Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Capulator · Jan 11, 2012

raincheck said:
I see. Excuse my imagination, it was fun to imagine how it might go off your pictures and description. I assume you aren't running all those bennies and the stuff that goes along with them (humics, sugar, etc.) correct? are you setup on a 4x8 table? How large is the rez? What is your target plant size with your system the way it is setup or the size with the most efficiency (I am thinking sog)? I am thinking the biggest limiting factor in your setup is the amount of space for the roots is this correct? Are you worried about anything building up in your PVC pipes over time? I remember I think it was ttystik did something with PVC pipes too but they ended up being a PITA to clean to he abandoned his project.

"this water is 24/7 running down one end of the pipe"
Are you referring to the 1 in. plastic inlets typically found on EF tables? Are the drains the same 1 in. drains typically found on EF tables (i.e. botanicare ) Are you running the water across the 4 ft. cross section of the 4x8 or across the 8 ft. section?

"so the water rises until it hits the second overflow. "
Is the second overflow stacked/mounted on top of the first overflow?

What is your plan on piping in fresh air? How will you keep the co2 from combining into your fresh air?

How many gallons of water do you have circulating during a run?

Seems like a cool all around system. How do you like it against your lava rocks compared at the same time period? Would you mind explaining how your lava rock setup was ran? Its always interesting to hear about new setups, helps stir the creative imagination.

Thanks for taking some time to read the questions and props to you for some great ingenuity and great effort.

I have used all kinds of shit in there. I have run many nute lines. I like the jacks the best because it leaves everything clean, and my plants have more density, and a better smell and flavor.

The roots have plenty of space. I have grown plants that yielded 6oz in a 4" tube about 14" long. When the roots hit the "T" then they have more space to spread out along the bottom and fill the pipe.

Target size is strain dependent. The purple kush I put in at about 14".

I use a bulkhead fitting for the overflow, and ebb/flow fittings for the feed.

Res is 110 gallon.

I am currently running tea and jacks together in the system with no problems at all. My roots have never been whiter and happier.

This is not on a 4 x 8 table. I use saw horses, and a custom "trough" to hold the pipes and keep them sturdy.

Cleaning between runs takes me 4 hours at the most. I fill it with bleach water and run a sponge around in there. change the tubing... thats it.

Capulator · Jan 11, 2012

tokinupon1 said:
Hey cap plants look great man. Have you been using your new mix in flower yet? I'm three weeks in flower with a full jacks grow and plants are happy as hell. Cannot thank everyone in this thread enough.

Yes. works great. Very siilar to just jacks alone, just a couple small tweaks with the CaCl2, MKP, and K2SO4.

HydroRocks · Jan 12, 2012

I have not read the 57 pages of this thread as my time is a bit limited. I apologize as I am sure you have answered this question already, but has anyone tested your products in a Under Current system yet?

I would be interested in testing these nutrients as well as the root inoculates.

We have done product testing professionally since 2005 and have a lab on-site. The only testing we do not do locally ourselves is some of the advanced analysis test which we send off for testing.

We do our own tissue sampling as well as culture test for bacteria/fungi.

Always looking for new products!

Cheers!

pugliese63 · Jan 12, 2012

Just wanted to say that I'm using Jack's at the 3,2,1 ratio and the results are outstanding. The money I save using Jack's allows me to afford a two supplements I really like, H&G's Drip clean and Hygrozyme.

El Cerebro · Jan 12, 2012

Forgive me if this has been covered, I dropped off a few pages back and havent caught up. What ridiculously cheap pH adj products do you guys use?

skywalkerOG · Jan 12, 2012

Cap: Could you take some pics, or perhaps some drawings of your setup? I currently use rockwool w/ drain to waste feeding every other day. Very good system, but rockwool is still very expensive, and sometimes hard to get. If Jacks is working great in your system I might convert mine.

Kcar · Jan 12, 2012

El Cerebro said:
Forgive me if this has been covered, I dropped off a few pages back and havent caught up. What ridiculously cheap pH adj products do you guys use?

Advanced Nutrients up and down. Strong stuff. Only thing they ever got right.

skywalkerOG · Jan 12, 2012

Kcar said:
Advanced Nutrients up and down. Strong stuff. Only thing they ever got right.

x2. I've found with RO & jacks I don't even need it. With CES I was using bottles of the GH line until I switched to Advanced. I'd also imagine the Advanced line would kill any bug you sprayed it on. Leaves a weird residue on my fingers if I forget to wear gloves.

Capulator · Jan 12, 2012

skywalkerOG said:
x2. I've found with RO & jacks I don't even need it. With CES I was using bottles of the GH line until I switched to Advanced. I'd also imagine the Advanced line would kill any bug you sprayed it on. Leaves a weird residue on my fingers if I forget to wear gloves.

Sulfuric acid for pH down

1) Get some on ebay its cheap
2) get a gallon of distilled water.
3) pour out a cup.
4) add carefully one cup of sulfuric acid. WEAR GOGGLE AND GLOVES
5) It gets warm. DOnt panic. let it cool.
6) VOILA you now have a lifetime supply of ph down. very strong.

Capulator · Jan 12, 2012

HydroRocks said:
I have not read the 57 pages of this thread as my time is a bit limited. I apologize as I am sure you have answered this question already, but has anyone tested your products in a Under Current system yet?

I would be interested in testing these nutrients as well as the root inoculates.

We have done product testing professionally since 2005 and have a lab on-site. The only testing we do not do locally ourselves is some of the advanced analysis test which we send off for testing.

We do our own tissue sampling as well as culture test for bacteria/fungi.

Always looking for new products!

Cheers!

I am running jacks in an MPB which is the same principle as a UC. Awesome results. I also put my root pack in there, and yesterday watered in the foliar pack to kill off a few straggling gnats.

HydroRocks · Jan 12, 2012

Sounds good! I will have to order a few packs to try.

Thanks!

HydroRocks · Jan 12, 2012

Capulator said:
Sulfuric acid for pH down

1) Get some on ebay its cheap
2) get a gallon of distilled water.
3) pour out a cup.
4) add carefully one cup of sulfuric acid. WEAR GOGGLE AND GLOVES
5) It gets warm. DOnt panic. let it cool.
6) VOILA you now have a lifetime supply of ph down. very strong.

Do you by chance know the shelf life of PH down using this method?

Capulator · Jan 12, 2012

HydroRocks said:
Do you by chance know the shelf life of PH down using this method?

Indefinitely as long as the cap's on? Not sure. So far about 4 months.

cheaplastic · Jan 13, 2012

Capulator said:
If you get a couple more ingredients, this formula is killing it for me in veg. Haven't seen healthier plants in a loooong time.

jacks hydro: 2 grams/gal
Cal nit: 3 grams/gal
MKP (monopotassium phosphate)- .16 grams/gal
Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)- .5 grams/gal
MOST- .1 grams/gal
CaCl2 (98% off ebay)- .07 grams/gal
epsom salt- .7 grams/ gal

2 part formula

1) hydro, epsom, MKP, K2SO4, MOST in one mix. add to 1 gallon of warm water and mix well.
2) cano3 and cacl2 in the other. add to 1 gal of warm water and mix well.

fill res with RO water.

add 1 first. wait until ppms equalize
add 2

done.

I run this mix at 75% strength and it is perfection.

at what dosage (ml per gallon) do you use for your VEG A and B?

Capulator said:
Some raw salts came in to today.

My new bloom formula is:

mono potassium phosphate @ 0.15 grams/ gal

Potassium sulfate @ 0.16 grams / gal

Jacks hydro @ 3 grams / gal

Jacks MOST @ 0.1 grams / gal (might go to 0.2)

Epsom @ 0.6 grams/ gal

Cal Nitrate @ 2.7 grams per gallon

CaCl2 @ 0.1 grams / gal

this gives me 2.0 EC exactly. This is my peak formula, which I will dilute depending on what week I am in.

The elemental ppms are as follows:

N: 150
P:50
K:200
Ca: 138
Mg: 66
S: 76

The ratios:

N:P:K = 3:1:4 exactly

K:Ca:Mg = 3:2:1 ALMOST exactly.

These are the ratios Cavadge was using.

We will see what the results are.

Current system: custom ebb/flo.

and at what dosage do you use (ml per gallon) for your Bloom mix?

Capulator · Jan 13, 2012

I don't use ml per gallon. I use grams/gal. In those two posts that you quoted I state exactly what I am using for veg and bloom. Hope that helps.

El Cerebro · Jan 13, 2012

Capulator said:
Sulfuric acid for pH down

Thx, this is what i was thinking. What kind of vessel do you mix it in? Are those proportions strong like AN or more dilute like GH?

Anybody have a cheap up solution? (not as crucial obviously)

Capulator · Jan 13, 2012

I used a plastic 1 gallon distilled water fromteh grocery store. POured out a cup ful and added the sulfuric.

It is really strong. 10 mL to take down my system .5 in 130 gallons. I use exactly one drop in one gallon with my RO and it comes out to around 5.5 when I handwater flush.

El Cerebro · Jan 13, 2012

I'm sure this is covered elsewhere, can anyone suggest a thread/source where these co2 levels are discussed? I was running 1500 until late flower for lack of researching it more, sounds like I'm about to change that.

Northone, I assume you mean that coment re fert ppm, or is this a new low-co2 flush method you have going? Okay just kidding..

[edit] forgot to quote, referring to Cap's comment about Spurr, back a page.

cheaplastic · Jan 13, 2012

Capulator said:
I don't use ml per gallon. I use grams/gal. In those two posts that you quoted I state exactly what I am using for veg and bloom. Hope that helps.

Capulator said:
If you get a couple more ingredients, this formula is killing it for me in veg. Haven't seen healthier plants in a loooong time.

jacks hydro: 2 grams/gal
Cal nit: 3 grams/gal
MKP (monopotassium phosphate)- .16 grams/gal
Potassium sulfate (K2SO4)- .5 grams/gal
MOST- .1 grams/gal
CaCl2 (98% off ebay)- .07 grams/gal
epsom salt- .7 grams/ gal

****2 part formula

1) hydro, epsom, MKP, K2SO4, MOST in one mix. add to 1 gallon of warm water and mix well.
2) cano3 and cacl2 in the other. add to 1 gal of warm water and mix well.

fill res with RO water.

add 1 first. wait until ppms equalize
add 2

done.

I run this mix at 75% strength and it is perfection.

**

thanks for the speedy reply!!
i understand that it is grams per gallon, but in the above post regarding your 2 part veg formula, you first mix up the A and B in 2 separate gallons of warm water first?

then with that final 2 part solution do you dose your res? if so, what dosages (dilution rate?)

Snowblind · Jan 13, 2012

skywalkerOG said:
Cap: Could you take some pics, or perhaps some drawings of your setup? I currently use rockwool w/ drain to waste feeding every other day. Very good system, but rockwool is still very expensive, and sometimes hard to get. If Jacks is working great in your system I might convert mine.

I use double stacked hugo in an ebb and flow system. Im using big mamas right now in ebb and flow too as an experiment. I will post pictures of the results of the double stack. It literally blew my mind. No top feed. The buds were unlike any I have ever grown. So big and frosty. Holy freaking crap.

Jacks worked great in the rockwool! I used 3.0 jacks and a little higher cano3. Around 2.44 at times. A little higher N for rockwool.

pugliese63 said:
Just wanted to say that I'm using Jack's at the 3,2,1 ratio and the results are outstanding. The money I save using Jack's allows me to afford a two supplements I really like, H&G's Drip clean and Hygrozyme.

This is great to hear! You might not need the 1 gram of epsom depending on the strain. Mg hungry OG's seem to need a little more Mg. Other strains not so much. A 1/2 gram might work just fine or none at all! Dont be afraid to mix up a batch with a 1/2 gram of epsom to see the results.

Capulator said:
I used a plastic 1 gallon distilled water fromteh grocery store. POured out a cup ful and added the sulfuric.

It is really strong. 10 mL to take down my system .5 in 130 gallons. I use exactly one drop in one gallon with my RO and it comes out to around 5.5 when I handwater flush.

As Cap said be very carefull when doing this and store it safely. Wear goggles, sleaves and gloves. Follow his instructions to a "T". Cap has pointed out but I want to scream...

Always pour acid into water. If water were to be poured into acid, the reaction will be an explosion with dire results....

Your resulting S based ph down is perfect for not adding N or P to your resos!

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

HydroRocks

pugliese63

El Cerebro

skywalkerOG

Kcar

skywalkerOG

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

HydroRocks

HydroRocks

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

cheaplastic

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

El Cerebro

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

El Cerebro

cheaplastic

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Cheap alternatives to overpriced hydroponic nutrients

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

HydroRocks

pugliese63

El Cerebro

skywalkerOG

Kcar

skywalkerOG

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

HydroRocks

HydroRocks

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

cheaplastic

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

El Cerebro

Capulator

likes to smell trees.

El Cerebro

cheaplastic

Snowblind

Kush Mints x Animal Cookie Bx2 Specialist

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