Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

[Snowblind]

Snowblind, can you remind me what concentrations of jacks pro hydro, cal nit and epsom salt you use? Also, do you use the same amount from start to finish or slowly increase it during flowering? I know you've mentioned this already somewhere previously but I couldn't find it.

I was thinking about starting out with 3g JPH, 2g cal nit and 2g epsom salts (per gallon) and sticking with this concentration from start to flush. Please advise. Thanks!

I often use in flower 3.0 grams of Jacks Hydroponic 1.8 grams of Calcium Nitrate and only 1/2 to 1 gram of epsom per gallon. You wont need 2 grams with this formula. Some strains wont even need 1 gram of epsoms per gallon.

In veg I was using 3.0 Jacks and 2.44 Calcium Nitrate and 1/2 gram per gallon....I use this as a base and dilute to whatever ppm I need.....so 50% str would be 1.5 jacks 1.22 Calcium Nitrate and 1/4 gram of epsoms per gallon of water. This is around a 470-490 ppm i think at .5 conversion on my meter. If this is too high a ppm dilute a little. If the plants are a little hungry for Mg add a touch more of epsoms.

 

[Capulator]

Can you mix up the jacks first at a higher strenght, adn then add to teh res measurign ppms to get your ratios. For extreme example, can I dissolve 9 grams in a water bottle of hydro and 6 grams of cal nitrate in another bottle, and then just add the hydro to a fresh res at say .7EC and thgen the CaNO3 at .2, like skywalker said he was doing earlier in this thread? Does that fuck up the ratios somehow?

 

[Snowblind]

I think that makes sense.

 

[datDANK]

just brew your own compost tea... you will get high quality plants and its super cheap, easy and fun.. and you don't have to buy all these stupid lable products

 

[Capulator]

just brew your own compost tea... you will get high quality plants and its super cheap, easy and fun.. and you don't have to buy all these stupid lable products

your first post.... Why would I want to run compost tea in an RDWC? That sounds like a recipe for a funky, funky res... Unless you have a sick bio filter.

Ill stick with this easy 3 part, thanks.

 

[skywalkerOG]

Can you mix up the jacks first at a higher strenght, adn then add to teh res measurign ppms to get your ratios. For extreme example, can I dissolve 9 grams in a water bottle of hydro and 6 grams of cal nitrate in another bottle, and then just add the hydro to a fresh res at say .7EC and thgen the CaNO3 at .2, like skywalker said he was doing earlier in this thread? Does that fuck up the ratios somehow?

That's almost exactly how I'm doing it now. I fill the hydro until I get to .7 EC, add the epsom, then add the cal-nitrate until I get .3. So I usually feed with a 1.1 EC.

I've been using this for house plants, outdoor plants, anything that looks thirsty I just give them a little jacks. House went from sparse life to plants sprouting flowers, looking pretty, overall this jacks is just amazing.

Would like to figure out a way to feed without the need of a blue lab. Is it possible to mix up a gallon, then tell your friends to use it at say 10ML a gallon?

 

[H3AD_CAS3]

If you are dead set on hitting 3-1-4 ratios I wouldn't play the EC guessing game...Snow's veg ratio of Hydro to CalNit mixes to around 1000-1060 ppm and the bloom runs less hot right around 900-960ppm. Adding Epsom adds about 60 ppm per 1/2 gram. A perfect full strength starting point and an almost perfect 3-1-4 ratio with every micro nutrient falling right around where it needs to be.

To be honest Snow has already done all hard work and provided us with a great starting point formula that can easily be tweaked with the help of Hydro Buddy. I wouldn't rely on EC since it doesn't apply equally to everyone. My EC, for example, would probably be different than Skywalker's especially if our meters have different conversion factors.

 

[motherlode]

just brew your own compost tea... you will get high quality plants and its super cheap, easy and fun.. and you don't have to buy all these stupid lable products

maybe you missed the point of the thread here - tea brewing and hydro isnt exactly a match made in heaven

 

[Snowblind]

If you are dead set on hitting 3-1-4 ratios I wouldn't play the EC guessing game...Snow's veg ratio of Hydro to CalNit mixes to around 1000-1060 ppm and the bloom runs less hot right around 900-960ppm. Adding Epsom adds about 60 ppm per 1/2 gram. A perfect full strength starting point and an almost perfect 3-1-4 ratio with every micro nutrient falling right around where it needs to be.

To be honest Snow has already done all hard work and provided us with a great starting point formula that can easily be tweaked with the help of Hydro Buddy. I wouldn't rely on EC since it doesn't apply equally to everyone. My EC, for example, would probably be different than Skywalker's especially if our meters have different conversion factors.

HeadCase if im not mistaken EC should be the same for everyone its ppm that are different depending on the meters conversion factor. The conversion factor for meters is either .5 or .7 as we all know and the EC is multiplied by the conversion number based on your meters brand to arrive at the ppm. Speaking in terms of EC is always a more accurate way of speaking about whats being fed to your plants although not everyone does it. I dont feel EC in my mind I feel ppms at a .5 conversion, which really isnt the best way for me to look at things.

If I am mistaken please tell me as I need to think about things differently.

At a .5 conversion the flower mix is under 900 ppm for me. Very cool! A 50% str veg mix of what I have been running (1.5 grams of jacks-1.22 calnitrate-1/2 gram epsoms or even less) is around 500ppm, this might or might not be hot for some people, I dunno. You can always dilute to lower the EC or ppm as needed.

 

[H3AD_CAS3]

Nevermind...I think I confused myself, anyways thanks Snow for the clarification. Here is a handy PPM conversion chart for anyone interested.

HeadCase if im not mistaken EC should be the same for everyone its ppm that are different depending on the meters conversion factor. The conversion factor for meters is either .5 or .7 as we all know and the EC is multiplied by the conversion number based on your meters brand to arrive at the ppm. Speaking in terms of EC is always a more accurate way of speaking about whats being fed to your plants although not everyone does it. I dont feel EC in my mind I feel ppms at a .5 conversion, which really isnt the best way for me to look at things.

If I am mistaken please tell me as I need to think about things differently.

At a .5 conversion the flower mix is under 900 ppm for me. Very cool! A 50% str veg mix of what I have been running (1.5 grams of jacks-1.22 calnitrate-1/2 gram epsoms or even less) is around 500ppm, this might or might not be hot for some people, I dunno. You can always dilute to lower the EC or ppm as needed.

 

[Capulator]

http://www.cannastats.com/articles/calorama.htm

Calculator at the bottom will convert for you.

SB, the next res change I run I will mix the 3.0/1.8/1 and then I will add them to the res. I will then check ppms/EC to see of they are close to skywalkers #'s. If they are, then you can see how many ppms/EC, the solution raises the RO water as you add, and you can them detrmine how many mL/gal to use from a pre mixed concentrate (to give to friends). I have a Ecotester, that uses a .7 conversion.

 

[datDANK]

your first post.... Why would I want to run compost tea in an RDWC? That sounds like a recipe for a funky, funky res... Unless you have a sick bio filter.

Ill stick with this easy 3 part, thanks.

switch over to smart pots and coco....much easier and higher quality... i did

EARTH UC STYLE

 

[Capulator]

switch over to smart pots and coco....much easier and higher quality... i did

EARTH UC STYLE

You sure have some great advice. I can't wait to see your journals. Welcome to the farm.

 

[organicness]

Out of curiosity, is there a calculator out there to help you figure out the weight you need of something like Jack's when you're combining? For example, say I wanted to add some blossom booster and wanted to know the proper amount to put in the mix with the hydro/calnite combo. I could say "I'll just add 2 grams and drop the cal/nite by 1.5 grams" but I have no idea how to figure out what NPK numbers I would then be arriving at.

I'd love to be able to have a spreadsheet with the fertilizers to be used and a "Grams" cell at the end of them, and then master N, P and K cells to put it what I'm going after for a final ratio and have it calculate the number of grams of each fert to put into the mix. Is that crazytown USA hard?

Thanks!

 

[Capulator]

Out of curiosity, is there a calculator out there to help you figure out the weight you need of something like Jack's when you're combining? For example, say I wanted to add some blossom booster and wanted to know the proper amount to put in the mix with the hydro/calnite combo. I could say "I'll just add 2 grams and drop the cal/nite by 1.5 grams" but I have no idea how to figure out what NPK numbers I would then be arriving at.

I'd love to be able to have a spreadsheet with the fertilizers to be used and a "Grams" cell at the end of them, and then master N, P and K cells to put it what I'm going after for a final ratio and have it calculate the number of grams of each fert to put into the mix. Is that crazytown USA hard?

Thanks!

http://www.cannastats.com/articles/profiles.htm

scroll tot he bottom. Find the "download" link. This will give you the excel spreadsheet where you can figure all that out, and its free.

 

[organicness]

yowzers! That's some spreadsheet. I'll take a stroll through it, thanks!

 

[ogplatinum]

Nevermind...I think I confused myself, anyways thanks Snow for the clarification. Here is a handy PPM conversion chart for anyone interested.

Saved my life with that chart bro. Props....Now i can use my PPM meter that was kindly given to me to borrow and actually measure things correctly!

 

[organicness]

Capulator, with that spreadsheet I don't know that I'm able to do what I'm looking for. At least reading through the read me I can't figure it out. I basically just want to figure out how much of each fertilizer bag to add to bring me to the ratios I'm aiming for. So I'd enter the 12-4-16 or whatever I might be looking for, and then it could tell me how much hydro to use and how much cal/nite to use. I figure it's gotta be possible somehow, but my simpleton mind can't quite figure out that math.

 

[Capulator]

You need to plug in the gauranteed analysis number of actual elements in the bag. You need to read the thread in the gardens cure. Look back through this thread. Snowblind links it somewhere around page 8 or so.. That thread is magical. It takes a littel time to understand it, but thats how you get to understand ratios.

What fertilizer are you using? If its jacks, then that info is in this thread. 3 g's hydro, 1 g epsom, and 1.8 g's cal nitrate.

 

[Snowblind]

Capulator, with that spreadsheet I don't know that I'm able to do what I'm looking for. At least reading through the read me I can't figure it out. I basically just want to figure out how much of each fertilizer bag to add to bring me to the ratios I'm aiming for. So I'd enter the 12-4-16 or whatever I might be looking for, and then it could tell me how much hydro to use and how much cal/nite to use. I figure it's gotta be possible somehow, but my simpleton mind can't quite figure out that math.

Ok as I now see it......

1 gram of Jacks Hydroponic in 1 gallon of water = aprox

N=13 ppm
P=14 ppm
K=57 ppm
Mg=17 ppm
S=22 ppm
Ca=0 ppm

1 gram of Calcium Nitrate in 1 gallon of water = aprox
N=41 ppm
Ca=50 ppm

A full dose of Calcium Nitrate is considered 2.44 grams so 2.44 x 41 for the n and 2.44 x 50 for the ca=

N=100ppm
Ca=122ppm

80% or 2.0 grams of Calcium Nitrate per gallon of water =
N=80ppm
Ca=98ppm


A full dose of Jacks is 3.7 Grams per gallon of water and 2.44 grams per gallon of Calcium Nitrate. I always thought is was around 4 but its not for the Jacks its only 3.7 grams/gal.

3.7 grams of Jacks a full dose in a gallon of water = aprox

N=50
P=52
K=215
Mg=63
S=80
Ca=0

This is a little high on the P so we run a percent of this 100% str. I have been running 3.0 grams of Jacks or roughly 80% str.....and 1.8-2.0 or so of Calcium Nitrate....is is about 80% str of 2.44...

We will use 3.0 of Jacks in this example aprox 80% str....

N=40
P=42
K=172
Mg=50
S=64
Ca=0

Add in the N and the Ca from the Calcium Nitrate and we have a total 80% str of

N=120
P=42
K=172
Mg=50
S=64
Ca=98

Epsom Salt is Magnesium Sulfate and its per gram in a gallon of water..
Mg=26ppm
S=34ppm

adding 1/2 gram of epsom will add 13ppm of Mg and 17ppm of S

Final profile aporx...

N=120
P=42
K=172
Mg=63
S=81
Ca=98

If you get leaf curl lower the p by reducing the concentration of the Jacks a little to say 70% or 75% str...weigh out the powder precisely in possible. I know some dudes who like the ppm of P to be at 39 or a little lower lower...


The Jacks Blossom Booster is really made to be used with the one part hydro herb Formula. The one part has low P so the idea is you need to stimulate the plant with a P boost in flower.

Jacks Blossom Booster is 10-30-20 on the label...
N=26ppm
P=35ppm
K=44ppm
Mg=5ppm
I you cut the Jacks 3.0 mix in half for a boost that would be 21 ppm of P from the Jacks and we know a gram of booster is 35ppm of P so thats 56ppm of P! What this means I dont know....formulas used to have a lot more P. Like Lucas formula. I dont endorse the Lucas target profiles for the needs of cannabis. I do agree with Lucas for understanding the ppm of what you are feeding your plants.P also contributes a great deal to making weed taste like shit and burn black. If you can get nice bud swell with lower P the weed can be fed until the end of flower with minimal flush if any!!!!!I will say it again. With the right feed you can feed your plants until the very end of flower without ever starving them....

At a certain ppm of P you get a downward leaf curl!!! I think this might occur a little over 40 ppm for some strains....the claw.....tell me if im wrong plz.





One very cool thing about Jacks Hydroponic is that the Nitrogen is made from Nitrate Nitrogen.



"Nitrate Nitrogen is assimilated at a much slower rate than Ammonic Nitrogen. Nitrate Nitrogen holds back on just vegetative growth and allows the flowers and fruit production to occur. In some plants you will need to eliminate the use of Ammonic Nitrogen entirely so as to get the flowers to develop for pollination and ultimate fruit production." Jim McCaskill

"When Nitrogen is supplied in the form of Ammonium (Ammonic Nitrogen)it is absorbed immediately and assimilated to be used in the production and synthesis of ammino acids and other oganic compounds. If you supply nitrogen in the form of Ammonium in the first stages of the plants life after transplant in abundance it will cause excessive vegetative growth ie lots of leaf and stems. Combine this with low light conditions and long spindly plants will most certainly result". Jim McCaskill.....Plant Nutrient Facts For Hydroponics.

In soil, micro organism convert ammonium into No3 which is nitrate Nitroge through a complex process...NH4 is converted into NO3!

"In hydro which is sterile, or it should be there are no micro organism to convert the ammonnium nitrogen. With out the conversion you are at risk of elongation with reduced possibility of otimum flowering and ultimate fruit development. With extended leggiginess a succlence develops which allows the plants to be easily broken as you are pruning or handling them in any way". Jim McCaskill.

You make mix and match the Jacks, Calcium Nitrate and the Magnesium Sulfate as needed with pretty good leethway...

Plants grown with Jacks are sturdy and the leaves are strong. Ive tried to pinch leaves off with a gentle tug only to be astonished at how hard it was to actually remove the leaf. You all will see what I mean who are using this stuff....

Its so cheap. Why would you not give it a try. Crop King has the same basic hydroformula too.

I hope this all helps. Let me know if there are any more questions and no
I dont work for Peters Labs although they should hire me. I could be their west coast dude!

All Jacks Hydroponic is potassium phosphate, potassium nitrate, magnesium sulfate, boric acid, iron EDTA, manganese EDTA, zinc EDTA, copper EDTA, and ammonium molybdate......read the labels of all your nutes you will see a commen list of basic salts!!!! A lot of potassium phosphate is used!

and check this out the Booster is Ammonium nitrate, potassium phosphate,magnesium sulfate, boric acid, iron EDTA, manganese EDTA, zinc EDTA, copper EDTA and ammonium molybdate.....hahaha

CAL-MAG the product from Botanicare is just WATER, calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate and iron EDTA......what are you paying for here? Lots of water...