace is pure nature. But yes, it is not IBL. It's open pollinated.

 

[tomatoesarecooltoo]

I believe this is confusing heirloom and landrace but I could be wrong.

At least in my understanding, heirloom is tended by farmers in a region who are doing some effective selection. Landrace is pure nature.

My understanding is that landraces are still cultivated and selected. This is the description that I found most helpful.

Landraces & Heirlooms - Open Pollinated Seeds

Landraces Landraces can be said to be the oldest types of crop cultivars. They had been domesticated by traditional farmers around the world who often initially selected from wild populations. Then the crops adapted over time to suit the local environment of soil type, fertility and water...

open-pollinated-seeds.org.uk

 

[Grownsince95]

The true essence of a land race IBL is...

You grow up on a hillside in Colombia or wherever that your family has been farming for a hundred years. The cannabis growing on that hill was planted by your great great grandpa who taught his sons how to select the best plants for next year...fast forward to your F100 line your dad is teaching you how to grow. If done right, these are the true holy grails of the ganja world.

 

[Milson]

People don't just walk up into the mountains and find weed from "pure nature". Maybe thousands of years ago but ever since then it's pretty much been farmed by people for a market.

On planet Milson this is not true.

My understanding is that landraces are still cultivated and selected. This is the description that I found most helpful.

Landraces & Heirlooms - Open Pollinated Seeds

Landraces Landraces can be said to be the oldest types of crop cultivars. They had been domesticated by traditional farmers around the world who often initially selected from wild populations. Then the crops adapted over time to suit the local environment of soil type, fertility and water...

open-pollinated-seeds.org.uk

They are selected for survival in that one place and that's about it is the difference, i suppose. They are basically bound to the land based on survival, so the rest of the genetics stay quite varied.

Nonetheless, it is biologically very different from inbreeding lines.

 

[Grownsince95]

And I left this out for simplicity but don't forget this is happening with multiple males and multiple females per generation not just one mother and father. That's where the whole idea of parallel lines comes in

 

[Grownsince95]

On planet Milson this is not true.

They are selected for survival in that one place and that's about it is the difference, i suppose. They are basically bound to the land based on survival, so the rest of the genetics stay quite varied.

Nonetheless, it is biologically very different from inbreeding lines.

Nope and nope.

 

[Milson]

The true essence of a land race IBL is...

You grow up on a hillside in Colombia or wherever that your family has been farming for a hundred years. The cannabis growing on that hill was planted by your great great grandpa who taught his sons how to select the best plants for next year...fast forward to your F100 line your dad is teaching you how to grow. If done right, these are the true holy grails of the ganja world.

IBL and open pollination do not mix in my definition.