Captain's Log: Dispatches from Planet Milson

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Milson

Milson

Milsonian
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I'm flipping back and forth between psychedelics being just a drug experience and something "spiritual." My intellect says former, my intuition / emotion says the latter.

Answering your media question might tip the scales for me. I'll give Claude a listen and see what he has to offer.
Wait sorry what is "spiritual" here?

I'm onto Turing and Shannon hanging out at bell labs. This book is tremendously interesting.
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

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Guess I was thinking along the lines of Poulan and the ongoing debate among the heavy hitters about what really happens under the influence of LSD or psilocybin. Some say random firings similar to dreaming - just a drug experience with nothing deep going on, others say consciousness is not in the meat between our ears and the drugs allow us to tap into a much broader universal consciousness. It's described by many as a spiritual experience to tap into the interconnectedness of everything.

I don't know which is more accurate, or if there is another explanation entirely. Spirituality is a word that is (perhaps poorly) used because words often fail to properly convey the feeling of the experience.

Turing as in Alan? I need to catch up I guess. But that is pretty much the theme any time I try to hang with you.
 
Smithers

Smithers

Guess I was thinking along the lines of Poulan and the ongoing debate among the heavy hitters about what really happens under the influence of LSD or psilocybin. Some say random firings similar to dreaming - just a drug experience with nothing deep going on, others say consciousness is not in the meat between our ears and the drugs allow us to tap into a much broader universal consciousness. It's described by many as a spiritual experience to tap into the interconnectedness of everything.

I don't know which is more accurate, or if there is another explanation entirely. Spirituality is a word that is (perhaps poorly) used because words often fail to properly convey the feeling of the experience.

Turing as in Alan? I need to catch up I guess. But that is pretty much the theme any time I try to hang with you.
Something from Pollan’s book that I remembered (hopefully correctly, because it’s been a bit) is that it may suppress the ability for your brain to define edge barriers between objects and concepts. So you can feel at one with stuff you touch or think about. I think he was saying children don’t fully develop that skill until at least many years old... which is in part why toddlers are so bonkers - they are tripping all the time. We cannot get out of the box of categorizing everything as discrete as adults, and we lose visibly of the fuzzy connections without drugs.

Am I remembering the right book?

The Information - is spectacular right now I have to say. That’s what the Shannon stuff is from. Cheers
 
Moe.Red

Moe.Red

Supporter
Something from Pollan’s book that I remembered (hopefully correctly, because it’s been a bit) is that it may suppress the ability for your brain to define edge barriers between objects and concepts. So you can feel at one with stuff you touch or think about. I think he was saying children don’t fully develop that skill until at least many years old... which is in part why toddlers are so bonkers - they are tripping all the time. We cannot get out of the box of categorizing everything as discrete as adults, and we lose visibly of the fuzzy connections without drugs.

Am I remembering the right book?

The Information - is spectacular right now I have to say. That’s what the Shannon stuff is from. Cheers
Yeah, toddlers do not yet have a developed default mode network. It's something we develop to make short cut decisions based on past experience using less brainpower and energy. Toddlers don't yet have experience. For adults, we need it as a filter to actually get stuff done.

You got it right.

There is an ultimately unprovable hypothesis given current technology that psychedelics push pause on the DMN and return your mind to a childlike state.
 
Milson

Milson

Milsonian
Supporter
Guess I was thinking along the lines of Poulan and the ongoing debate among the heavy hitters about what really happens under the influence of LSD or psilocybin. Some say random firings similar to dreaming - just a drug experience with nothing deep going on, others say consciousness is not in the meat between our ears and the drugs allow us to tap into a much broader universal consciousness. It's described by many as a spiritual experience to tap into the interconnectedness of everything.

I don't know which is more accurate, or if there is another explanation entirely. Spirituality is a word that is (perhaps poorly) used because words often fail to properly convey the feeling of the experience.

Turing as in Alan? I need to catch up I guess. But that is pretty much the theme any time I try to hang with you.
Ah okay, that makes sense. Yeah I guess the trivialization of dreams is kind of weird there....as is not seeing what the difference would be with a drug experience (both are using perception for source material and the difference is time since the perception and the state of the "interpreter" I guess).

And yes, Shannon is one of the fathers of information theory I guess one might say. Really interesting guy that I'd somehow not learned about before.
 
Kanzeon

Kanzeon

Yeah, toddlers do not yet have a developed default mode network. It's something we develop to make short cut decisions based on past experience using less brainpower and energy. Toddlers don't yet have experience. For adults, we need it as a filter to actually get stuff done.

You got it right.

There is an ultimately unprovable hypothesis given current technology that psychedelics push pause on the DMN and return your mind to a childlike state.

I think the part about the DMN being part of setting patterns is a huge find. We are what we continually do, right? So essentially in my mind the DMN is responsible for the subconscious, or the ego, or the Zen concept of self and other. The patterns that we set in our minds are the ones that will play out in our lives, right?

Things like PTSD hang out in that realm (things like hypervigilance, oversensitivity to perceived threats, etc), as well as depression (comparing self to other). It's what sets patterns, so after a near ego-death experience I think there's a window for a person to develop new patterns- with newfound insight on their brain's past tendencies. There have been all kinds of stories of people quitting cigarettes or drinking after doing shrooms or acid, so the potential for it to treat addiction is there, Hypothetically someone with depression or addiction or autism or an eating disorder could, say, go to a retreat for a month where new, personalized, healthier patterns for them are developed.

That's the future of mental health treatment, imo.
 
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